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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Pow wrote: | I am a big fan of TDTESS. One of the issues which bother me was the arbitrary way in which Gort dealt with soldiers.
When Klaatu returns to his ship in order to set up the neutralizing of the earth's power sources, Gort knocks out 2 soldiers standing guard.
When Helen comes to the park to give Gort the message from Klaatu, Gort zaps 2 soldiers & disintegrates them.
Why not render them unconscious as he did the first time?
Doesn't his visor ray beam have a stun setting? |
First of all, no — I don't think the merciless Gort bothers to stun people, because Klaatu said, "At the first sign of agression [the robots] act automatically. The penalty for provoking their actions is too terrible to risk."
Second, when Helen goes to Gort and delivers the "Stand Down" message, Gort is just about to go "globally postal" by doing the terrible thing Klaatu warns us about.
So, even if Gort did have a "stun setting" on that awesome ray, the situation had already escalated to the point where Gort was ready to fry human asses right and left!
The question we might ask ourselves, however, is "Why was Gort so lenient when he first appeared?" He zapped all the weapons, but he spared all the soldiers!
Therefore, even though Gort didn't have a stun setting, he did seem to have the ability to moderate his response towards aggression by doing something less drastic than just "Kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out!" _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: |
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________________________________
We all know that The Day the Earth Stood Still pulled a colossal "cheat" when it allowed Gort to actually walk all the way from the ship to the jail house where Klaatu's body was lying in a cell, then zap a giant hole in the wall, pick up Klaatu, and casually stroll back to ship without anybody noticing him.
Nice trick, eh?
But has anybody ever tried to explain why — when Gort first show up at the jail — there's already a big hole in the cell wall?
("Bud, you're nuts! Gort only burned one hole in the wall.")
Oh, really? Let's give that scene another quick look, shall we? First Gort appears in the ally and opens his visor.
He zaps the wall, and a big hole appears.
He enters the jail cell, and the camera pans a bit to the left . . . revealing what should be the intact wall next to the hole he just made.
But wait a minute . . . what the hell is this?
To the left of the hole Gort just made is . . . another hole?
The mysterious second hole is just as ragged and irregular as the one Gort just made, and beyond it we seem to be looking at a lighted smoke-filled area.
Why is there a second hole? Why is the area beyond the hole filled with smoke? Why can't we see the brick wall in the ally which is visible beyond the first hole.
Somebody help me figure this out! Am I misinterpreting something that just looks like a hole? _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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________________________________
Well, heck, I solved the mystery just a few hours after I made the above post!
I went looking for behind-the-scenes pictures that might help me figure out why there seemed to be two holes in the wall, and I found the picture below. I couldn't find a better version of it, but it's clear enough to show that the "hole" is actually just light from a strong source outside the cell, off to the right.
The light is shining on the left wall of the cell, and the dark boundary is the shadow of the actual hole's left edge, distorted by the fact that the hole is at a 90?? angle to the left wall.
In this photo, Gort is casting a shadow. too. But we don't see his shadow in the movie because Gort walks into the cell before the camera pans to the left and shows the lighted area on the left wall.
Oh, well. It was an fascinating mystery for a few hours. And I did manage to find a few interesting behind-the-scenes shots.
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Clearly this was not the take used in the movie. Poor Lock Martin was in danger of stepping off the ramp!
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Speaking of behind the scenes info, I enjoyed this documentary on the Blu-ray I watched yesterday.
_ Behind The Big Screen : The Day The Earth Stood Still
_________ _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3435 Location: New York
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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If ''the merciless Gort doesn't stun people'' Bud, how come he elects to have his visor beam disintegrate the rifles but not the soldiers holding them at the beginning of the movie?
He could have just as easily zapped the army men as well.
So are there protocols built into him that cover ethics or morals?
Is he an A.I. that made its own conscience decision to destroy the rifles but not the men?
Gort must know that he & Klaatu are on a mission of peace, so why does Gort evidence discretion with the rifles & later the guards he knocks unconscious? Yet has no compunctions about vaporizing the guards later on when Helen arrives at the ship's site?
And why would a truly advanced & apparently peace loving civilization design Gort with only a kill setting to him?
All seems rather arbitrary to me. |
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Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2948 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Possibly.....
A short curcuit in his Gort brain box! |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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________________________________
Some important facts to be considered:
In Gort's initial scene, he responded to Klaatu being wounded and started disarming all the soldiers. Klaatu ordered him to stop, but obviously disarming the soldiers was enough for the Big Guy in that situation.
However, if Klaatu had been killed on the spot . . . look out, momma.
Later, when Klaatu goes to the ship at night, he flashes a message to Gort with Bobby's flashlight. The guards did absolutely nothing to provoke Gort. But Klaatu told Gort to "knock some heads together" . . . and he meant it literally.
However, in the climax Gort detected the murder of the ambassador he'd accompanied to Earth, that was a serious no-no for Gort and his kin — which Klaatu described in the final scene this way (abbreviated here a bit).
Note the key phrases which are underlined.
The universe grows smaller every day, and the threat of aggression by any group, anywhere, can no longer be tolerated. . . . There must be security for all, or no one is secure.
Your ancestors knew this when they made laws to govern themselves and hired policemen to enforce them. . . . For our policemen, we created a race of robots . . . In matters of aggression, we have given them absolute power over us. . . . This power cannot be revoked.
At the first sign of violence, they act automatically against the aggressor. The penalty for provoking their action is too terrible to risk.
Notice Klaatu doesn't actually say the robots will vaporize anybody who commits an act of violence. Although he does say the penalty for provoking their actions is "too terrible to risk", I don't think that means the robots just "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out".
So, in view of the fact that we saw Gort follow direct commands and choose various actions based on different situations — like disarming the soldiers, knocking out the guards, and pausing long enough to let the pretty lady to say a few last words . . . which happened to be "Klaatu barada nikto", fortunately — I'd say Gort had a high level of intelligence.
After all, his creator wouldn't want big, dumb robots lumbering around the galaxy zapping people just for slapping a buddy on the back or performing the heimlich maneuver on some poor guy choking to death!
Seriously, though, since Gort and his Heavy Metal posse have been made judge, jury, and executioner (with "absolute power over us", a phrase which has ominous implications), he'd have to understand a complex situation well enough to know (for example) who was attacking someone and who was just defending himself from an attacker!
However, I think it would be fair to say that Gort had some special instructions concerning Klaatu's safety and just how much crap he had to take them dang Earth folks!
The short version would be something like this: If Klaatu is injured, "explain" to the humans why that's not real smart. And if Klaatu is killed . . . make sure it's the last dumb thing they ever do. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:37 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2948 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:58 am Post subject: |
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There are many elements in this film that are not always obvious on first viewing.
It is not immediately obvious to all viewers that these elements were intended to compare Klaatu to Christ. When Klaatu escapes from the hospital, he steals the clothing of a "Maj. Carpenter," carpentry being the profession Jesus learned from his father Joseph.
He presents himself as John Carpenter, the same initials as Jesus Christ (and borrowing a given name from one of his disciples, John).
His previous actions are misunderstood, and he is eventually killed by military authority.
At the end of the film, Klaatu, having risen from the dead, ascends into the (night) sky.
Other parallels include: his coming to Earth with a message for all mankind; his befriending of a child; possessing wisdom and specialised scientific knowledge beyond any human being; and people being given a sign of his power.
At the very start of the film, one of the radar technicians, upon observing the speed of Klaatu's spaceship, is heard to exclaim, "Holy Christmas!"
Since the release of the film, the phrase "Klaatu barada nikto" has appeared repeatedly in fiction and in popular culture. The Robot Hall of Fame described it as "one of the most famous commands in science fiction," while Frederick S. Clarke of Cinefantastique called it "the most famous phrase ever spoken by an extraterrestrial."
Patricia Neal had a problem saying the phrase, though she was proud of the film overall. "I do think it's the best science fiction film ever made, although I admit that I sometimes had a difficult time keeping a straight face. Michael would patiently watch me bite my lips to avoid giggling and ask, with true British reserve, "Is that the way you intend to play it?"
Edmund H. North, who wrote The Day the Earth Stood Still, also created the alien language used in the film, including the iconic phrase "Klaatu barada nikto". The official spelling for the phrase comes directly from the script and provides insight as to its proper pronunciation.
No translation was given in the film. Philosophy professor Aeon J. Skoble speculates the famous phrase is a "safe-word" that is part of a fail-safe feature used during diplomatic missions such as the one Klaatu and Gort make to Earth. With the use of the safe-word, Gort's deadly force can be deactivated in the event the robot is mistakenly triggered into a defensive posture.
This "safe word" caused Gort to use non-letal responses based upon the severity of the aggression.
Skoble observes that the theme has evolved into a "staple of science fiction that the machines charged with protecting us from ourselves will misuse or abuse their power."
Fantastic Films magazine explored the meaning of "Klaatu barada nikto" in a 1978 article titled The Language of Klaatu. The article, written by Tauna Le Marbe, who is listed as their "Alien Linguistics Editor," attempts to translate all the alien words Klaatu used throughout the film.
In the article the literal translation for Klaatu barada nikto was "Stop Barbarism (I have) death, bind" and the free translation was "I die, repair me, do not retaliate."
The documentary Decoding "Klaatu Barada Nikto": Science Fiction as Metaphor examined the phrase "Klaatu barada nikto" with some of the people involved with The Day the Earth Stood Still.
Robert Wise, director of the film, related a story he had with Edmund North saying North told him, "Well, it's just something I kind of cooked up. I thought it sounded good."
Billy Gray, who played Bobby Benson in the film, said that he thought that the message was coming from Klaatu and that, "barada nikto must mean ... save Earth."
Florence Blaustein, widow of the producer Julian Blaustein, said North had to pass a street called Baroda every day going to work and said, "I think that's how that was born."
Film historian Steven Jay Rubin recalled an interview he had with North when he asked the question, "What is the direct translation of Klaatu barada nikto, and Edmund North said to me 'There's hope for Earth, if the scientists can be reached'
There are differences between this movie and the original short story. In the story, Gort's name is Gnut, the famous phrase Klaatu barada nikto is absent, and the character of Helen Benson does not exist.
The end of the short story has a twist that was not brought out in either movies. The robot WAS the master....Klaatu was the servent.
(Some information from Wikapedia and other sources.)
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Pow wrote: | I am a big fan of TDTESS. One of the issues which bother me was the arbitrary way in which Gort dealt with soldiers.
When Klaatu returns to his ship in order to set up the neutralizing of the earth's power sources, Gort knocks out 2 soldiers standing guard.
When Helen comes to the park to give Gort the message from Klaatu, Gort zaps 2 soldiers & disintegrates them.
Why not render them unconscious as he did the first time?
Doesn't his visor ray beam have a stun setting? |
Gort was through playing Mr. Nice Guy. It was time to kick ass and toast humans! _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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________________________________
I was certain I'd made a post about an interesting trivia item I learned a few years ago concerning this scene from The Day the Earth Stood Still, but I can't seem to find it, so here it is again.
I saw this wonderful movie for the first time on March 3, 1962 when it aired on NBC's Saturday Night at the Movies. The scene shown below was the first of this movie's stunning special effects.
The first time I saw this movie in 1962 I didn't notice the fact that I had actually seen the FX of the saucer over Washington before. It was used in the Twilight Zone episode, To Serve Man.
Here's the interesting part. To Serve Man first aired on Friday night, March 2nd, 1962. And the very next day, March 3rd, TDtESS aired on Saturday Night at the Movies.
What are the odds, eh? _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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While watching this movie recently I read the words we see on the Lincoln Memorial which were read by Klaatu and Bobby in the scene shown below.
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I think that last part of the quote from Lincoln qualifies as a run-on sentence. In fact, I'm not sure what it really means! If I understood it better I might try to punctuate it a bit and clear up the meaning a little!
Here's what we see on screen, with a little bit more at the top that was left out in the scene from the film.
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The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
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I don't think I could actually summarize the message of this excerpt. The first two sentences above make sense, but things get fuzzy after that!
In view of the fact that Klaatu was so moved by Lincoln's words, I'm bothered by the fact that they don't exactly knock my socks off. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2948 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Bud doesn't like the Gettysburg Address?
Heresy, I say, Sir!
I think your problem is due to the clumsy punctuation on the plaque.
The text....as accepted by most scholars reads thus :
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here.
It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.
It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—
that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—
that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—
that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—
and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
That last sentance/paragraph looks like a run on sentence, but when spoken clearly sounds correct. _________________ There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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scotpens Starship Captain
Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 882 Location: The Left Coast
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Gord Green wrote: | A long, complex or compound sentence isn't necessarily a run-on sentence. Heck, a run-on sentence can consist of six words. |
Like I said, I’m not certain that I understand some of what Lincoln intended to say, but perhaps what he meant was my revised version below when he wrote the long last sentence. I had to insert a few words (and remove a few), as well as add punctuation.
_____________________________
It is rather for us the living to be here — dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion.
We here [should be] highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, [so] that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, [and] for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
_____________________________
All I’m saying, gentlemen, is that the revised version seems clear to me.
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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_____________________________
Like I said, I’m not certain that I understand some of what Lincoln intended to say, but perhaps what he meant was similar to the revised version below when he wrote the long last sentence. I had to add and subtract a few words, as well as add punctuation.
_____________________________
It is rather for us to be here — dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion.
We here [should be] highly resolve[d] that these dead shall not have died in vain, [so] that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, [and] for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
_____________________________
All I’m saying, gentlemen, is that my revised version seems clearer to me personally. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sun May 27, 2018 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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orzel-w Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1876
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Gord's post shows the quote as it actually appears on the monument; with the dashes included.
And Lincoln was not saying, "It is rather for us to be here, dedicated to the great task...". He was saying, "It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task...", meaning, "It is rather for us to be dedicated here to the great task...". He was merely using a bit of verbal flourish, as in "to boldly go" instead of "to go boldly".
~~~~~~
Edit: Changed "hyphens" to "dashes". _________________ ...or not...
WayneO
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Last edited by orzel-w on Sun May 27, 2018 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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scotpens Starship Captain
Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 882 Location: The Left Coast
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Bud Brewster wrote: |
All I’m saying, gentlemen, is that my revised version seems clearer to me personally. |
Well, Lincoln's words are perfectly clear to me.
And "We here should be highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain . . ." makes no sense. "We here should be highly resolved" makes sense. But it's no improvement on old Abe. |
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