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Four Sided Triangle (1953)
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Bogmeister
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Four Sided Triangle (1953) Reply with quote

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What is a four-sided triangle, one might ask?

In this case, it's two men and one woman, but the woman has been duplicated, so there are now two women. A tough concept to grasp? Something like a 4-sided triangle is beyond our ability to grasp in this reality. It's an intriguing sci-fi concept and a great starting point, though the execution here never rises above the mediocre.

____

The story, based on a 1939 novel, mostly takes place in an English village. It begins when the 3 main characters are children. The two boys and the girl are all close friends, though the girl favors one of the boys.

Then it skips to when the're adults. The young men (Stephen Murray and John van Eyssen) return from college and begin working on a new invention. The woman (Barbara Payton) returns from America and the triangle re-establishes.

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There is some vague talk by one of the inventors on how this new, fabulous machinery works — but it's kept very vague. They've figured out a way to duplicate any object, as long as it fits in the receptacle (about 3 by 4 by 2 feet, though they can build larger receptacles if they want). This is similar to The Fly films. In those, objects/beings are transported — here, they're duplicated. Less dangerous?

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The role of the two young scientists seems to be that of the standard benefactors to humanity. Their invention should eliminate food shortages, for example, and perhaps poverty all-together.

A couple of important British officials are contacted and informed to facilitate this. It seems straightforward, until one of the inventors and the woman announce their engagement. The other inventor, the odd man out, has difficulty with this.

_______

This doesn't follow the usual course of "mad scientist" movies, however. The dissatisfied inventor does not kidnap the object of his desire to do what we all expect. It's all more civilized than that.

The woman understands his grief and agrees to the duplication, almost in a ritualistic fashion. This is where the film veers into unsatisfactory directions. The 2 women never meet or interact (too much trouble FX-wise those days?).

It becomes rather dull, with most of the story about the psychological impact on the 2nd identical woman who, since she is a complete duplicate, also loves the same man. She thought she could handle being with the other guy, as a form of sacrifice, but it's too depressing for her.

It was hinted early in the film that she had suicidal tendencies to begin with.

The possible impact on the world of such a machine is glossed over and the ramifications of such godlike power to create living beings is all but ignored. There was a glitch to duplicating living things which the unsatisfied scientist corrected through some resuscitation methods. (I didn't quite get this).

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The other facet of the film I didn't like was the narration, provided by the '5th' main character, a local doctor who is friends with the 3 (then 4) principals. It seemed unnecessary to me, belaboring all the developments within the story.

The actor (James Hayter) playing the doc is very good and that's a problem — he dominates much of the tale which should have been all focused on the triangle/quadrangle. The ending also was quite pedestrian and predictable.

BoG's Score: 6.5 out of 10

4-Sided Trivia: This was made for a cheap 25,000 pounds by Hammer Films; actress Payton's later life eerily mirrored the tragic aspects of her character here. A Star Trek TNG episode much later in 1992, Second Chances, also tackled the prospect of having 2 identical humans. There was also the later film, The Prestige, in 2006, starring Hugh Jackman & Christian Bale.





BoG
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

The picture quality of this YouTube video is excellent! Cool


________________ Four Sided Triangle (1953)


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I think BoG underrates this one. Bulldogtrekker and I watched a download of it several years ago, and we were especially impressed with the laboratory scenes.










And the leading lady is VERY attractive. Wink


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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

This is undoubtedly one of the most underrated science fiction films of the 1950s!

The concept is astounding, and the story's execution is brilliant. It demonstrates a device that can create duplicates of any object. This would revolutionize the world! Cool

And if that device could even create duplicates of human beings, it would throw the world into turmoil! Shocked

Replicas of the world's greatest scientists, doctors, inventors, artists, composers, and world leaders would insure that the cream of mankind would continue to benefit the human race . . . even after the original people had succumbed to the limits of their normal lifespans! Sad

This movie does a fine job of demonstrating the unexpected pitfalls of this amazing new invention . . . but it certainly does prove that the device could be used to extend the lifespans of mankind's most brilliant scientists, greatest inventors, finest artists, and political leaders!

Imagine a world in which we could insure that our best and brightest people would not be lost to the ravages of disease or the tragic mishaps which robbed us of their unique contributions to mankind! Sad

This movie presents one of the most ambitious and profound concepts in science fiction history!

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
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Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Krel
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be a legal morass and nightmare in every way. But a boon for the legal industry, guaranteeing lawyers work for decades. Laughing

David.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I presume you mean that the duplicate might claim the right to half of the original's holdings. But a better question might be to ask, "Would a duplicate have any rights at all?"

Either way, I guess you're right about the legal problems this would present. Rolling Eyes

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trekriffic
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m not sure that creating an exact human duplicate would impart immortality to the original subject. Unless the duplicate could be made to be much younger than the original; otherwise they would both be the same age and could be expected to die around the same time; especially since their identical genetic structure would make them susceptible to contracting the same diseases as they age.
So if you had an old original you would still have an old duplicate.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trekriffic wrote:
I’m not sure that creating an exact human duplicate would impart immortality to the original subject.

So if you had an old original you would still have an old duplicate.

That's true. But please note that when I said it could "extend the lifespans of mankind's most brilliant scientists, greatest inventors, finest artists, and political leaders", I just meant that the world would still have the benefits of the unique gifts which certain extraordinary people possess — in the form of the duplicate who would continue serving society if the original died an accidental death.

But the biggest problem with the idea is that this process can only provide mankind with a duplicate of extraordinary people if the duplicate is made before they die. So, the concept is similar to life insurance. We'd be preparing for the accidental death of the gifted folks.

Then again, having one-or-more duplicates of people with special skills and unique gifts can a good thing in some cases.

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Krel
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
I presume you mean that the duplicate might claim the right to half of the original's holdings. But a better question might be to ask, "Would a duplicate have any rights at all?"

Either way, I guess you're right about the legal problems this would present. Rolling Eyes

This pretty much like the duplicate discussion we had in "The Fly" thread. It's going to cover much of the same ground.

You may have problems with the family, colleagues. There could be problems with employers.

OH! New problem I just though of. Who owns the intellectual rights to any inventions, developments, writings of the original AND the duplicate. Can the original claim the duplicate as intellectual property.

If the original gets jealous of the duplicate and kills them, can the original be charged with murder?

Can the original take out an insurance policy on the duplicate. Or vice versa?

Can the original claim the duplicate as a dependent?

What a playground for the government, lawyers, religious scholars and philosophers.

David.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barbara Peyton certainly led a life almost as tragic as in this movie. Married and divorced many times she ended up being arrested for prostitution in the early 60's. Years of alcohol and drug abuse led her to an early death.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

David, I could be wrong, but I think you're overthinking the legal ramifications here. Duplicates would have a hard time stealing the rights to properties held by the "originals". I suspect their rights would be questionable at best!

Hell, they don't even have birth certificates, passports, and drivers licenses. They've never paid taxes! Confused

As for Barbara Payton — yes, I've read about how Miss Payton was a little too hot to handle (as they say). She sort of pushed her own Self Destruct button.

On a semi-related note, I've never understood why prostitution is illegal! Shocked

I mean, dammit . . . if a women wants charge a man to do something which his wife does for free, why is that a crime? Confused

After all, if a woman can kiss a few dozen men for a dollar each in the Kissing Booth at the county fair just to raise money for the local church, why is it illegal for a woman to perform all the rest of the sex act with a man in a cheap hotel? Rolling Eyes

My question is, how can the government make it illegal for a woman to have sex with A man in exchange for money, but she can do it for free as often as she wants and get nothing but a bad reputation? Mad

That flies in the face of logic — not to mention our capitalistic system! Sad

And consider this, guys!

The Constitution has laws which protect free speech . . . even when moronic presidents like you-know-who use it to cause riots which result in mobs who storm the Capitol building!

And yet we have laws which prohibit paid fornication? Confused

Perhaps somebody can explain to me why "paid fornication" in private is worse than "acts of treason" that inspire an attack on the Capitol — an atrocity which appeared on live television!

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud, basicly I would agree with you. However there are a few other concerns.

First, many of the women are being exploited by their "procurrors" to the point of being drugged, beaten and killed by traffickers. Many of these women are not doing it for their own benefit but to augment organized crime. Many are kidnapped and forced into it .

Secondly, you have the public health issue. STD's of all kinds.

The arrangement of the "ranches" in Nevada seems to be the best of a bad thing. The women work as independent contractors for a set portion of the proceeds in a protected environment with health issues addressed. They can come and go as they wish.

A "victimless crime" ? Not always when you consider the issues that surround it. Exploited women and girls….boys too...organized crime skimming its' cut...murder and abuse.

In a perfect world it would be tit for tat, quid pro quo, and just a person exerciseing their free right over their body.

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Krel
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
David, I could be wrong, but I think you're overthinking the legal ramifications here. Duplicates would have a hard time stealing the rights to properties held by the "originals". I suspect their rights would be questionable at best!

Hell, they don't even have birth certificates, passports, and drivers licenses. They've never paid taxes! Confused

Bud, I think that you are underestimating the legal profession and people's greed. For instance, who gets the intellectual rights from the duplicates labors? The original, the duplicate, or the person that financed the creation of the duplicate (if it isn't the original.)

Bud Brewster wrote:
On a semi-related note, I've never understood why prostitution is illegal! Shocked

Talk to a street Cop about prostitution, they can explain it to you.

Bud Brewster wrote:
Perhaps somebody can explain to me why "paid fornication" in private is worse than "acts of treason" that inspire an attack on the Capitol — an atrocity which appeared on live television!

Bud, I think you're being too hard on ol' Beijing Biden. Sure his party spent the last year supporting, making excuses for, shielding and encouraging the anarchists, rioters and insurrectionists. Committing, by your works "acts of treason". But according to the FBI, not all the rioters were left-wingers.

But Beijing Biden hadn't even taken the oath of office yet.

David.
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scotpens
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
Bud, basically I would agree with you. However there are a few other concerns.

First, many of the women are being exploited by their "procurers" to the point of being drugged, beaten and killed by traffickers. Many of these women are not doing it for their own benefit but to augment organized crime. Many are kidnapped and forced into it .

Secondly, you have the public health issue. STD's of all kinds.

. . . A "victimless crime" ? Not always when you consider the issues that surround it. Exploited women and girls….boys too...organized crime skimming its' cut...murder and abuse.

You've just made a compelling argument for legalization. When something is legal, it can be controlled, regulated and taxed.

That's the best way to deal with all so-called "vice," whether it's booze, drugs, gambling or prostitution. Legalize it, regulate it and tax it. You're never going to make it go away
.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You've just made a compelling argument for legalization. When something is legal, it can be controlled, regulated and taxed.

That's exactly the part I agree with!

Same thing with legalization of drugs/marijuana. Remove the need for going "underground" to acquire it.

Prohibition put liquor as a forbidden product requiring extra-legal means to be acquired and the demand for it went up. Crime, murder, etc was the result.

It may be cruel to say it...but if those who abuse it die from it....It's social Darwinism at it's cold , hard reality.

Pure prostitution...That is, sex for recompense, is really not such a foreign concept. Isn't marriage an exchange of financial support for sexual favors? Well...really...NOT always. I've been married 52 years to the same woman and sex has nothing to do with the fact that I just love her.
You could argue that she fulfills a need within me...and you'd be right! It's just a need beyond pure sexual (Although that's not a component!) but more a pure relationship of spiritual and physical compatability!

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

The "bondage scene" in The Thing from Another World has a bit of dialog on the point that Gord raised. Nikki has Captain Hendry tied up, and she's feeding him drinks. Hendry describes the long term commitment of marriage in a funny way.

Captain Hendry: "You gals . . . Rolling Eyes. If a guy asks you to dinner, buys you drinks, and tries to kiss you, he's a wolf. But if the SAME man asks you to have 30,000 dinners and the same amount of drinks — "

Nikki (chuckling as she finishes for him) " — Then he's not a wolf anymore." (sarcastically) "That's a fine philosophy."




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