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Plato's Stepchildren - S3 E10

 
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject: Plato's Stepchildren - S3 E10 Reply with quote

See also: Bogmeister's thread @ _____
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While watching this episode tonight I noticed two interesting things about the enhanced version.

The scene of the Enterprise going into orbit in the first shot had the ship moving much faster than in any other scene like it in the series. The Enterprise looks like it's going to whip around the planet and head back out into space!

And in one quick shot, we see a close-up of McCoy's tricorder with what appears to be an added FX of the display, showing a comparison of two different readings from blood samples McCoy had taken.

I thought it was interesting that the folks who did those wonderful enhancements not only made improved versions of original scenes, they snuck in something new as well.

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


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bulldogtrekker
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:44 pm    Post subject: plato's stepchildren - unremastered Reply with quote

I own the unremastered and remastered Star Trek the Original Series DVDs. (Bud gave me the remastered DVDs for my birthday, but that is another story for another day.) Smile

Quote:
The scene of the Enterprise going into orbit in the first shot had the ship moving much faster than in any other scene like it in the series. The Enterprise looks like it's going to whip around the planet and head back out into space!

In the unremastered episode, the planet was revolving much more slowly. The remastered scene (all new) looked much better, but faster.

Quote:
And in one quick shot, we see a close-up of McCoy's tricorder with what appears to be an added FX of the display, showing a comparison of two different readings from blood samples McCoy had taken.

In the unremastered version, the close-up shot of the tricorder screen was a shot of the sick bay diagnosis screen, similar to this photo but with only three arrows.




The remastered shot looked much better.

Bud and I watched this episode together tonight, using Facebook as a chat room.
Very Happy
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scotpens
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Plato's Stepchildren - S3 E10 Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
I thought it was interesting that the folks who did those wonderful enhancements not only made improved versions of original scenes, they snuck in something new as well.

IMHO, the new CGI effects in TOS-R look like crap. They stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. I'll stick with the original FX, thank you, including the grainy Enterprise flyby shots with obvious matte lines.

YMMV, as they say.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respect your opinion, sir, and I appreciate your candor. With respect, I'd like to offer my own take on the enhancements.

When I first saw them I was impressed by how they had retained a certain retro-look that allowed them to fit seamlessly with the rest of the scenes.

It didn't take me long to forget just how awful the original FX looked.





I'm sure the creators of the original special effects were deeply disappointed with what they had to settle for, working on a shoestring budget, using technology that was painfully limited by today's standards. And for decades we had to watch many of the same flawed scenes used over and over in multiple episodes.

The low-budget special effects marred my enjoyment of the series for decades, and I'd reached the point where I didn't enjoy the series anymore. It was like watching the old Flash Gordon serials. As special effects in general got better and better over the years, it made Star Trek look worse and worse.

When I saw what a wonderful job the creators of the new FX had done, my renewed interest in TOS shot up dramatically. At last the series looked the way it should, with glorious, colorful, brilliant special effects.





* from The Ultimate Computer

I hope someday they'll actually be able to put the actors onto CGI sets that don't look like plywood walls painted bright purple and green to look pretty for all those brand new color TVs people were buying in the 1960s.

But that's just my opinion. Very Happy

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Pow
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sf TV show Sanctuary heavily utilized CGI Virtual Sets throughout its run.

While not always perfect, Bud, it definitely demonstrates that TV is headed in the direction of VS more & more.

Even on non-sf/fantasy shows.

I believe that we will one day have shows where the starship, space station, futuristic submarine will primarily be composed of mostly CGI sets & few practical sets.

In one way it fascinates me that they can achieve such a thing technically & that it will offer limitless possibilities.

However, it also bums me out because I really enjoy seeing what artistic designers can create for a sf show & then see it become a real, practical set before our eyes.

Just something nifty knowing that a set is solid.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So right you are.

Watching an older movie and seeing something amazing happen that had to be performed in front of a camera — like a dangerous stunt or an amazingly well-designed set or a practical effect that had to happen just right, the first time -- it gives me a thrill that's separate from the way it relates to the story.

And this is equally true when I see an effect that involves miniatures which are beautifully detailed and carefully filmed to create the illusion of size. Knowing that what I'm looking at was designed on paper and carefully constructed always appeals to the artist in me.

CGI is a wonderful tool, but filmmakers make the mistake of assuming that creating scenes of gigantic objects doing spectacular things in very rapid succession will impress us.

It's a little like two guys with magic lanterns bragging about how much money they wished for.

"I wished for a million dollars!"

"Yeah? Well, I wished for a billion dollars!"

"Whoa, Dude! I'm really impressed!"

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


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Pow
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remain amazed & awed at some of the exterior sets created for films over the years.

I challenge anyone to look upon ShangRi-La from the original Lost Horizon, Ancient Rome from either 1960s Cleopatra or Fall of the Roman Empire (they are 2 entirely different constructions), China from 55 Days at Peking, & not be stunned at their size & detail.
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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[size=18]Although I agree that a lot of the original FX shots on TOS could have been better I'm firmly behind them instead of the new stuff with their weird angled views and cartoon style look! The earth type planets may look better but the rest hasn't got the style for me somehow!
JB


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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnybear wrote:
Although I agree that a lot of the original FX shots on TOS could have been better I'm firmly behind them instead of the new stuff with their weird angled views and cartoon style look! The earth type planets may look better but the rest hasn't got the style for me somehow!JB

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this subject, JB.

I was never overly impressed by the TOS FX when I saw them in the 1960s (although I love the series), and as the years went by and great FX became more and more common, the poor old special effects in TOS just appealed to me less and less.

That's why Forbidden Planet still holds up today, while other movies from that era don't fare so well. Sad

These new FX look the way I wanted the show to look in the 1960s, and I just don't have any nostalgic feelings for FX that looked flawed from the start.

Even though it took them 50 years to finally look like I wanted in 1968, they were well worth the wait.
Very Happy
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

IMDB has 14 trivia items for this episode. Here’s a few of the ones I found the most interesting, in the blue text. Very Happy
________________________________

~ The first network television scripted interracial kiss on the lips occurred in this episode. Although Sammy Davis Jr did kiss Nancy Sinatra a few months earlier on a variety TV show. That was an improvised kiss on the cheek following the end of singing a duet together.

Note from me: On the CHEEK? Geez, I kiss my mother on the CHEEK! That doesn't count as a romantic lip-smackin' KISS! Shocked

~ Network executives ordered the director to shoot a take where he and Uhura did not kiss, just so it would be available. However William Shatner crossed his eyes at the camera making the take useless.

Note from me: Good for you, Bill! Very Happy

~ There is some dispute about whether the kiss actually occurred. According to the on-screen footage, it appears that the actors' lips touched. However, both William Shatner and Nichelle Nichols claimed in Star Trek Memories that NBC exerted pressure to forbid lip contact, and to use a clever camera technique to conceal the "separation". If you look closely, you can tell that the actors' lips are not touching; the angle only makes it look like they might be slightly touching.

Note from me: Okay, so if this really wasn't the first interracial kiss on network television . . . what was? Shocked

~ In the UK, where interracial romance had already been depicted on television, the BBC dropped this episode and subsequent repeats purely on the violence factor: on the grounds that the sadistic treatment of the Enterprise Crew was not suitable for its early evening time slot. It was first shown in the UK on satellite television some 25 years later and on the BBC in December 1993.

Note from me: A quarter of century after it happened, the Brits finally got to the see the The First Interracial Kiss That Wasn't Really the First, During Which Their Lips Didn't Even Touch! Rolling Eyes

~ This episode features the first and only time both Uhura and Chapel being beamed down to a planet together and are a both part of the central storyline.

Note from me: To bad they weren't snoggin' each other when they materialized. By God, THAT would have made headlines I'll bet! Laughing

~ Contrary to popular belief, this was not the first interracial kiss on American network television. This occurred previously in Movin' with Nancy (1967) when Nancy Sinatra kissed Sammy Davis Jr. and it was also voluntary. When Captain Kirk (William Shatner) kissed Lieutenant Uhura (Nichelle Nichols), he kissed her involuntarily; they were forced to do it by aliens telekinetically controlling their bodies. The studio expressed some concern, and it was suggested instead that Spock should kiss Uhura 'to make it less of a problem for the southern [US] audience'. Some stations in the South originally refused to air it.

Note from me: "Honest, Darling, that woman meant nothing to me! It was just a physical thing, Dear! And besides, I think telekenetic aliens MADE me do it! That means it doesn't count! Right?"

~ Nichelle Nichols said this was her favorite episode.

Note from me: Hmmm . . . did she like it the best because she got to kiss William Shatner . . . or because she DIDN'T have to kiss him? Shocked

~ Leonard Nimoy composed "Maiden Wine", the song that he performs in this episode.

Note from me: And the song appears on Leonard's CD called "Music for Lovers . . . Who are Being Mind Controlled".

~ Nichelle Nichols has said that the Star Trek production offices received more mail on this episode than any other episode in the history of the series and none of it, surprisingly, was negative.

Note from me: I'm glad there was lots of positive mail, but we all know that anything that inspires letter writers isn't likely to be 100% positive. Rolling Eyes

~ This episode is the perfect illustration of how the immune system of the body will breakdown if not utilized. In this case, the Platonians had weakened their bodies from lack of use, greatly diminishing their resistance and tolerance to the most minor injury. The body's internal "safeguards" always have to be working in order to be totally effective.

Note from me: Yep, all school teachers (like I used to be) know that being around kids all day constantly challenges our immune system, making it stronger.

And for the record, this is the ONLY instance in which I agree with that stupid saying, "That which doesn't kill you will make you stronger." (Tell that to veterans with PTSD! Sad)

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Eadie
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The FIRST inter-racial kiss on US TV happened almost a year earlier on I Spy between Bill Cosby and France Nuyen.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Wow, talk about your "six degrees of separation", I just read a comment on the I SPY TV CULP COSBY message board that said in 1958 William Shatner starred in a play with France Nuyen, The World of Susie Wong.

I didn't realize until reading this that France Nuyen was the actress in South Pacific who played a Polynesian girl who fell in love with a young Navy officer. That subplot in the movie was about prejudices against interracial relationships!

What ARE the odds, eh?

But wait, there's more! Very Happy

Miss Nuyen was, of course, the spoiled "princess" in the TOS episode called Elaan of Troyius, the alien gal who's pheromones (or something) made Kirk fall in love with her! And they did some serious inter-species[/i smoochin'!

Wikipedia has a piece about the first televised interracial kiss, and it describes multiple incidents that lay claim to the honor, including the one you mentioned, Eadie . . . except that according the them, it wasn't Bill Cosby . . . it was [i]Robert Culp
! Shocked

An episode of I Spy titled "The Tiger" broadcast on January 5, 1966, featured a scripted interracial kiss between Eurasian actress France Nuyen and Robert Culp.

But this is still pretty weird, because two years later in 1968, it was William Shatner who was lip-locking with France Nuyen in that TOS episode! Laughing

And let's be honest here, guys. The racially uptight public back in the Old Days who objected to things like interracial kisses weren't all that bothered by white guys and Asian ladies, otherwise South Pacific (which was Miss Nuyen's screen debut) would have create a ruckus in 1958 when she had sex (off screen) with the Navy lieutenant played by John Kerr.

Anyway, whenever the first interracial kiss on TV really did take place, our society obviously owes a debt of gratitude to Captain James T. Kirk for showing us that love is color blind! It doesn't matter if the Girl of Your Dreams is Asian, Caucasian, Black, or . . . Bright Green!

If a guy is wearing the right colon, he can find love with just about anybody!




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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interracial kiss that wasn't! Kirk was being forced to kiss Uhura, so does that mean it was more a type of telekenetic rape?
JB
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I could be wrong, but I think the significance of a "network televised interracial kiss" is not so much about why the characters are kissing, it's all about the networks decision to show something which a large segment of the population just didn't approve of back in the 60s.

So, "the first interracial kiss on TV" is significant because it shows that a larger segment of the population now accepts it, compared the segment who object to it. It indicates a turning point in society's changing racial attitudes.

However, you've good a valid point, Johnny. The Caucasian captain wasn't choosing to kiss the African American women, he was being forced to. That might actually have made the act somewhat less objectionable to the racially intolerant people who opposed that kind of relationship.

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~ The Space Children (1958)
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