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Using science to create a "smart" border wall!

 
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:41 pm    Post subject: Using science to create a "smart" border wall! Reply with quote

________________________________

I’m tired of Trump telling me a border wall would be the best way to deal with the immigration problem . . . but I’m also tired of the anti-Trump faction saying it wouldn’t work! Shocked

Neither side seems to have the facts needed to be convincing. After all, this is an ambitious engineering challenge, and it needs solid engineering and sound scientific innovations to solve it.

The articles I’ve read don’t make a strong case that a wall would NOT be effective.

And there’s no question that something as formidable as a large wall that couldn’t be scaled without great effort would discourage the poor desperate immigrants who risk death to enter the United States. My chief reason for thinking a wall might be the answer is that it would save the lives of so many men, women, and children who die each year making the trek across the desert. Sad

What I’m suggesting is that even if Trump’s wall is less than completely effective, its very existence would save lives by discouraging people from thinking that if they just walked far enough and got into the U.S., they might be granted amnesty and escape the horrors they face in their own countries.

So, what I want to see on this thread are intelligent ideas for an effective border wall that would discourage these dangerous attempts to cross the border. And the smarter we are when this wall is designed, the more effective it will be.

In other words, a really tall wall is not as good as a really intelligent one!
_____________________________________

I think the solution to this problem was actually suggested by The Great Wall of China, built during the Ming Dynasty (1368–1644).

Now, before somebody starts thinking I’m a damn fool for suggesting that a brick wall 25 feet high would be an effective barrier, we should consider the true nature of the Great Wall and why it really was effective, centuries ago.



The Great Wall was much more than just a stone barrier.

It was a series of sentry towers connected by a raised “road” that allowed the sentries to move along the wall between the towers. The wall was an unbroken connection between numerous look-out points, troop barracks, and garrison stations. It was equipped with signaling methods which used smoke and fire,

And the Great Wall also served as a transportation corridor over very long distances.

Consider the fact that the 5,500-mile-long wall was built over 400 years ago. The technology in that era used primitive means to implement extremely intelligent concepts.

Today we have advanced technology to accomplish the same things in a much more efficient manner.

Remember, the key to the Great Wall’s success was its two-fold purpose: it served to impede the progress of invaders, and it provided sentries who detected the invaders and sounded the alarm.

21st Century technology can accomplish these tasks with far fewer human sentries.

A sixty-foot-high steel fence equipped with hi-tech motion sensors and surveillance cameras would be able to alert border guard personnel in seconds when attempts to breach the barrier took place. Drones could be dispatched to the area within minutes to survey the situation in detail. Border guards could depart from stations along the wall in helicopters and reach the scene within a reasonable amount of time.








Along the wall there could be tear gas grenades launchers which would be activated by the border guards when the drones and surveillance cameras revealed attempts to scale the wall. Obviously this would NOT be done unless the individuals were adult males. Women and children would not be subjected to this defensive measure.

If the wall is made of steel slates (instead of the concrete which President Trump seems to prefer), each section could be selectively electrified for brief periods, when necessary. The charge would be low enough to be unpleasant, but not injurious. In fact, this could be an automatic function, controlled by computers which detected intruders, using video surveillance and motion detectors.






Numerous signs posted along the Mexican side of the wall would warn intruders not to risk the electric shocks.

What I’m describing is a modern version of The Great Wall of China's efforts to (a) impede the progress of invaders, (b) alert the other defensive personnel when this occurred, and (c) apply defensive measures when needed.

Folks, I’m just offering a few suggestions that came to me while writing this post. I’m sure the full list of possibilities would dazzle us all.

My point is that Donald J. Trump is certainly not the brightest leader we’ve ever had, so he probably hasn’t considered the real potential of his beloved campaign promise for a “big beautiful wall” along the southern border.

But if our politicians would allocate the necessary funds to qualified scientists and engineers who are at least as smart as I am, we might be able to solve the problem caused by those poor desperate immigrants who are killing themselves to get to America, along with the thousands of illegal aliens being detained by the authorities.

This is a humanitarian problem, and it needs a solution that applies intelligence and imagination. I hope I’m not the only one who has both those qualities! Shocked

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud, some of your ideas were also incorporated in the construction of Hadrian's Wall that separated Hibernia (Scotland) from the rest of Brittannia.

A physical sea to sea wall would NOT be a practical solution, although in certain areas (Largely unpopulated and desolate.) it may be the best answer.

A combination of methods as you suggest just might do the necessary job.

One trick often stated is that immigrants built this nation, and we are all the descendants of immigrants (even the Amerindians immigrated here between 20 and 12 thousand years ago). In the past immigrants were required to be healthy, sponsored, and not to be dependent on the taxpayers. Unfortunately there were other racist quota requirements thrown in the mix.

However, one thing I think most reasonable citizens would agree on is that real immigration requires some control and regulation. I would ask anyone proposing "open boarders" if they lock their doors at night or do they leave them open just in case some homeless person would like to take a nap on their couch or grab a snack from their fridge. I think our Nation deserves the same respect as we give to ourselves.

Surely there are conditions in countries around the world that might encourage their citizens to wish to come to America. But just like we shouldn't be the world's policeman we shouldn't be their sole sanctuary. Those bad conditions will not improve if everyone runs away from them.

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Concerning the claim some folks make that a significant portion of our southern board already has effective barricades, I found an article which refutes that.
________________________________

How much of the border already has a wall or a fence?

Roughly one-third of the U.S.-Mexico line, or 654 miles, has security fencing, according to extensive government reporting on the subject.

In some ways, that number is misleading: There are just 354 miles of pedestrian barriers. The rest is vehicle barriers — low-lying posts designed to stop cars and trucks.

"Vehicle fencing has been effective in slowing and prohibiting drive throughs, but vehicle fencing is not designed to slow or deter illegal entrants from entering or smuggling contraband,” a 2017 report from the Government Accountability Office states.

Put another way, more than 80 percent of the boundary has no man-made obstacle to stop people crossing on foot. Some segments seem truly wide open. The Border Patrol’s Big Bend Sector in Texas covers 510 miles of border and has only 5 miles of fence.

Perhaps as important as the amount of fencing is its effectiveness.

Where they exist, fences do deter some crossers and slow down others. And modern pedestrian fencing, usually with tall steel bollards, is more effective than older styles. The GAO report concluded crossers breached “legacy” pedestrian fencing at an average rate of 82 breaches per fence mile, compared with an average of 14 breaches per fence mile of modern pedestrian fencing.

But even the 18-foot-tall steel barriers can be scaled in seconds by a reasonably athletic person. And makeshift ladders are common.

The GAO report concluded that agents find pedestrian fencing in urban areas effective at pushing illicit activity out of town. However, the government “cannot measure the contribution of fencing to border security operations along the southwest border
[/color]
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So, our president's repeated claims that construction on his "big beautiful wall" has already commenced in certain areas, and that large sections are already completed, is completely false.

But to me this just means we really need to start from scratch and design the "smart wall" I described above.

We need a very tall, sturdy structure wherever it's possible, supported by billions of dollars in hi-tech augmentation. The entire border would be monitored by a large contingency of border agents who are equipped to monitor a complex surveillance system.

Being able to quickly respond to intruders which the system detects is a key component. Permanent border patrol stations need to be positioned along the border, and they should be equipped with a sufficient number of drones, helicopters, and ground vehicles to quickly transport the border agents to locations where illegal crossings are detected.

If border security is really as important as Trump has stated, and if a wall like he wants would cost as much as several reports have stated, then the measures I've described would probably be cheaper and more effective.

Here's what the New York Times reported.
________________________________

[A report released to the senate] said the border wall could cost nearly $70 billion to build and $150 million a year to maintain. An internal report by the Department of Homeland Security said the wall could cost about $21.6 billion, not including maintenance.
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Surely we can do what I've proposed for the amounts given above.

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

More thoughts on the "smart border wall".

We'll need roads that parallel the wall to give the inspection-and-maintenance crews easy access to every section, and to provide border agents a way to quickly reach locations where wall breaches are occurring.

In fact, there should be roads on both sides, because the maintenance crews will encounter damaged areas on the Mexican side caused by border crossing attempts. And some of the hi-tech surveillance equipment will be on the Mexican side as well.






Hopefully there are ways to protect this equipment from efforts to damage it, but border crossers will make determined efforts to disable these systems using explosives and firearms.

Obviously the wall will have to include gates at regular intervals so that the border agent's vehicles can cross over to the Mexican side and make repairs, service equipment, and apprehend suspects.






When I had breakfast at my favorite restaurant (Phat Daddy's Cafe) a few days ago, I mentioned my border wall ideas to a friendly waitress named Erin (we chat quite a lot when I eat there).

She was very interested, and she had some fascinating ideas. After I described the extensive monitoring system which includes high definition surveillance cameras, she suggested that the video feed from all those cameras should be permanently available on the internet!



_________


Allowing the entire world to see how comprehensive the surveillance system has become would demonstrate just how prepared America is to deal with anyone attempting an illegal crossing.

And the American people would see first hand just how the billions of tax payer dollars were being spent to secure the border.

An additional benefit would be the way the people in Mexico and other South American countries would be awed by the vast coverage and the 24/7 surveillance. This would be a very effective way to discourage the dangerous attempts to enter America illegally, thereby saving the lives of these desperate people who sometimes die while making the hazardous journey! Sad

And since this entire system would be deterring attempts to enter illegally, America would have fewer illegal aliens to process and detain.

The news media will love this practice as well, because it would give them real-time images of border crossing incidents!






Enthusiastic "wall watchers" all over the country will spend hours scrolling through the images from hundreds of cameras, hoping to spot something happening. Whenever they do, they could call hotlines at CNN, FOX, and MSNBC, who could then begin covering the incident before border agents even arrive! Very Happy

Social media like Facebook would light up with messages about incidents occurring in specific sections, so that the wall watcher could tune in and enjoy the drama. Very Happy

In other words, we can make the American people part of the on-going monitoring process. The border wall wouldn't just be a tall steel barricade — it would be a figurative "Wall of American Eyes", with our citizens being constantly vigilant.






On a lighter note, here's a wacky suggestion.

What if we DID get Mexico to "pay for the wall" by selling them the lower portions of the states along the border? It would reduce the length of the U.S./Mexican boarder by straightening it out! Laughing






Admittedly the folks who live in those areas wouldn't be too keen on this idea. But according to President Trump, he's going to invoke immanent domain to take the property the wall needs to occupy.

But that's okay, because Trump stated that the government workers currently not being paid due to the shutdown are his "biggest fans" concerning the border wall, because they'd rather have border security than paychecks!

Perhaps all those folks in the southern parts of Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico who are required to move north across the "new southern border" of the U.S. won't mind loosing their property and being forced to relocate.
Wink
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Just to show that imaginative people can have fun coming up with both serious and humerus ideas, here's another whimsical idea for the border wall that Trump thinks we need so badly. Very Happy

First, watch the video below of Sarah Huckabee Sanders being busted by Chris Wallace on (wait for it . . . wait for it . . . ) FOX News when she tried to spout a blatant lie by claiming that over 4,000 known terrorist have been apprehended while trying to enter the U.S. illegally from Mexico.

Annnk! Wrong! Twisted Evil

Chris Wallace told her flat out that the 4,000 terrorist she was referring to were apprehended at (wait for it . . . wait for it . . . ) AIRPORTS!

Not by crossing the southern border. Rolling Eyes

Furthermore, in July 2017 the State Department issued a statement saying that “no credible information that any member of a terrorist group has traveled through Mexico to gain access to the United States.”

So . . . why the hell do we need a $20 billion (plus) wall?
Rolling Eyes

Fox Host GRILLS Sarah Huckabee Sanders For Lying About Border Wall


__________


But in the interest of offering something positive to this discuss, here's a new idea the Commander in Chief might like. If he can't get enough money to build a permanent wall thousand of miles long, how about building one hundred movable walls, each of which is one mile long?

(Huh?! Shocked )

Here's my idea. First we shorten and straighten the southern border of the U.S. by selling a few million useless acres of desert to Mexico so that the NEW border looks like the blue line below.






Then we build parallel railroad tracks along the entire length of the new southern border.





And finally, we build hundreds of railroad cars that have sections of steel panels erected vertically on top.

In other words, like this.






Presto! A movable border wall that can be dispatched to the areas that need it, based on the expert judgement of border patrol agents who closely monitor the attempts by illegal immigrants to enter the U.S., using all those hi-tech means I described in my earlier post! Very Happy

If each train is one mile long, we can put groups of them end-to-end to form a wall that stretches several hundred miles!

Cool idea, huh? Cool

If that sounds like a small amount, remember that currently we only have 354 miles of pedestrian barriers along the 2,000-mile border, so the movable "train barriers" would increase that amount by almost 100%.

Admittedly we'll have to relocate those 354 miles of barriers back to the new southern border . . . or we just leave them there to rust away, because (for the most part) they never been very effective anyway. Rolling Eyes

But the true beauty of my concept is that the movable sections of wall can be sent to the areas where they're needed the most!

Why is that a good thing? Because, as I just said, the existing sections of wall are largely ineffective. They can be circumvented by illegal aliens just by going over the walls or around the walls — or digging tunnels under them!

But since the train tracks run along the border and right past the sections of border wall we choose to erect on the new southern border, the maintenance and expansion of the border walls in various areas can be achieved with the help of these special trains.

Because the newly establish southern border has those long straight sections, these train can travel very fast, crossing hundreds of miles in short periods of time. Unlike normal train routes, they don't have to slow down for cities, towns, and rural roads that have RR crossings.

These special trains will be equipped to deliver new sections of wall to the areas that need them, and then their "cargo" of wall sections can be replenished at the special border wall train stations along the tracks that parallel the border.






Since the "double train tracks" allow these border wall trains to run in both directions — with junctions that join the east-to-west and west-to-east tracks — each train can easily move east or west to get to where it's needed, switching tracks at the junctions.

(Dr. Sheldon Cooper is right. Trains are cool.) Cool

And since we'll have this vast railroad system along the southern border, it doesn't have to be limited to these "border wall trains"! Very Happy

We can also have other trains running along this route, such as "detainee trains" which pick up illegal aliens who have been apprehended and need to be transported to detention centers along the border.

But hey, let's not stop there! Why not have passenger and freight trains that travel back and forth along the southern border and stimulate commerce between cities along the route, as well as between the U.S. and Mexico too?






Wouldn't that be a great thing for all concerned?

Of course it would! Very Happy
________________________________

If you like any of my imaginative ideas, please say so in a reply below. If you want to point out the reasons why these ideas won't work, please do so! I know they aren't really practical, but they're fun to debate. And stimulating discussion with intelligent objections gives us all a chance to debate the concepts.

For God's sake, that's why I originally created All Sci-Fi, way back in 2007! I don't want everybody to AGREE with me, I want people who can stimulate my desperate need for debates I can win . . . or loose! Shocked

I enjoy the debates either way! Very Happy

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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add Solar panels and batteries to take advantage of all that Sunshine!
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

That's a good idea, Butch! Thanks. Very Happy

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

The debate between the Democrats and President Trump about the border wall is frustrating, because they both speak in such vague terms. No wonder neither side can come up with a compromise!

Many areas near population centers already have sections of wall, but other areas are just too desolate, rugged, and uneven to permit the construction of wall sections.

The vast majority of the border from east Texas at the Gulf, to the western shore of California, falls into that second category. Watch the video.


__ US-Mexico border wall faces tough Texas terrain


__________



And I recently learned that in many areas along the Texas border (which is defined by the Rio Grande) will place the wall well inland, rather than right on the border.

That means the land owned by hundreds of Texas citizens (along with at least one Texas State Park) would end up being outside the wall, on the Mexican side! Shocked

In fact, putting the wall "right on the border" is impossible. Here's why (according to Wikipedia).
________________________________

According to the International Boundary and Water Commission, the continental border follows the middle of the Rio Grande—according to the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo between the two nations, "along the deepest channel" (also known as the thalweg)—from its mouth on the Gulf of Mexico a distance of 2,020 kilometers (1,260 mi) to a point just upstream of El Paso and Ciudad Juárez
________________________________

So, the wall between Texas and Mexico would have to be smack the middle of the river for it to be "right on the border".






I was just kidding when I said the southern border should look like this —





— but when you watch the video above and see the hundreds of twist and turns the Rio Grande makes (a lot more than the map of the border shows above) you realize that trying to build the wall "right along the border" would add a few hundred miles to the length, even if the entire area was a flat as Kansas!







Trump keeps asking for "a wall", rarely saying anything more than that. He needs to clarify just what he means. We all think he might have finally realized that "sections" of wall can only be built in certain areas because of the landscape.

The Democrats (Pelosi and Schumer) are equally vague. They keep saying, "No, there will be no wall!", even though everybody understands that new sections of wall do in fact need to be built in some areas, and old sections need to be improved.

In a sane and rational world, the Democrats should offer Trump his $5 billion for "border security, which includes border wall improvements", with the provision that qualified experts would work with Congress to determine exactly where these improvements were needed.

Unfortunately this the insane and irrational world of politics, so these crazy people keep dancing around and wasting time, while 800,000 government workers face hard times because they aren't be paid!

In conclusion, folks, Trump's border wall is as much a fantasy as some of my deliberately wild ideas, like the New Land Unknown in Antarctica and the secret Martian civilization on the Red Planet. Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I found this brief-but-intriguing article at —



— about just one awesome piece of technology that blows Trump's ridiculous coast-to-coast wall out of the water.

Oh brother, did I call this one right or what? Cool

And if you think he's finally realized that one long wall is just as impossible as riding a tornado from Kansas to The Land of Oz, I respectfully submit that your mother was a member of the Lollipop League and your daddy was in the Lollipop Guild.






This is just another bit of proof that our flamboyant president spends all his time lying his ass off and watching his favorite (fake) news network, FOX, instead of listening to people who could tell him that wasting billions of dollars to stick up rusting steel barriers across hundreds of miles of desert along the southern border is dumber than putting Tabasco sauce on a Hot Fudge Sunday! Rolling Eyes

Read the article, folks. I'll bet you $5 billion dollars Trump hasn't and never will. Very Happy

________________________________

High-tech border wall plan on display at CES

The same technology used in self-driving cars is being touted as a potential high-tech solution to the US border wall conundrum—with some added benefits.

At least one startup at the Consumer Electronics show is showcasing how Lidar, a laser-based detection system widely used in autonomous vehicles, could be deployed along the US-Mexico border at a far lower cost than a physical wall or fence, and with fewer environmental impacts.






Quanergy Systems, among a handful of tech firms working on Lidar border security, is showing to CES attendees its technology being deployed in pilot projects on the India-Pakistan frontier as well as a small section of the southern US border.

"We offer a solution that is more capable than a physical wall," said Louay Eldada, chief executive and co-founder of the Silicon Valley startup.

"It can see day and night in any weather and can automatically track intruders, and give the GPS coordinates in real time to patrol officers."






Eldada said such a system would cost "about two to three percent" of the price of a physical barrier for the entire US-Mexico border.





An electronic solution offers additional benefits, according to Quanergy, including for the environment and in operating costs.

"A barrier is an eyesore and it intrudes on the environment, it impedes the flow of wildlife" Eldada told AFP.






And without a wall in place, "you don't have to have patrol officers driving back and forth, so you need fewer people" to monitor the border.

A decade ago, the US government canceled plans for an electronic fence, amid concerns it would be ineffective.

But Eldada said that technology has vastly improved in recent years, notably with the development of Lidar — light detection and ranging technology — paired with artificial intelligence.

"With the long range of Lidar, you detect things before they get to the perimeter, and the AI software is so much more advanced," he said.






"We can get very high resolution images, and look at someone's behavior. You can see every articulation. This allows you to see how each person is moving and have a good idea of whether it's a patrol officer or someone about to cross illegally."


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2019-01-high-tech-border-wall-ces.html#jCp
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