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The Tholian Web - episode #64
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Bogmeister
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: The Tholian Web - episode #64 Reply with quote

____________
_________________________ Tholian Ship


__________





The Enterprise and crew enter a region of space where space itself phases in and out. This involves some kind of dimensional warping, one of the more wilder science fiction concepts which moves a story beyond simply space travel.

Another starship, the Defiant, and her crew have already fallen victim to this dimensional/spatial malady. The other ship fluctuates in and out of view. Kirk beams over to the shifting Defiant with Spock, McCoy and Chekov.

We get to see the crew wear funky spacesuits in this one; their fear in this one is ending up in a vacuum.

In an eerie sequence of scenes, we see that the Defiant's crew appears to have killed each other. This shifting dimensional space also affects the brains of humans, causing a degeneration into insanity. These and later scenes recall the bouts of insanity in Is There in Truth no Beauty? earlier this same season.



Unfortunately, Kirk should have left Chekov on the Enterprise; Scotty is able to beam back only 3 of them at a time and the Defiant fades away before they can get Kirk back — he's gone, as in — all the way gone (there's something about the number 3 on this show, I declare). Spock and the rest have to assume eventually that Kirk is lost in the line of duty. They even hold a funeral service for Kirk later - it's not the most quiet service; yes, this is Kirk's final episode . . . just kidding. But, before that, the Tholians show up. They're territorial and want the Enterprise outta there!




As with quite a few of the episodes in the 3rd season, this is saddled with a snail pace in spots, but the alien Tholians almost compensate for this rather dreary tone. While we were still seeing actors dressed up with lame appliances on their heads & faces 20 and 25 years later on the later series (TNG, DS9, etc.) as a display of alien representatives, here we see a truly innovative attempt at visualizing an alien race, complete with an unusual audio signature. You won't soon forget the Tholians, including their leader, Loskene (a great name, as well).


_____________________________ Loskeen


__________


Their energy web — well, that's another matter. While this looks cool at first glance, it seems to me that this tactic would work only if an enemy vessel sat unmoving for an hour or two, not using its weaponry. How often does that happen? The web strategy, like many scenes in this episode, has a draggy somnambulant tonality, though one may get hypnotized by the patterns developed.



This episode is also unusual in that Kirk shows up only in the pre-credits scenes and the first act, then he disappears until the last 5 minutes of the episode (not counting his appearances as a ghost). Hence, we observe a new group dynamic shifting into place to fill in the gap.

Spock & McCoy further their tense relationship, while Scotty moves in to complete a new trinity. There's an interesting scene with the trio in Spock's quarters near the end, just before final maneuvers are to be made, and Scotty walks off with obvious plans to get drunk.

I found some of the interaction between Spock & McCoy to be a bit too extreme, as if McCoy had gone a little over the deep end with Kirk's presumed death. He makes some accusatory statements towards Spock which were out of character. However, everyone was going a little crazy in this region of space, especially Chekov. (Boy, that guy can really scream, can't he?)



In all, another venture into the possible dangers of deep space exploration, some of which we may not expect.

Extra Trek Trivia: This episode won an Emmy for special FX; artist Mike Minor contributed to the episode.

There was a kind of sequel to this episode in the final season of the Enterprise series, in the episode In a Mirror,Darkly, where it was shown that the Defiant had re-appeared 100 years earlier in the parallel universe first seen in Mirror, Mirror.

BoG's Score: 7 out of 10





BoG
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Krel
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago, I read an interview with William Ware Theiss. In it he said that the four space suits they made, busted the costume budget for the season. Laughing

David.
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Pow
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original title for TTW was "In Essence - Nothing."

The original name for the other star ship was Scimitar.

In the first drafts of the script it was to be Mr. Spock who would vanish into space limbo.

Director Ralph Senesky was fired while directing this episode.

Herb Wallerstein then took over the directing chores.

The cast had to be sewn into their spacesuits due to Gene Roddenberry's edict of not wanting to see zippers, hooks, or any kind of fasteners on futuristic clothing.

Leonard Nimoy ad~libbed the line "Renowned Tholian punctuality."

The bodies of the crew of the Defiant are all carefully staged so as not to show the uniform badges for the Defiant. This was a cost saving measure so as not to have to create unique badges which the Defiant crew would require since they are different from the Enterprise badges.

This would be corrected many years later on ST: E where we once again encounter the Defiant and see just what their uniform badges would look like.

All & all, TTW is one of the rare good episodes to come out of a dismal third season.


Last edited by Pow on Mon Aug 19, 2024 8:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
The cast had to be sewn into their spacesuits due to Gene Roddenberry's edict of not wanting to see zippers,hooks,or any kind of fasteners on futuristic clothing.

The bodies of the crew of the Defiant are all carefully staged so as not to show the uniform badges for the Defiant.

This was a cost saving measure so as not to have to create unique badges which the Defiant crew would require since they are different from the Enterprise badges.

The space suits were based on the skintight Space Activity Suits that NASA was working on at the time. The design was shelved because that proper fabric didn't exist for the design to work. The modern version is the BioSuit, which is being developed by Darva Newman at MIT.

Matt Jefferies intended for the Enterprise emblem to be the Star Fleet emblem. For some reason, G.R. dropped that.

David.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Although season three had more than it's share of disappointing episodes, I think the seven listed below are quite good.
________________________________

The Enterprise Incident

The Paradise Syndrome

For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky

The Tholian Web

Wink of an Eye

Elaan of Troyius

The Cloud Minders

________________________________

The were about three I considered putting on my list but decided not to. Would anyone like to suggest which episodes they think should be include? Very Happy

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
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Pow
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud, I would listed Spectre of the Gun, Day of the Dove, The Savage Curtain, and All Our Yesterdays as better-than-average third season episodes.

Mind you, I'm not championing these episodes as fantastic by any means. However, they all had intriguing concepts even if they were not executed well.

The third season suffered due to severe budget reductions for the series. Paramount Pictures had bought Desilu & the new sheriff in town wasn't going to be understanding or forgiving of the production of the show.

Gene Roddenberry distanced himself from ST: TOS as the season went on due to his constant battles with NBC.
He saw the handwriting on the wall and it said that the network did not care for the series and wanted it gone.

There were also key changes with the crew that also worked against ST too.

As I've said, I ain't wild about most of the third season. I do understand that within the context of what was going on behind the scenes with new corporate owners, slashed budgets, and Gene's departure as well as other key folks that the third season just never really had a chance.


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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, let's hear it for Day of The Dove!!! Very Happy
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

IMDB has several interesting trivia items for this production. Very Happy
________________________________

~ According to James Doohan, NBC executives told him to comb his hair back for the third season. Doohan hated wearing his hair this way and stopped doing so during the filming of The Tholian Web.

Note from me: How frustrating! I can sort-of understand a director asking an actor to do something as personal as this — but why the hell would NBC executives give a womp rat's ass about how Doohan wears his hair?

~ This episode introduced the environmental suit. These suits were created by costume designer William Ware Theiss and consisted of silver lamé with a fabric helmet with screen mesh visor.

Since these outfits were meant to be seen only in NTSC resolution, someone came up with the ingenious solution of making the "window" out of mesh. Mesh would provide the diffusion to make it seem there was something clear and solid in front of the actor's face and reflections and recording dialog would be no problem.

The way the shows were broadcast back then, it would provide successful illusion of a solid face plate for the most part. It was not until DVD, which achieved the highest quality of NTSC resolution that the use of mesh became much more noticeable. And now, with high definition resolution, you can see the texture and wrinkling of the mesh quite easily.


Note from me: I like to assume that the mesh was enveloped in a force field which held in the suit's pressure. That way the force field could be switched off the moment the man was back in a pressured environment, allowing the wearer to breath the air around him and talk normally to other suit wearers and people not in suits. Cool

~ The remastered version of "The Tholian Web" aired in many North American markets during the weekend of 31 March 2007. Some of the effects shots were virtual recreations of the original footage, whereas others were more dynamic and showed angles of both starships never before seen.

The Tholian starship retained the essential design elements of the original model, but more detail and internal lights were added. The scene involving Commander Loskene was left intact and no new images of the Tholians were shown.


Note from me: For reasons which escape me, some folks don't care for the enhanced special effects. Frankly I was no lom=nger able to enjoy Star Trek TOS prior to new DVDs. I've pwned tapes or DVDs of the old version.

The reason was that the effects looked dated and poorly done — and frankly they'd never impressed me much even in the 1960s. Rolling Eyes

The news ones, however, are pure artwork — and I love 'em all! Very Happy







I'm not sure this last one is an actual screenshot from a remastered TOS episode, but it does demonstrate the kind of FX that DO impress me.
Very Happy





They remind me a little of the illustrations I created with Microsoft Paint and Paint.net for my novel, The Wishbone Express.





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~ The Space Children (1958)
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Krel
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
~ This episode introduced the environmental suit. These suits were created by costume designer William Ware Theiss and consisted of silver lamé with a fabric helmet with screen mesh visor.

Since these outfits were meant to be seen only in NTSC resolution, someone came up with the ingenious solution of making the "window" out of mesh. Mesh would provide the diffusion to make it seem there was something clear and solid in front of the actor's face and reflections and recording dialog would be no problem.

The way the shows were broadcast back then, it would provide successful illusion of a solid face plate for the most part. It was not until DVD, which achieved the highest quality of NTSC resolution that the use of mesh became much more noticeable. And now, with high definition resolution, you can see the texture and wrinkling of the mesh quite easily.


Note from me: I like to assume that the mesh was enveloped in a force field which held in the suit's pressure. That way the force field could be switched off the moment the man was back in a pressured environment, allowing the wearer to breath the air around him and talk normally to other suit wearers and people not in suits. Cool

William Ware Theiss said that the suit costumes blew the costuming budget for the show for the season. Laughing

Even back then on a a B&W TV, it was obvious that they used screening for the helmet visors. The visible wrinkles in the screens didn't help the illusion. Laughing

I thought that the screens gave the suits a different look. It was the 26th/27th century, who knows what the screens were suppose to represent. The screens had the added advantage of providing airflow to the actors (a problem with movie & TV spacesuits) and making their faces visible. Back then they didn't put lights in space helmets.

"Lexx" did them one better where they used what looks like mosquito netting on a helmet for their spacesuit faceplate. Laughing

This is still my favorite S.T. spacesuit, and one of the top spacesuit designs I like. I also like the suits (modified motorcycle clothing) and helmets (motorcycle helmets?) in "Planet of the Vampires'.

David.
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scotpens
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
For reasons which escape me, some folks don't care for the enhanced special effects. Frankly I was no longer able to enjoy Star Trek TOS prior to new DVDs. I've pwned tapes or DVDs of the old version.

The reason was that the effects looked dated and poorly done — and frankly they'd never impressed me much even in the 1960s. Rolling Eyes

The news ones, however, are pure artwork — and I love 'em all! Very Happy

The digital Enterprise looks like fair-quality game animation at best, and what the CGI artists did to Matt Jefferies' beautiful, smooth Klingon cruiser is a travesty.

Guess we're always going to disagree on that one.
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Pow
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitpicker's Guide

During the mission to the Defiant, Dr. McCoy is able to pass his hand through a deceased crewmen and a table in sick bay. Why aren't the floors fading from reality as well?

As part of the playful banter at the end of the episode, Mr. Spock & Dr. McCoy act as if they did not listen to Kirk's final taped orders. Spock, in fact, purposely deceives the captain into thinking this. What happened to "Vulcans never lie?"

Me: I also wondered if Kirk was able to determine that Spock & McCoy were indeed in his quarters while Kirk was missing, and that they played his recorded message.

Wouldn't a captain's quarters have security codes that someone would have used in his absence? And wouldn't such codes be recorded so that the captain could check on 'em later on?
Same for his recorded tape?

What about a security camera and its footage?

After Kirk beams aboard in the finale after returning from the Defiant, Dr. McCoy immediately gives him a hypo right through his spacesuit.
Isn't a spacesuit designed to be impervious to air and liquid?

A porous spacesuit is as effective as the old screen door on a submarine.

Me: Maybe someone already pointed this out, but as cool looking as the Tholian Web energy prison looks, does it really make any sense against an enemy?

What enemy star ship would remain stock still and let such an energy web be constructed around 'em? The only reason the Enterprise allowed it was they were trying not to disturb the space around them in order to retrieve Captain Kirk. So they did attempt to flee, fire phasers or photon torpedoes, use tractor beams. They did not dare twitch an inch as such a disturbance could adversely affect their ability to rescue the captain.

Add to that that a ship could also summon help while the Tholians slowly weave their energy web.

I suppose such a web would be effective if the enemy vessel was unable to fight or run. Does that situation come up a lot for the Tholian Assembly?



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Pow
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched the video comparison on Youtube for "The Tholian Webb." The left hand side of the screen shows the original effects for the series while the right had side shows the newly remastered CGI effects for the episode.

I thought the Tholian star ship design was finer and more detailed with the new FX.

The effect for the Federation Star Ship Defiant as it was fading due to it being in an area of unstable space was actually quite good for both the original effects and the remastered ones.

The Tholian energy web was also quite good for both the original and CGI versions.

The Enterprise's phaser is cleaner and (literally) sharper in the CGI version compared to the original.

The Tholian vessel's protective screens and the energy weapon it fires at the Enterprise is also well done in both iterations. But I prefer the newer version.

Same for the Tholian Web itself. Old & new versions are well done.

Got a kick out of the Tholian ship captain's look for this episode. The unusual effect for the alien on screen was unusual and original.
Was that a helmet or was that the alien itself I wondered at the time.

Since then we saw on Star Trek: Enterprise in an episode that the Tholian we see done entirely by CGI did not wear a helmet.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
After Kirk beams aboard in the finale after returning from the Defiant, Dr. McCoy immediately gives him a hypo right through his spacesuit.

Isn't a spacesuit designed to be impervious to air and liquid?

A porous spacesuit is as effective as the old screen door on a submarine.

It's the future, I would think that they would have self-sealing suits for accidents or if the wearer needed medical treatment.

David.
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scotpens
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
The third season suffered due to severe budget reductions for the series. Paramount Pictures had bought Desilu & the new sheriff in town wasn't going to be understanding or forgiving of the production of the show.

Technically, that's not quite accurate. Paramount and Desilu were both acquired by the same parent company, the conglomerate Gulf and Western. With the two studios next door to each other, it made sense to merge them into a single production facility. Desilu then became Paramount Television.
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Pow
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TV Guide spotlight.

This episode win an Emmy nomination for special optical effects (frame-by-frame animation by Van der Veer Photo Special Effects, Hollywood).

Mr. Spock takes command of the Enterprise when Captain Kirk vanishes in limbo between two space fields.

As Kirk appears and disappears with ghostly irregularity, Spock's rescue operations are hampered by the crew's mysterious madness and by alien spacecraft, slowly weaving a deadly web around the disabled Enterprise.

Sidebar: TV Guide was incorrect in stating the Enterprise was disabled. It was not. It remained situated in outer space without moving, even as the Tholian vessels formed their captive energy web around the Federation starship, because they were forced to remain stationary in order to not disturb space in any way. This was so that they could successfully retrieve Kirk.

The TV Guide also made another error with this article. They showed a photo of the Enterprise upside down!
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