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TNG episode #13 - Datalore

 
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Bogmeister
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject: TNG episode #13 - Datalore Reply with quote

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DATALORE episode #13, first season / Air Date: 1/18/88
written by Robert Lewin, Gene Roddenberry; Directed by Rob Bowman





Here was the first show-up of Lore (also played by Brent Spiner), the android built just before Data and physically identical to him (except for a facial twitch — I never did get this).

Because the Enterprise is in the vicinity of Omicron Theta, Picard decides to visit the planet where Data was built/born. The scientific colony which used to be there is gone and the planet has been devastated (by what we would later learn is called The Crystalline Entity, a massive lifeform that flits through outer space).

Inside the deserted underground base, the landing party finds the parts which make up Lore. Of course, they decide to bring the parts back up to the ship and construct the android — with Data anxious to find out if he has a brother (anxious? An emotion?).

__

This was a chance for Spiner to act out an evil twin (it was Spiner's idea also. The original story involved a female-shaped android). This worked to Spiner's benefit and to ours — he clearly enjoyed the opportunity to present a nasty version of an android. All his scenes as Lore are very entertaining — there's nothing deep here, no exploration as to why Lore is so different from Data, besides that elusive emotion chip — and there's some tension as we wait for Lore to make his move.

In the end, Spiner succeeds in creating a completely different persona as Lore — snide, duplicitous, over-confident and thoroughly unpleasant.

__

As a result, there are quite a few memorable moments in this one. All the adults treat Wesley like a moron here, even as he's the one who first suspects Lore of not being on the up-&-up. This leads to Picard telling the kid to shut-up. As a drawback, however, the adults are kind of slow on the uptake in this one.

The sort-of-fight-scene in the turbolift with Lore and Worf is a kick — now we know how tough such an android really is. And the finale with Lore and Data is also rather high in the action quotient, more so than the usual first season episode.

__

Yeah, it ends up a simple action thriller with contrived subplots (the face twitch, the whole thing with differing speech patterns for the androids, the cluelessness), geared towards kids maybe, but I still liked parts of it.

BoG's Score: 6 out of 10



BoG
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: TNG episode #13: Datalore Reply with quote

Bogmeister wrote:
The original story involved a female-shaped android.

Hmmm . . . That's intriguing.

Since we learned in episode 2 that Data was "fully functional" (when he and Tasha did the wild monkey dance together in that episode), one can't escape the funny (and slightly disturbing) mental image of Data and a female android who resembled "her" brother committing android incest to determine if Dataleena was also fully functional — up to and including the ability to produce a "Data Jr."!

Of course, the little artificial rug rat would need to be able to grow somehow, but perhaps that problem could be dealt with by having his positronic brain come equipped with schematics and blueprints for "replacement bodies" he could build each year and then transfer his database (personality/character/knowledge) into it as he "grew up".

Each time he "moved into" the larger/older version of himself, he would have the choice of either dismantling his "younger self" or allowing it to continuing its existence.

If the "younger self" was allowed to continue his existence, he could then go to work building a second one-year-older version, while the first "older self" went on to learn new skills and have new experience for a year before creating his next "older self" — again, somewhat bigger and more mature.

In this manner, a succession of Data Jr. offspring would "grow and mature" until the oldest of them reached maturity and appeared to be as old as Data. This version would have all memories and knowledge he acquired from his origin as a baby, all the way through his successive bodies until the present.

Meanwhile, all the more-recently constructed "offspring" would be learning and maturing while they constructed the next body each one would build-and-then-inhabit, just like the original "baby" did until he reached maturity! Very Happy

This crazy variation on normal procreation and "android ancestry" would result in Data and Dataleen having more and more children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. etc. — even though only one android was produced by a "mother and father'! All the rest would be constructed by their own successive "younger selves"! Shocked

And yes, by God . . . I'm getting a headache too from trying to picture this crazy idea!
Sad
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Pow
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Datalore" Trivia.

As already noted, the original plan was to have a female, non~lookalike android love interest for Data in this episode.

She was programmed to go into dangerous situations and repair them.

"Apocalypse Anon" was the original title for this episode.

This episode would be the final writer credit for Gene Roddenberry before his passing on October 24, 1991.

Brent Spiner convinced the producers and director Rob Bowman that it would make a more intriguing episode by changing the female android to Data's brother Lore.

In the original concept for Data it was to have been an unknown alien race that constructed he & Lore.

Later on that idea was altered to have Data & Lore created by genius human scientist & cybernetics expert Dr. Noonian Soong.

Data's positronic brain was an homage to the legendary s~f writer Isaac Asimov.

We learn that Data spent four years at Starfleet Academy, three years as ensign, and ten or twelve years in the lieutenant grades.

Data & Lore were portrayed by four different actors including Brent Spiner.

Andrew Probert created the concept drawings for the Crystalline Entity. He found that the model makers did not adhere to his design and came up with something totally different.

First time we see Data's quarters on board the Enterprise-D. Later episodes would show a much different looking quarters for Data.

I always preferred the idea that Data & Lore were created by aliens instead of a human being.

The concept first surfaced with Gene Roddenberry's TV-movie/pilot "The Questor Tapes." In that made-for-television movie, the android known as Questor had been created by an alien civilization.

Somehow, Data, for me, seemed to be so technically advanced that I had a hard time buying that a lone human being could build such a sophisticated artificial intelligence.

I know, if they had star ships, warp drive, and transporters systems then they surely could create a lifelike humanoid.

It seems to me that creating such a human-like A.I. would be more complex & arduous to pull off even in that era.
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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just finished the first part of Best of Both Worlds again! It's still a wonderful episode and clearly the one Borg episode a year for TNG certainly enhanced their reputation!
JB
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Pow
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitpicks

Are the engineers running diagnostics on the communication systems during this episode?

Twice Picard sends someone to fetch Data instead of simply paging the android via the comm-badge on his uniform.

As Data practices his sneezing, Wesley asks if Data has a cold? Realizing that Data does not understand the question, Wesley explains that it was a disease that his mom said people "used to get."

If people no longer suffer at all from colds, why would Wesley ask Data if he had one?

And why would Wesley think that an android could even have a cold in the first place? Does Wesley attribute the sneezing Data is doing to some kind of mechanical issue that manifests itself as sneezing?

Wouldn't the definition of a cold be in Data's memory banks? Why would Data not know what a cold is in the first place?

Shortly after arriving at Omicron Theta, La Forge proclaims that the soil is almost completely lifeless. Moments earlier, Riker states in his log that the world is completely dead.
Shouldn't the sophisticated scanners indicate as to whether the soil is almost dead or totally dead, but not both?

Picard's & Riker's attitudes toward Wesley seem a bit odd in this episode. Riker trusts Wesley to send him to check on Data & Lore, but neither the captain or first officer seem interested in hearing what Wesley has to say later on.

At the conclusion of this episode we see Wesley transport Lore into outer space. He obviously did not disperse Lore's pattern because the android shows up later in the episode "Brothers." So why didn't Wesley disperse Lore's pattern?

Why did the Enterprise just leave Lore? Couldn't sensors pick him up and then Picard could have him beamed to the ship's brig?

Lore is obviously intelligent, self-aware, and probably conscious. Doesn't he deserve the right to a trial as that of any sentient being under the charter of the Federation of Planets? We're told time and again throughout all the Star Trek TV series that all life is to be respected & protected.

Subsequent episodes, such as "The Measure of a Man" and "The Offspring" reveal that Starfleet would love to have more than one Data. Yet, for some reason, in the twenty-six years that Data has been associated with Starfleet, no one has bothered to revisit the android's home world.

Does this seem logical?

I would also add that this fact should be another reason not to retrieve Lore from space. Aside from the humane reasons Lore should be brought back to the Enterprise, Starfleet could examine and study Lore in the hopes of replicating Soong's work.

When Data pick's up Lore's head, you can see that Lore's ears are missing. Soong claimed in the episode "Brothers" that Data & Lore were identical except for a bit of programming. Yet Data tells Dr. Crusher in "Unification I" that his ears are not detachable.

Lore fires on Crusher as she flees the cargo bay and the doors automatically open.

Then how come we see that Picard, Riker, Data, and Yar all must press a panel beside the cargo bay door before it will open?
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
Wouldn't the definition of a cold be in Data's memory banks? Why would Data not know what a cold is in the first place?

I can't resist the urge to suggest that if data got a "computer virus" it might make him sneeze! Rolling Eyes

Actually, the idea isn't totally facetious! The purpose of a computer virus is to disrupt the system and prevent it from functioning properly.

Consider this.

When I'm trying to compose intelligent comments on All Sci-Fi, I can't concentrate when I have any kind of distraction.

That includes diabetic foot pain caused by my type 2 diabetes, high-or-low blood sugar levels, fatigue caused by a poor nights sleep, or . . . a cold which causes a runny nose and frequent sneezing!

So, if Data's sophisticated system acquired a computer virus which was designed to impair his human-like nature, the perfect way to disguise his digital malady would be make it look like a "cold"!

Data's obsession with becoming more human would cause him to not recognize the artificial nature of his "cold". Sad

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
"Datalore" Trivia.

Somehow, Data, for me, seemed to be so technically advanced that I had a hard time buying that a lone human being could build such a sophisticated artificial intelligence.

I know, if they had star ships, warp drive, and transporters systems then they surely could create a lifelike humanoid.

It seems to me that creating such a human-like A.I. would be more complex & arduous to pull off even in that era.

Explain, please. Very Happy

Did you mean to say that in the 23rd Century "they surely could create a lifelike humanoid" — or that — "creating such a human-like A.I. would be more complex & arduous to pull off".

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Pow
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel that even in the 23rd century that constructing such a life-like android as Data would not realistically be within our grasp.

Then on top of that fact we have one single individual (Dr. Noonian Soong) able to do it without the massive resources of the Federation or alien planet.

Just all seemed like a stretch to me even though I greatly enjoyed Brent Spinner as Data, Lore and Dr. Soong. The roles all displayed just what a nuanced actor he was.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Mike, my good friend, you seem to be forgetting the well accepted edict stated below.
_______________________________

Moore's Law states that the number of transistors on a microchip doubles about every two years, though the cost of computers is halved. In 1965, Gordon E. Moore, the co-founder of Intel, made this observation that became known as Moore's Law.
______________________________

This profound observation has become the assumption that (for example) by the 23rd century, the computing power of the human race will have doubled 100 times (once every two years).

Computers are that much powerful than ours today won't even need mankind to design androids which are indistinguishable from you and me! Very Happy

Mike, when we were kids, a computer was a giant machine which had thousands of moving part, took hours to solve problems, and required a lot of electrify.

Today our commercially sold computers are far superior to those antiquated machines . . . and yet we all own one which we can hold in our hands or place in our laps — powered by batteries or household current.

Forgive me, Mike, but based on the lessons we've learn during our own life times, how could we possibly think that in 200 years our technology won't be so far advanced of what we have today that there isn't anything we could imagine that it can't be capable of!! Shocked

Frankly, I suspect that mankind will have become a "minority" by then. I'm actually worried that we won't even around!
Shocked
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
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Krel
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Star Trek seemed to have prohibitions against certain technologies which have gone underground. We learn from DS9 that genetic engineering is forbidden, but the knowledge is there, and people will get it from underground doctors. The AI and robotic technology seem to be stunted, although I do not see how starships could be operated without them. But you see very few robots, especially human form robots in the series, and when you do it usually doesn't end well.

So I can believe that there is an underground dark web of technology in the Federation, with scientists doing research into prohibited technologies and sharing it. And knowledge from those forbidden technologies was used to construct Data.

David.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
. . . we have one single individual (Dr. Noonian Soong) able to [create Data without the massive resources of the Federation or alien planets.

Look at it this way, Mike. Very Happy

Noonian Soong did have the resources of the Federation and technology from other civilizations! For example, he would possess a computer that contained a vast amount of data pertaining to the creation of complex androids like Data.

In addition to this, he would have a laboratory which was equipped with 3D printers, robotic assembly machines, and whatever else he needed.

So, Noonian Soong would be able to "create" Data in cyberspace, a computer simulation which mirrored everything his physical creation could do.

Once he was certain that his complex creation would be fully functional, he could direct his 23rd century mechanisms to build an android which was far superior to those constructed by other scientists who were not able to comceive ground-breaking innovations like the positron brain.

In other words, Data was created by the combined efforts of Noonian Soong's unique genius and a 23rd century AI system which was capable of both understanding the man's unique new concepts and physically constructing the android, based on this designs.

In a way, Mike, this would analogous to how Michelangelo created his incredible statue of David using the same simple tools and materials that every other artist in the world possessed.

But Michelangelo alone was capable of this remarkable feat.




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