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The Black Hole (1979)
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Pow
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The double-barreled ray gun that is used was an impressive design.

Although,if one designed a ray gun I would think that its power would be such that one barrel would do the trick like the Star Trek Phaser.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Come to think of it, those handguns did have an original design! And I guess if a guy tended to aim high, the lower barrel would insure that he still hit his target! Laughing

And there's a lot more detail than we get to see in the movie. The first image below is a photo of one the props, I think, because it looks pretty beat up.






But the one below is someone's computer rendering of it.



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bud, those pix are terrific.

In spite of the general consensus being that Disney did not hit it out of the park with TBH; we can almost always find elements to admire about even mediocre sci~fi films.

TBH had these ray guns & the practical communication badges located on the collars of the uniforms of the Palomino crew,

The designs for the Palomino & Cygnus space ships were fantastic!

The sets for both ships were darn good too.

Uniforms for the Palomino crew also were well designed.

Max & Vincent designs were good even if we can agree that Vincent's eyes came off as silly.

The meteor crashing into the Cygnus was spectacular although some of the science regarding its affects was more than questionable.

The cast was also fine including 2 Academy award winners.

The FX looked lavish.

It is always a shame when so much of the production elements of a sci~fi movie work so well but it isn't supported by a strong script.
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Krel
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the design of the Palomino LASER pistols better than the Cygnus's. I was sorry that you never got to see them fired.

Cinefantastique did an article on the movie while it was still in production. In it the prop master said that they made five hundred of the Cygnus LASER pistols, and most of them had gone AWOL. The author pointed out that they do make great souvenirs. The prop master agreed, but complained that they weren't finished filming yet! Laughing

The Cygnus LASER pistols had lights in the muzzles to help the animators, They ended up removing the batteries because the actors kept accidently firing the LASER pistols when they weren't suppose to. Like when they were pointed at the back of another actor's head. Laughing

The Palomino collar radios were photos of an IC chip glued to a piece of plastic.

David.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As silly as the VINCENT designs may have been, the design of the "villain" robot MAXAMILLIAN was awesome!








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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

They were smart to make the robots float instead of walk. Robot suits with men in them always walk exactly like what they are — men in robots suits.

Except for Robby, of course. Cool

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

This video below includes a portion of what was presented on a network TV special to promote The Black Hole's release. The longer video excerpt below is wonderful.


_____ Mike Jittlov - The Wizard of Speed and Time


__________


________________________________

IMDB has several interesting trivia items for this production. Very Happy
________________________________

~ John Hughes of animation company Rhythm and Hughes created the "green grid" sequence that appears in the opening titles. It was the longest computer graphics sequence ever to appear in a film at that time.

Note from me: John Barry's moody music goes perfectly with the slow moving POV of the title sequence with that green grid.


____________ "The Black Hole" Opening Credits


__________



~ This film and Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979) were the last two Hollywood films to include an overture, once a common feature of "major" studio releases.

This film's overture is usually cut from television broadcasts, though it's included in showings on Turner Classic Movies and the DVD release. When the film initially received a Blu-ray release from the Disney Movie Club service, it lacked the overture by mistake.

This oversight was corrected in future printings of the disc, but unless one buys it directly from the service, there's no way to tell the difference between both discs if one buys it secondhand.


Note from me: I love the overtures which played before the credits back in Days of Olde!

There purpose, of course, was to put the audience in the right mood for the movie. As I remember, the lights were still up in the theater during the overture, and they didn't fade down until the movie actually started.

I think the ultimate overture and "underture" (exit music) was for It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World.

It even had intermission music that played in the theater while the patrons went to the snack bar, and a series of comedic audio recordings that played in the lobby (and even in the rest rooms) which expanded on the story and kept the patrons involved in the adventure! Very Happy

All this great material is included on the restored DVD I bought a year ago.

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World was a "total immersion experience" which drew the audience in even before this 3 hour 24 minute cinematic adventure began, and it kept them involved even when they were in the lobby or the rest rooms, and it followed them right out the door when the movie was over! Very Happy

Ladies and gentlemen, for your listening pleasure, here is the overture for The Black Hole.
Very Happy

__________________ Overture (Score Version)


__________



~ To film the special effects, Disney originally wanted to rent the Dykstraflex camera system, the first computer-controlled camera, created for Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977), from Industrial Light & Magic.

The price and rental terms were unacceptable, so Disney created its own version. The result was Disney's A.C.E.S. (Automated Camera Effects System), which was radically superior to the Dykstraflex system, the Mattescan system, which enabled the camera to move on a matte painting, and a computer-controlled modeling stand.


Note from me: Moral of the story: it you get greedy and charge too much for the use of your new technological innovation, the customer might just go out and invent a better one of his own! Shocked

~ V.I.N.CENT. was originally supposed to have more elaborate electronic eyes, based on electronic stock ticker-type billboards, which would have given him a greater range of facial expressions. The electro-mechanical eyes didn't work properly, and the effect was abandoned at the beginning of principal photography.

Note from me: And so what we got instead was a pair of painted-on dolls eyes which made the dumb little floating "cold cream jar" have less expression than an emoji like this! Shocked

~ Gary Nelson was not satisfied with the way the model shop made "BOB", saying that the robot did not look battered enough. He went to the clay model they were using for reference and hit it several times with a baseball bat. They built a new robot based on that model.

Note from me: I think somebody should have taken the baseball bat to Gary Nelson, because "Bob" doesn't look a damn bit like an "old and battered robot" — it looks like clay model some damn fool smacked with a baseball bat! Rolling Eyes

~ The visual effect of the black hole itself was created by forming a whirlpool in a round Plexiglas water tank, and adding different colors of paint.

Note from me: The effect was pretty good . . . but it was "poor man's CGI" by today's standards. Sad

~ Neither Roddy McDowell nor Slim Pickens are credited for their voice work in the film in either the opening or closing sequences.

Note from me: My reply to this is just two words: That sucks! Mad

~ Like many other science-fiction films released after Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977), which had generated a fortune in licensed merchandise, this film had a lot of tie-in merchandise. It didn't sell well. Vintage toys from the film are highly sought-after, and often sell for huge amounts of money.

Note from me: This is a surprise to Hollywood? Star Wars action figures can be used by kids to act out new versions of action scenes from the movie! But what kind of scenes can kids recreate from this snooze fest? Rolling Eyes

~ Disney regarded the quality of the special effects to be so crucial that it called Peter Ellenshaw out of a 10-year retirement to work on the film.

Note from me: Star Wars (1977) taught Hollywood that bargain basement FX were not impressing modern audiences. It was a lesson it took them a few years to learn . . . Rolling Eyes

~ Alan Dean Foster, who wrote the novelization of the film, was so appalled by the bad science in the script that he provided a list of changes to the producers which he felt would improve the story. Upset by this, the Disney brass actually called a meeting to decide what to do.

Note from me: Yes indeed! Very Happy

I love the mental image of a big board room fill with dozens of executives from Ivy League business schools, dressed in $2,000 suits, wondering why millions of well-educated science fiction fans hated their brainless sci-fi movie!

These days, some of the folks in Hollywood have learned that protecting their "bottom line" requires making sure that people much smarter than them insure that mistakes they're blind to are fixed before their productions are presented to the general public.

We can only hope that this trend continues . . .

~ Harlan Ellison was briefly brought on as a scientific consultant on the film. He was fired on his first day, before lunch was over, because he pitched an animated porno movie starring Disney characters. Roy Edward Disney was sitting at the next table, heard everything, and had Ellison fired on the spot. Ellison insists he was simply joking, but others who were there say he was talking about it sincerely.

Note from me: If there's any truth at all to this, it proves conclusively that Harlan Ellison is bat-shit crazy and should be wearing a straitjacket. Shocked

~ The laser pistols originally had light up tips that would activate when the actors pressed the trigger, giving the animators cues as to when someone was actually firing the guns. The actors would unconsciously press the triggers when they were not supposed to, often inadvertently shooting cast members.

Note from me: Obviously this is bullshit, but it's funny! Laughing

~ The film was originally supposed to take place in a completely weightless environment. The technical difficulties prompted a re-write of the script so that when the Palomino ties up the Cygnus gravity returned.

Note from me: Sorry, but this is bullshit, too! What producer would authorize a production in which the entire cast would dangled from wires throughout the entire production! Shocked

~ Yvette Mimieux was given a short and curly hairstyle to make the scenes where she appeared weightless seem more convincing, since longer hair would have flowed about in zero-gravity.

Note from me: Ummm . . . well, duh! Rolling Eyes

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Krel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
~ The laser pistols originally had light up tips that would activate when the actors pressed the trigger, giving the animators cues as to when someone was actually firing the guns. The actors would unconsciously press the triggers when they were not supposed to, often inadvertently shooting cast members.

Note from me: Obviously this is bullshit, but it's funny! Laughing

Not really, the story comes from the Cinefantastique article on the movie. It's a common problem on movies and TV shows that have light-up rayguns. A button or switch is more sensitive to pressure than a firearm's trigger mechanism.

They had the same problem with the PPG pistols on "Babylon 5", and removed the batteries from the props.

David.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel wrote:
It's a common problem on movies and TV shows that have light-up rayguns. A button or switch is more sensitive to pressure than a firearm's trigger mechanism.

They had the same problem with the PPG pistols on "Babylon 5", and removed the batteries from the props.

Obviously I didn't think they actually "shot the other actors", but if the comment had just said, "They fired the ray guns when they didn't mean to," I wouldn't have mistakenly thought it sounded bogus.
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~ The Space Children (1958)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Principal photography began on October 11, 1978 and went to April 20, 1979.

Writers Bob Barbash and Richard Landau wrote the script and were influenced by the popularity of disaster movies at that time such as "The Poseidon Adventure" and "The Towering Inferno."

Their idea was a space-themed disaster film.

Early titles for the film were "Probe One," "Space Station One," and "Space Probe One."

The original story involved a supernova wave outer space event striking a space station and the surviving humans attempt to flee back to Earth.

Many critics felt that this was the Disney Company's way of cashing in on the influence of the 1977 mega-hit "Star Wars: A New Hope."

To some degree this was true but it was not as extensive as people believed.

The basis for "TBH" were the disaster films that were such a success at that time.

Visual Effects designer Peter Ellenshaw had already created & constructed the sets for "TBH" prior to "SW:ANH" debut.
"TBH" had been in lengthy pre~production for some time prior to the premiere of "SW: ANH."

"TBH" was a rarity in its production in that it was entirely done in-house by the Disney Studio. Nothing was farmed out to any other production companies.

Famed artist Robert T. McCall was hired to create the concepts for the spaceships, robots, and so forth. Ultimately none of his drawings were ever used for the movie.

Actress Jennifer O'Neill was hired for the Dr. Kate McCrae role but told that she would have to cut her trademark long hair short. Short hair would be much simpler to deal with in the scenes involving no gravity.

She agreed and called in hair stylist Vidal Sassoon to cut her hair. O'Neill had serious trepidation regarding the shoring of her locks. So as Sassoon would cut off an inch of her hair, O'Neill would have a glass of wine. Then another glass after the next inch was trimmed, then so forth and so on.

Driving home that day, Jennifer was in a car accident on Sunset Boulevard. The part was recast with Yvette Mimieux who had earlier starred in the Disney film "Monkeys, Go Home!" from 1967.

Can anyone say wig?

A pre-"Alien" Sigourney Weaver was considered for the role of Kate.

Christopher Lee, Peter Cushing, and Donald Pleasence were all considered for the role of the insane Dr. Hans Reinhardt.

Director Arthur Hiller warned his friend Gary Nelson, director of TBH, that Maximilian Schell (Dr. Reinhardt) "could be a monster on the set." Hiller ended up having no problems with Schell.

When Nelson went to Europe to personally recruit Schell for "TBH", Schell was thrilled to be working for the Disney Studio as he had grown up loving the Disney animated films.

When Schell signed on to the movie he received a hand written note from Disney president Ron Miller saying "welcome to the family." Schell was touched and said that no studio had ever done that to him before.

Schell did have conditions though. Schell had just directed the film "Tales from Vienna Woods." He wanted to bring the film with him to California where "TBH" was filmed.

Schell, along with his editor, wanted to be able to use the cutting room on the Disney lot in order to edit his movie during any downtime during "TBH" shoot.

Nelson was happy to accommodate Schell.

The line in the film where Reinhardt whispers to Kate "Protect me from Maximilian" was improvised by Schell.

Director Nelson left it in because he thought it would intrigue the audience as to whether it was a bluff, a desperate plea for help, or Reinhardt was simply insane?

Robert Forster (Captain Dan Holland), Yvette Mimieux (Dr. Kate McCrae), and Joseph Bottoms (Lt. Charlie Pizer) all went to "circus camp" for a few weeks. There they worked with acrobatic wire harnesses in order to become comfortable with them, as they'd have to do wire work in the film in order to simulate zero-gravity conditions.

Two models of the Cygnus spaceship were constructed at the cost of $100,000 each.

To create the swirling effect for the black hole, a clear plexi-glass tank was built that was six-feet in diameter and six-feet deep and filled with water.

An impeller was placed at the bottom of the tank which would create a whirlpool.

Peter Ellenshaw then stood on a ladder and poured various colored lacquers into the swirling water.

Then it was all back-lit with sixteen-lights.

The lights were so hot that at one point the tank exploded.

Fortunately, the tank was inside of a much larger tank (the one used for Disney's classic Jules Verne movie adaptation of "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") so the flood of colored water did not inundate the sound stage.

Over 550 visual effects shots and 150 matte paintings were utilized for the film.

The humanoid masks were mirrored plexi-glass and not unlike a two-way mirror. So the actors wearing the mask had a very clear view during their scenes.

The humanoid who has his mask removed in one scene in order to show the zombie-like human beneath it was director of "TBH", Gene Nelson.

The agricultural section of the Cygnus was filled with real trees and plants.

The giant meteor strike of the agricultural section took two-weeks to film.

During the filming of the movie, Gene Nelson's sister provided the voice for VINCENT & Old Bob in order for the live actors to react to. It was intended to hire actors to dub in the voices for both robots in post-production. However, no one knew just who would be hired for the voice over work while the movie was being shot.

During filming, the cast was not shown the last pages of the script for the finale of the movie because there wasn't one.

The Vatican gave rare permission for the Sistine Chapel ceiling fresco to be filmed by Disney.

The intention was to do a zoom into Kate McCrae's eye while she was in the escaping Cygnus probe with Dan and Charlie at the end of the movie.

The scene then was to evolve into the Sistine Chapel ceiling where an image of Kate would be shown behind the painting of God.

President of the Walt Disney Company Ron Miller (Walt's son-in-law) feared a possible backlash from people and religious organizations over this scene and had it edited out of the final film.

Whitman Comics published four-issues of "TBH." The first three issues were an adaptation of the movie. The fourth and final issue was an original story titled Beyond the Black Hole : Another Earth---Another Universe.

The Walt Disney Presents logo at the start of the film was replaced by Buena Vista Productions so as to appear as a more sophisticated production that would appeal to a wider audience.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow, A FANTASTIC post!

The Whitman comic book adaptation was drawn by comic art Master JACK KIRBY!

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
Pow, A FANTASTIC post!!

I completely agree, Gord! Very Happy

Pow's fact-rich contributions are a tremendous asset to All Sci-Fi
!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw shucks, Bud & Gord you are making me blush.

But keep it up, I can take it.
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ralfy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at the original trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKYFa9FHEU4

and the new one from Disney+:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FKJNcV9Ym4
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More data from good ole IMDB.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture was released on December 8, 1979. The Black Hole on December 21, 1979.

Sidebar: A surfeit of SF films to eagerly look forward to that December of '79 my pals and I thought at the time.

How I remember my amigos and I standing in the long line at the theater before the days of multiplexes. It was a bitter, bitter December evening but there we stood and shivered, excited to see a dream come true: Star Trek rebooted with the original cast and a budget with loads of moolah to make it all look spectacular.

ST:TMP looked fantastic but never managed to truly capture the ethos of the 1966~1969 NBC television series. Too many people producing the movie did not "get" the TV show. And it showed amidst the stunning special visual effects.

Letdown number one.

Two weeks later it was off to a different theater in better weather to see the Walt Disney Company's high-priced epic science fiction feature film The Black Hole.

Would Disney get right what Paramount got wrong with Star Trek?

Ah, nope. Letdown number two.

How could we strike out both times with these films we so looked forward to seeing? Or how could two major studios blow it?

Time has been kinder to ST:TMP as the years have passed. Fans acknowledge its flaws but have grown less harsh over the film as a whole. As one critic said, ST:TMP is still the BEST looking one in the Trek film franchise.

Poor Black Hole. Time remains frozen regarding its failure. Those of us who were monumentally disappointed in it remain so. Those who fell in love with it as youngsters are now older and cannot believe they thought the Black Hole was ever fabulous.

The Cygnus model was 12'-long & weighed in at 175 pounds.

Sidebar: 175 pounds was my weight in high school. Those were the days.

The Cygnus was originally named Centaurus. This renaming came about after the Cygnus constellation where the first known black hole was discovered in 1964.

The events of the movie take place in the year 2130.

The model of the Palomino incorporates a door from a model kit of the Eagle spacecraft from Space:1999 (1975.)

Maximilian was modeled on the satanic demon, Chernaboy, from the Disney classic animated film Fantasia from 1940.

V.I.N.C.E.N.T. stood for Vital Information Necessary Centralized.

S.T.A.R. stood for Special Troops Arms Regiment.

Director Gary Nelson hated the original script titled "Space Probe One," but agreed to direct the movie after seeing the awesome looking concept renderings which he though looked magnificent.

Sidebar: Here's an excellent story that serves as a warning to directors. Just because the conceptual art work for a film looks incredible, if the script stinks, ain't no dazzling visuals that's gonna save this turkey. Seems to be a lesson that directors need to be reminded of over and over and over.

Beautiful Linda Evans (The Big Valley) interviewed for the Dr. Kate McCrae role. She was severely disappointed to lose the role as her career had somewhat slowed down at this point.

In not getting the role, she ended up being available for the primetime soap opera Dynasty which became a huge hit.

Sidebar: Lesson here being that what sometimes appears to be a wonderful opportunity can actually be a mirage, while another and better opportunity is just around the corner.

The evil Maximilian robot was named so before the casting of Maximilian Schell.

Notice that Dr. Reinhardt becomes trapped inside Maximilian in the finale. Actor Maximilian Schell is encased in robot Maximilian's shell so to speak.

Sidebar: Cool, I never picked up on that before.

Dr. Reinhardt was a parody of Dr. Wernher von Braun.

Sidebar: Never heard of that before. von Braun worked on some projects with the Disney Studio.

Poetic justice department. Maximilian kills poor Dr. Durant by using a high powered drill bit to bore into the scientist's chest. Later on we see VINCENT do the same thing to Maximilian's body, which sends him flying off into outer space.

Go, VINCENT!

Sidebar: Black Hole, I wanted to love you. You were from the terrific Disney Studios, you were an expensive and grand science fiction feature film with a marvelous cast. Just didn't work out.
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