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Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982)
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Maurice
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
I had read in an interview with Nick Meyers back in the day (I don't recall now exactly where...so I may have this mixed up.)

You'll notice that that scene with Khan's little son was the baby crawling to the TRANSPORTER ! The tyke was to be saved at the last minute with Khan sending him to the Enterprise.

At the last minute in the filming it was decided that the death of Spock was the important element in the ending of the film and all reference to the son were editted out of the final cut so as to not complicate the issue.

The baby was gonna go kerplow along with the Reliant.

Here are the references to it from the screenplay, along with some photos.

18 ANGLE - THEIR POV 18

A RUINED SERIES OF MAN-MADE STRUCTURES, half buried in
sand...

As Chekov looks at the porthole, a face suddenly looks
back! It is the face of a CHILD! The Apparition
scares the daylights out of Chekov -- and us. He
screams.

TERRELL
(continuing)
What is it?

He comes clumsily over --

CHEKOV
A face! I saw -- it was like a
child --



In the subsequent action they found the child alone in the cargo bays. Terrell and Chekov pop from one compartment of the cargo bays to another in the span on a cut because they trimmed out all the footage featuring the Rugrat of Khan and hence the business of them going from one to the other went with it. When Terrell is kneeling to the lower left as Chekov says "We've got to get out of here, now!", he's not looking at the eel tank (which is in the previous room), he's looking at the kid off-camera (they possibly optically enlarged the frame to crop the kid out). If you watch his mouth he doesn't say, "What about the tricorder?" he says, "What about the child?"

Then at the end...

213A INT. RELIANT TRANSPORTER ROOM 213A

There sits the Genesis torpedo: lights start blinking
in response. As we watch, the CHILD we met on Ceti Alpha
walks to the torpedo and smiles at the lights.




(Note the stuffed animal behind the Genesis torpedo, probably used to entice the kid towards the prop.)



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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

A magnificent post, Maurice! Very interesting. Very Happy

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for clearing that up. Your post is magnificent!

Perhaps Meyer was referring to the idea that the child on the transporter with the Genesis device would become part of the new matrix and become . . . (?)

In any case, Thank you for clearing this up!
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bulldogtrekker
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

William Shatner believes Leonard Nimoy cooked up Spock's Star Trek death for leverage
Bryan Alexander, USA TODAY

William Shatner has developed a cynical view of Mr. Spock's (Leonard Nimoy) dramatic death in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Shatner believes his longtime friend Nimoy,who died in 2015,plotted to dramatically kill off his beloved character in 1982's Wrath of Khan, only to have the half-Vulcan return in the next movie, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.

He suspects Nimoy schemed Spock's spectacular demise and return with producer Harve Bennett for leverage, allowing Nimoy to insist upon directing The Search for Spock.


Quote:
I believe it was all planned? I now believe (Nimoy) and Harve cooked this up, says Shatner, who had this realization long after Wrath of Khan...

I suddenly realized that I, as well as many other people,had been taken in by the death of Spock," the actor says. "Leonard was so marvelous at working the territory that he got a directing job out of it.

Shatner says he was "genuinely moved" filmingthe famed Wrath of Khan scene in which Spock,dying from radiation poisoning after saving the Enterprise from villain Khan (Ricardo Montalbn), says a final goodbye.

Quote:
"I was thinking my good friend Nimoy is in essence saying goodbye to the whole part," Shatner says. "No one told me they were thinking otherwise."

The Captain Kirk actor, who himself later directed a Star Trek film (1989's Star Trek V: The Final Frontier), has no hard feelings about Nimoy's alleged maneuver.

Quote:
But I would have enjoyed being in on it, he adds. I get the secrecy. But it's all great.

Wrath of Khan director Nicholas Meyer stands by the historical account that Nimoy asked to have Spock killed off because he truly intended to leave the franchise and the character.
Here's what happened," Meyer says. "Leonard was very ambivalent about doing another Star Trek movie. And Harve Bennett lured him with the promise of a terrific death scene, which (Shatner) and he played so touchingly.

But as Wrath of Khan came together, it was clear that Paramount had a hit on its hands. And Leonard was starting to feel really good (about the movie) and was thinking whether he was making some kind of a mistake, says Meyer. So the studio insisted on leaving the door open for a Spock return.

I fought it," Meyer says. I thought it was unforgivable to take people who were so wrapped up in this character and sort of dry hustle them and then say, Oh, we were just kidding.' But in the end, it was a battle that I lost."

Meyer added key scenes, including one of the Enterprise shooting Spock coffin onto the regenerated planet Genesis among flourishing plant life, pointing to a possible return.
We left dangling the prospect of hope. And Star Trek is about hope," says Meyer. "That' s the truth. It was not always planned that (Spock) was going to come back.

Ultimately, Meyer is happy with how everything played out. Nimoy agreed to come back to the franchise if he could direct the third film.

In retrospect," says Meyer, they were right, and I was wrong.

Full story and photos:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2017/09/07/william-shatner-believes-leonard-nimoy-cooked-up-spocks-star-trek-death-leverage/619502001/


Last edited by bulldogtrekker on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That may very well be true, but with Leonard not able to confirm or deny the point is rather moot.

Perhaps this is the point of contention between him and Shatner in Nimoy's last years that led to their estrangement.

In any regard Shatner should keep his speculations to himself.
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bulldogtrekker
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree. Shatner sounds nutty and needs to shut up.
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bulldogtrekker
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Space Seed," Khan Forever Changed VHS Releases
John and Maria Jose Tenuto, Star Trek

Now that Star Trek: Discovery has broken records in the entertainment frontier of streaming television, it seems appropriate to reflect on past examples in which Star Trek played an important role in popularizing new home entertainment options and technologies. One of the most significant example is how “Space Seed” and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan helped energize the home VHS library phenomenon.



During the late 1970s and early 1980s, VHS, Betamax, and CED players were becoming increasingly common. However, due to the cost of the actual tapes, most people could not afford to purchase their own copies, and thus rented films on VHS or Betamax. A single blank tape was $20 or more during the 1970s, and a tape with a film on it was usually $80 and up. To rent a film at a video store usually required a deposit commiserate with the cost a film, or at least the placement of a credit card on file, due to the high costs of the tapes. And many stores only allowed the rental of only one or two tapes at a time.

Paramount ran a unique experiment during the summer of 1982 in an effort to determine if there might be interest by consumers in purchasing films on VHS and Betamax -- to own. Such an experiment would require two things: offering TV shows or films directly to consumers that would be popular enough to entice people to buy them, and a lower price tag. Enter “Space Seed” and The Wrath of Khan....

....Indeed, lightning struck again when STII was made available to the home market at $39.95, a savings of about $40 compared to the then-available Star Wars films and the previously available Star Trek: The Motion Picture. There was an extensive advertising campaign, complemented by a Paramount-sponsored retailer contest through which store owners assembled creative STII displays....

.....This success was important because Star Trek played an important role in popularizing the idea of home video libraries. “Space Seed” gave Paramount the confidence to eventually offer every TOS episode for purchase, a precursor to today's DVD, Blu-ray and streaming collections. Raiders of the Lost Ark and STII demonstrated that movie fans buy their favorite films to watch again and again whenever they wished – the beginnings of the on-demand experience common today.

Star Trek, as we all know, reshaped the entertainment, pop culture and science landscapes in many ways. And, as proven by “Space Seed” and STII, and later The Next Generation (with its success as a syndicated first-run drama), Star Trek also impacted how Hollywood does business.


BDT: My first movie VHS purchase was Star Trek The Motion Picture (Special Longer Edition) as seen on ABC-TV and available at a low price.

FULL STORY:
http://www.startrek.com/article/space-seed-khan-forever-changed-vhs-releases
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I posted a fan-made trailer for The Last Starfighter (1984) on the thread for that movie, and the trailer had this amusing message at the beginning.






I wondered just how true the claim at the bottom was, so I made a list of 1980s science fiction films that I thought were good, just to see if that decade really did produce a significant number of “the best” sci-fi movies.

This movie is on the list I made. I know what I like about the film (and a few things I don’t like), but I’d like to hear the pros and cons from the rest of you folks.

So, what do you think, guys? Cool

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Eadie
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saavik makes kissy face towards her dad!:



Khan and Lieutenant Marla McGivers baby!:









Kirk's apartment window SFX BTS:



Cut sick bay scene after Spock mind merges with Dr. McCoy:


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Bogmeister
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

____________
______________

_________Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan Trailer


___________

___________

This isn’t really a sequel to Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979), which was the first Trek film to hit the big screen after the famed TV series, Star Trek (or TOS). Star Trek II is more like a re-start.

Actually, it’s a sequel to the TOS episode, Space Seed, which introduced us to Khan, Kirk’s greatest nemesis. Everyone, from the studio to the fans, was dissatisfied with how the 1979 film turned out, and many placed the blame on Gene Roddenberry. New producer Harve Bennett checked out all the classic episodes and . . . well, guess which episode made the strongest impression on him?

Bennett wrote the first treatment for the 2nd Trek film.

_
_
_

The director, Nicholas Meyer, soon came on-board and assmbled the final script, stitching together the best elements of various written attempts. Meyer was known as a good writer. His previous effort and 1st directing job was Time After Time (1979), a classy time travel tale, and the resulting screenplay was the equivalent of a great page-turner of an adventure novel.

_

The story takes place about 15 years after Captain Kirk had marooned Khan and his followers on a desolate planet in Space Seed, which means it jumps ahead a good dozen years after the events of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

Therefore, our well-known characters — especially Kirk — are feeling the drawbacks of middle age. Kirk would soon be feeling regrets, as well. He and his usual officers (except Chekov) accompany a bunch of cadets on a routine training mission, in the also-aging Enterprise.

Chekov, meanwhile, is now first officer aboard the starship Reliant. He and his captain (Paul Winfield) make the mistake of beaming down, in ignorance, to Ceti Alpha 5, Khan’s current home.

_
_

And that’s how you begin a rip-roaring space epic of revenge and rebirth. Only about 20 (a third) of Khan’s followers are still alive, but that’s enough for Khan to take over the Reliant.

For those unfamiliar with Khan, he and his people are genetically-enhanced specimens of humanity, both physically and intellectually. The actor, Ricardo Montalban, did what Shatner and Nimoy should have done prior to the 1st Trek film; he watched the original episode to re-capture Khan’s frame of mind.

This worked well.

The older Khan seethes with superhuman rage and determination, and Montalban electrifies the screen just as he did in the original episode. His becomes one of the most memorable villains of the eighties — grand, tragic, and certainly larger-than-life.

Shatner, as Kirk, also rose to the challenge, and his confrontations with Khan — even through a viewscreen or a communicator — are sensational. The scene where Khan orders another character to execute Kirk is both Director Nicholas Meyer and the actors at their very best!

_
_

Besides Khan, we were all introduced to another memorable character, Lt. Saavik (Kirstie Alley), a female Vulcan/Romulan who lends an exotic allure to the proceedings. This was Alley’s film debut (the character’s ancestry wasn’t spelled out in the film, but was in the novel adaptation).

Meyer’s approach to the whole story was to transplant a sense of adventure on the high seas to outer space. Kirk was the aging yet still formidable ship’s captain (though he was really an admiral) matched against Khan, the aged yet dangerous, maniacal space pirate. The duel and the very real sense of history informing most scenes made it all quite exciting.

Meyer also had Khan quoting passages from the old novel Moby Dick in many scenes, adding to the epic stature of the conflict. These also called to mind better TOS episodes such as The Doomsday Machine and Obsession.

_
_
_
_

Meyer also lent a more militaristic flavor to Starfleet, moving away from the feel of TOS and the first film, though it was suitable for the action aspects here. We see some lengthy battles in outer space, more than was ever viewed before, and this pre-configured future space battles in the films.

The uniforms also changed sharply from the previous film, now stressing red. (The color of battle?)

Spock seemed to embrace his human half by this point. Both Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelley were back to their old selves, albeit older.

However, this wasn't perfect. The other regulars, except Chekov, were shortchanged due to the introductions of many new characters. Besides the ones already mentioned, there was Kirk’s old flame (Bibi Besch), Kirk’s son (Merritt Butrick) and Khan’s henchman (Judson Scott, who was uncredited due to a demand by Scott’s agent at the time).

James Doohan did have a good scene involving his nephew, (Ike Eisenmann) — whose backstory, like Saavik’s, was not detailed in the film but in the novel.

_
_
_

When looking at the larger picture of the entire Trek franchise, we also see that this film established a pattern for the remaining films in moving away from the central theme of exploration. There was a focus and a tone to TOS which was never captured in the film. They concentrated on intrigue, chases, thrills, and fun.

The notion of strange new ideas and new ways of looking at reality was lost, a by-product of the first film’s poor reception and Meyer’s unfamiliarity with Star Trek fundamentals.

_

In fact, due to Meyer’s approach, the feeling that I was in a future time was less convincing than when I watched the classic episodes, as though 20th-century persons & attitudes were simply transported into the 23rd century in the film versions of Trek. We got the old characters back in this one but the ideas and futuristic scope were lost.

This was, perhaps, unavoidable — it’s what happens when the format is changed from weekly episodes to big films every 2 or 3 years. For good or bad, Meyer’s influence dominated all the films with the TOS characters, especially the 3rd & 4th films, which formed an informal trilogy with this one.

_
_

Still, for this one film, they got almost everything right in terms of providing entertainment and even a pulse-pounding experience. They even threw in the concept of a Genesis Device, which provided a very early view of computer FX in a startling sequence — and the closest we got to new concepts in this one.

The climax was a shocker for many fans, but pointed towards the plot of the next film, Star Trek III:The Search For Spock (1984). Nimoy intended for [b]Star Trek II[/b] to be his final essay of the role, but he enjoyed working on the film so much, he changed his mind. And, of course, he ended up directing the next film, as well.

______________
_

I must admit, this remains my favorite Star Trek film. For what it set out to do — presenting a bombastic, thrilling, and nearly mythical adventure — it succeeded brilliantly. James Horner’s score is terrific, fitting the tone perfectly.

They tried to copy this film’s style in some of the later films; in some, such as Star Trek First Contact (1996), it worked out pretty well. In others, like Star Trek Nemesis (2002), not so much — it got a bit stale by then.

BoG's Score: 9 out of 10



Extra Trek Trivia: for details on deleted or excised scenes, such as backstories on Saavik and Scotty's nephew, click here > http://movie-memorabilia-emporium.blogspot.com/2013/09/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-cut-scenes.htm


_____ It is very cold.... in spaaace - Wrath of Khan


___________



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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

This is undoubtedly Bogmeister's most extensive and comprehensive review — and it certainly treats us to a fine gallery of images from the movie, all carefully laid out for maximum effect.

I'm impressed. Cool

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Pow
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watched a very interesting recent speech made by Nick Meyer. Fascinating, literate, and intelligent gentleman...and rather modest and good humored.

Discussing ST:TWoK, he said that in his opinion the most interesting villains are the ones who do have a legitimate point.

"Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on our progress."

Khan wasn't wrong to be so angry and bitter regarding Kirk's mishandling of the marooned Botany Bay supermen & superwoman.

Not that one can approve of how Khan went about his seeking revenge.
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Krel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
"Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on our progress."

Khan wasn't wrong to be so angry and bitter regarding Kirk's mishandling of the marooned Botany Bay supermen & superwoman.

Not that one can approve of how Khan went about his seeking revenge.

Actually it would have been Star Fleet's responsibility to keep an eye on Khan and his people.

There is no way that Star Fleet didn't know about Khan, because of his takeover of the Enterprise. Even if Kirk wanted to keep it a secret, there is no way that SOMEONE on the Enterprise wasn't going to talk. Given Khan's past history, there is no way that Star Fleet shouldn't have at least parked a couple of spy satellites in orbit.

I thought that I wrote this earlier, but looking back over the last pages I didn't see it.

I can see why the scenes with the toddler were taken out of the movie. It would not really be a feel good moment for the audience with the death of a child or children by Genesis Device.

I haven't seen the movie in a long time, so I don't remember, but was it was ever said what Khan did with the Reliant's crew?

David.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I haven't seen the movie in a long time, so I don't remember, but was it was ever said what Khan did with the Reliant's crew?

Considering Kirk was cutting down the bodies of Marcus's staff from the "rafters" I would assume Kahn transported them into space. He left the bodies in the lab to "inspire" Kirk to come after him.
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Pow
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't recall if they had any dialogue in the film as to what happened to the Reliant's crew?

In the novel, Khan marooned them on Ceti Alpha V.
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