ALL SCI-FI Forum Index ALL SCI-FI
The place to “find your people”.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

TOS episode #60 - And the Children Shall Lead
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Star Trek on Television
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bogmeister
Galactic Fleet Vice Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:02 pm    Post subject: TOS episode #60 - And the Children Shall Lead Reply with quote

____________
__________ And The Children Shall Lead' Trailer


__________



_______________

The Enterprise arrives at a decimated scientific colony in response to a distress call. Only, it appears they are too late. They observe the bodies of the adults — all dead except one, and he only lives long enough to warn them about "The enemy within" (no relation to that titled episode).

Who or what is the enemy? It's them! Them!

They pump their fists at the command of an unseen menace and Uhura sees herself as a dying crone. Sulu sees daggers in outer space. Scotty threatens to kill anyone entering auxiliary control.

And Kirk? He gets anxiety attacks (this popularized William Shatner's unique style of tensing his body in an odd manner). These are some of the better (though too amusing) scenes in this episode which otherwise proceeds at a limp pace in the first half. And, that fist-pumping? It's gotta stop.




The foot soldiers of this new threat turn out to be little children or, as I term them, brats.

It recalls the other low-rated episode which also had many kids, Miri. If you thought the kiddies in Miri were annoying, wait'll you get a load of these little rascals.

They run around, playing their games, annoying Captain Kirk (Captain Picard on the TNG series also could do without children — he probably decided that when he studied old mission logs of this freaky invasion), and ignore the fact that all their parents have just died.

Well, it is a mystery in space, of a sort, and does have a slight curiosity factor built in. This episode also reveals, supposedly, the deepest fears of several key crew members.



The reveal is certainly a letdown. Rolling Eyes

Real-life famous attorney Melvin Belli is the culprit, materializing every time the kids voice a silly chant. He plays a mysterious entity known as the Gorgan — "friendly angel, come to me . . . " is part of the chant.

Belli had no acting experience or ability that I could see, literally seeming to 'phone in' (or 'project in') his performance. He resembles a holographic image, dressed in a weird robe, and his scenes were filmed separately to be matted into the show later.

His may very well be the worst guest appearance by an 'actor' on TOS. No explanation is given for what his so-called evil character really is (a fallen angel? an alien lawyer?) except some motivation-less ancient evil (Redjac alert!) . . . and I found I didn't much care anyway.





There was also a misconceived use of the transporter which, as depicted, cannot automatically detect the absence of a planet, even though it's the most sophisticated piece of hardware in the Federation.

I suppose the crew was hypnotized into believing that the planet was still there, even by way of the instrumentation, but I would think such a device would have a built-in safety factor, or humans would be accidentally beamed into vacuums quite a lot, based on expected human error.

Anyway, any entertainment value stems from the scenes of our crew behaving in a strange or hostile fashion, such as Chekov's attempt to arrest Kirk and Spock. As with everything in this episode, it was done better in others, such as in Day of the Dove.

Click below to see when Kirk loses command . . . and Shatner does, too!

BoG's Score: 5 out of 10



_____________[/color

[color=#EEEEEE] _____
Shatner at His Finest!


__________


Extra Trek Trivia:

~ Child actor Craig Hundley, who plays the oldest kid in this one, Tommy, also played Kirk's nephew in Operation--Annihilate! in the 1st season.

~ One of the other children, Steve, was played by Melvin Belli's son, Caesar.

~ The girl, Pamelyn Ferdin, was in many shows as a child actor; she later had a regular role in the children's sf series, Space Academy (1977).

~ This episode was referenced in the film Zodiac (2007), in which Melvin Belli (Brian Cox) briefly speaks about his role here as the Gorgan (at the 45-minute mark).



BoG
Galaxy Overlord Galactus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3400
Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian Tochi who played Ray on ATCSL would later on co-star as a series regular with Pamelyn Ferdin on "Space Academy.''
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

The first time I saw Pamalyn in Space Academy I mistook her for the actress who played Ursula in Bye Bye Birdie!

I eventually got straightened out on that when Miss Trudi Ames called me up to inform me that my brain's facial recognition software needed an update, because she was two years older than me and eleven years older than Pamalyn! (Shown below) Rolling Eyes

_________________

But she didn't sound upset with me, thank goodness. In fact, she took the first selfie during our conversation to prove it, using her Kodak camera. (Ya gotta admit, the two ladies do look somewhat alike. Rolling Eyes)



~ Click on the picture to see more of Pamelyn Ferdon's secret identity, Trudi Ames . . . aka Ursula.
Very Happy
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3400
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trivia for an episode you can watch every Thanksgiving 'cause it's a turkey!

First appearance of the set piece that is the entrance to the Gorgan's cave. This set piece will be seen again on the episodes Spock's Brain, The Cloud Minders, All Our Yesterdays and That Which Survives.

The arboretum seen in this episode was originally constructed for Elaan of Troyius, but the scene featuring it on that episode was edited due to time. The arboretum will show up again in a modified form in the episode Is There in Truth No Beauty?

Professor Starnes and the male colonists who are murdered wear the same jumpsuits first seen worn by the miners on the planet Janus VI in The Devil in the Dark episode.

The jumpsuits were used again on numerous other episodes.

This is the only episode to feature the flag for the United Federation of Planets. I was underwhelmed by its design.

In the Greg Cox novels, the Gorgan is part of a powerful gang of interstellar life forms that include the alien from The Day of the Dove episode; as well as the being in the film Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

The producer, writer, director, and cast members felt that they were actually going to make an outstanding episode with the ATCSL script.

A number of decisions would sabotage the episode.

Gene Roddenberry assigned the script for rewriting to a writer with no background with Star Trek, and one with hit and miss reputation.

NBC interfered due to issues of mass suicide and innocent children being manipulated by pure evil. Plot points were removed; dialogue weakened.

The director hired had no past ST experience.

Malvin Belli had no acting experience.

Budget cuts affected the episode.

The original script by the talented writer Edward J. Lakso was much darker, powerful, and profound than the watered down version that was filmed.

According to Star Trek writer Dorthy Fontana, the producer Fred Freiberger & writer Arthur Singer had never done any science fiction and did not truly understand it.

Those who liked Fred said that he was simply up against it during Star Trek's third season and does not deserve all the criticisms that have been hurled against him over the years.
Key player Gene Coon had exited the series, Roddenberry was less and less involved with the show, NBC & Paramount had severely slashed the show's budget, and the scripts coming in were very poor.

Freiberger was the one who decided to cast Melvin Belli. This was known as 'stunt casting' in show business. Hiring a well known personality who is not an actor for an acting role.
Jimmy Doohan and Walter Koenig were furious that a non-actor had been hired for an episode.

Guest star Pamelyn Ferdin developed a huge crush on William Shatner during the filming of this episode.

During rehearsal, director Marvin Chomsky listened as Melvin Belli rambled on when was doing a scene as the Gorgan. When Chomsky asked if Belli had memorized the script dialogue, Belli admitted he had not. Belli thought he could just make it up as he went along.

Pamelyn Ferdin has a fun FB Page with photos from throughout her career and interesting stories about her numerous television roles and the people she has worked with over the years.

Pamelyn eventually retired after amassing a long acting resume and became a nurse and an animal rights advocate.

Her autobiography is due out this fall and should be fascinating to read.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Mike, your wonderful post above is distinctive in two ways!

First of all, it's one of your most enjoyable and informative comments concerning a Star Trek: TOS episode . . . despite the fact that the episode itself is disgracefully bad! Shocked

Amazingly enough, your careful research discovered fascinating info and surprising details which revealed the fact that the episode could have been much better than it was. Your description of all the bad decisions and unfortunate choices which contributed to that hot mess which created a wack-a-doodle excuse for a science fiction story is much more enjoyable than actually watching the episode itself! Very Happy

In short, Thank you!

All Sci-Fi is proud to present your comments to all our members — not to mention the surprising number of our daily guests . . . which, as of 3:30 EST today on Friday, August 28th, is an amazing 202!
Shocked
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scotpens
Starship Captain


Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 871
Location: The Left Coast

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: And the Children Shall Lead - episode #60 Reply with quote

Bogmeister wrote:
And Kirk? He gets anxiety attacks (this popularized William Shatner's unique style of tensing his body in an odd manner).

There were several episodes in which Kirk literally lost his shirt -- but in this one, we saw him lose his shit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAvRBDQqSmY
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnnybear
Mission Specialist


Joined: 15 Jun 2016
Posts: 442

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never really understood the dislike for this episode! There are definitely worse shows in the third season than this one like Plato's Stepchildren and Whom Gods Destroy! And this episode was never banned by the BBC unlike three other episodes, two of which I've already mentioned! Miri had one screening in 1970 but got the chop too soon after! Melvin Belli wasn't an actor? At the time you could have fooled me as I found him quite unnerving, especially when the brown spaghetti started forming on his face and he started ranting at Kirk who strangely enough knew his name was Gorgon?
JB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3400
Location: New York

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your kind comments, Bruce. I am glad that you and the other members enjoy reading my trivia posts.

I sure enjoying researching it all and posting it for everyone.


Last edited by Pow on Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Krel
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea that Melvin Belli wasn't an actor is kind of funny when you consider that he was a top attorney. A top attorney is also a good actor.

David.
Back to top
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

IMDB has several interesting trivia items for this production. Very Happy
________________________________

~ At the 50th anniversary "Star Trek" convention in Las Vegas in August 2016, fans voted this the seventh worst episode of the "Star Trek" franchise.

Note from me: I wonder what the other six are.

~ During one scene on the bridge, Kirk tries to give orders to Leslie, but his words are garbled. If the audio for this scene is played in reverse, Kirk can be heard to say, "Remove Lieutenant Uhura and Mr. Spock from the bridge. Confine them to quarters. Did you hear me? Take Mr. Sulu to his quarters. He's relieved of duty."

Note from me: I don't remember that scene. I wonder how someone managed to the play the garbled dialog backwards.

~ Walter Koenig considered this to be the worst episode of the series. While he felt that the episode was very poor overall, his biggest complaint was the casting of Melvin Belli as Gorgan, firstly because it severely undermined the main villain, and secondly because he considered it an act of stunt casting which had robbed professional actors from a potential job.

Note from me: All those objections are quite valid.

~ In James Blish's novelization, Sulu is terrified by the sight of missiles on the view-screen, not swords. More interestingly, the children sing spells to cause havoc among the crew rather than making the fist-pumping gesture which has earned a lot of ridicule among fans.

Note from me: The fist-pumping and the annoying music that went with it were certainly not a plus for this disappointing episode.

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scotpens
Starship Captain


Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 871
Location: The Left Coast

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
I don't remember that scene. I wonder how someone managed to the play the garbled dialog backwards.

I'm sure it's easy enough with today's digital audio software. Even in the 1960s, there were tape machines that could play in reverse.

Quote:
In James Blish's novelization, Sulu is terrified by the sight of missiles on the view-screen, not swords.

Note that the images of swords and daggers are coming at Sulu hilt-first! That's about as menacing as being threatened by someone holding a gun pointing the wrong way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3400
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitpicks Guide

The departure of the Enterprise from Triacus strands two security guards on the planet. No mention is ever made of going back for them.

How does Captain Kirk know that the creature is called a Gorgan? The episode dialogue never refers to the alien being as such until Kirk uses the term.

Back on the Enterprise, Kirk views the logs made by the leader of the expedition on Triacus. During the playback, the leader holds his tricorder. If his tricorder is making the recording, how can it also show up in the picture?

After the children commandeer the ship, Kirk beams two security guards down to the planet to relieve those on duty. He is unaware that the Enterprise is no longer orbiting Triacus.

Does that seem right?

Shouldn't there be some sort of sensor check to make sure the actual destination is truly there prior to transporting?

I know this was addressed in a previous comment, but it's in the Nitpicker's Guide.

Sensing the captain is being consumed by a fear of losing command, Mr. Spock hurries him off the bridge and into the turbolift.

The turbolift not only starts up without any instructions from Kirk or Spock, it also guesses their destination and takes them there.

Item : Didn't anyone on the turbolift in the first season have to touch a handle in the turbolift in order to operate it?

I always thought that the scientists habitats on Triacus were truly underwhelming. They were barely a step up from a tent. They looked totally inadequate for families to live in over time.

At least the buildings we see for the scientific station on Gamma Hydra IV in "The Deadly Years" looked bigger and somewhat more suitable.

The other issue I had was the flag design for the Federation of Planets that Kirk plants into the ground. Never cared for it all. Devoid of color.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
The departure of the Enterprise from Triacus strands two security guards on the planet. No mention is ever made of going back for them.

After the children commandeer the ship, Kirk beams two security guards down to the planet to relieve those on duty. He is unaware that the Enterprise is no longer orbiting Triacus.

Shouldn't there be some sort of sensor check to make sure the actual destination is truly there prior to transporting?

You're right, and other episodes have made it plain that the transporter imployed precise sensors to determine the exact point on a planet they were transporting anything down to.

I don't remember for sure, but I think the children used their powers to fool the transporter chief into thinking he was sending the men down to the planet the Enterprise actually left.

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scotpens
Starship Captain


Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 871
Location: The Left Coast

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
. . . The other issue I had was the flag design for the Federation of Planets that Kirk plants into the ground. Never cared for it all. Devoid of color.

It's a very generic-looking pennant that could have been designed by a middle-school art student.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3400
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I thought too, scotpens.

It's an unremarkable design.

Do the stars represent the member planets that comprise the UFP? Does the color of the flag represent anything at all?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Star Trek on Television All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group