ALL SCI-FI

[Pow]

JMS has recently said in interviews that he will be doing this new B5 "from the ground up." He is taking the original show's premise but doing it with a new cast. While it follows some of the original premise, he'll also be writing new & original stories and taking different turns and directions along the way compared to the original B5.

So it doesn't sound as if he'll be bringing in the old cast to this new iteration.

However, he's a clever writer. I won't count out any of the old cast as a for sure deal. Time will tell.

[Bud Brewster]

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Well, well . . . now I'm starting to get excited about this new series!

I've never been a fan of Babylon 5, so I've struggled to think of something to add to this fine thread . . . other than a lame comment like "I've never been a fan of B5" — which no fan of a series wants to hear from some damn knucklehead who is not!

My complaint has always been the same troubling fact that kept me away from liking Deep Space Nine.

Shows about space stations, like shows and movies that take place in a small towns, are largely character driven. That's fine . . . but the town doesn't go anywhere!

Conversely, shows about starships (like TOS) move from place to place and allow the regular characters to see new places and new people — after which they warp out of oribit and zip across the galaxy to boldly go where no man jack has gone before, dammit!

See my point?

Shows about space stations can be as charming as an the Andy Hardy movies — which I actually love.

But shows about starships are like Route 66 and Smokey and the Bandit!


]


See my point?
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Pow]

JMS wanted to tell the B5 story of the rise, fall, and rise again of civilizations. He realized it would be too epic and costly for television.

That is, until he realized that by focusing the story of a space station and its characters and their relationships with one another, how they managed to survive in this "tin can," and how the epic story impacted them individually and collectively could make it all work.

He would take an enormous tapestry and boil it all down to space station that was like an outer space United Nations.

JMS said that he was fascinated by the process that caused the rise and fall of civilizations, the consequences of war, diplomatic breakdowns, individual egos & flaws, and all the elements that contribute to war.

He felt that many science fiction TV shows start with: here are the bad guys, here are the good guys and they never evolve past that point.

He wanted to take all of his characters on personal journeys, show how beings can and do change over the course of time for both good and bad.

He also wanted to take B5 on a journey itself and employ a five year arc in doing so. This was something pretty much unheard of in episodic television at the time.

[Gord Green]

Pow....A perfect analysis of B5!
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Bud Brewster]

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At the risk of revealing a flaw in my intelligence, I actually have trouble keeping the plot elements straight in movies and books which have extremely complex story structures.

Just to make my point, when watching a TV series with many characters and a convoluted story structure with interconnect episodes, I do MUCH better when I binge watch numerous episodes in a single sitting.

This helps me retain the details of past events, not to mention character names which get confusing.

Sometimes I'll even pull up the plot summary on Wikipedia of a complicated movie an read along with the movie (or even ahead of it . . . ) just to keep everything straight in my poor empty head.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[trekriffic]

[Pow]

Thanks Gord & trekriffic for the compliments.

Bud, I don't think you're alone at all with trying to follow and comprehend complicated plots in movies or television. I know I sometimes do.

I gave up on Lost after a few seasons because I felt it became absurdly convoluted and complex to follow any longer.

I believe that some of these TV show creators get all caught up in being so clever and artsy-fartsy with their stories that they lose sight of the fact that the audience is losing sight.

I don't want simple spoon-fed ideas, but I also don't crave incomprehensible & dense story lines either.

These guys at Lost, I've read, were so darn imaginative that one of 'em said in an interview that they had never conceived of how the series would end!!! Why not?

And from what I've read, the finale was an enormous letdown to the fans that, unlike me, were loyal and hung in until the show ended.

JMS plotted his B5 from the beginning to the end because he had a vision for it. He gave himself some leeway to explore different avenues along the way. But the man always knew where he was going and I can respect him for that, unlike the Lost creators.

Bud, have to disagree with your classification of shows based on space stations not being intriguing due to the station going anywhere; while star ship premises can allow the cast to go anywhere & keep it fresh.

It always comes down to the writing, always.

Now the creators of B5 & ST: DSN knew that they realistically could not confine their respective series entirely to the space stations in question.

B5 got into the Vorlarn & Shadow Wars, along with the Narn & Centauri War (which was a chess piece between the Vorlans & Shadows).

So we actually did manage to see a number of episodes involving being on other ships and other planets. B5 had secret spy vessel the White Star that went on numerous missions.

Over at ST: DSN we had the Dominion War. This involved numerous trips on the star ship Defiant. There were also a number of other stories which involved the cast going to other planets in plots not related to the Dominion War.

So both series knew they could not run for years and be strictly confined to their space stations. I don't believe any writer---no matter how talented---could manage to pull off such a feat.

Shows we saw where a star ship could go anywhere were never guarantees for good entertainment.

I give you the original Lost In Space (whenever they did manage to get off that planet they first crashed on), the original Battlestar Ponderosa, uh, Galactica, and Andromeda.

They were all shows that rarely did anything with their premises even with the ability to fly through outer space.

This goes back to the disagreement you & I had regarding the Irwin Allen sci-fi TV-movie/pilot The City Beneath The Sea.

Interesting premise but I questioned how they could make a weekly television show, confined to a single undersea city, very compelling. If this had been picked up as a series they'd have to do exactly what they did on both B5 & ST: DSN. They'd have to establish ways to get away from the city that doesn't go anywhere.

They'd require futuristic Seaviews or SeaQuest types of submarines to go on adventures. If not, the show is going to quickly become very tired & stale.

Whether a space station or underwater complex; the writer better make sure you can leave from time to time, or the audience will.

[Gord Green]

Pow, You said it all that the key element is the writing!

There's a saying in the Theatre that "If it's not on the page, it's not on the stage!".

Of course the skill of the actors portraying the characters is important, but the character initially comes from the writer!
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[trekriffic]

As relates to DS9, in addition to the Defiant, you also had the holodecks which could take you to places and times not even a starship could take you.

[Bud Brewster]

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Wow, Mike, we definitely think alike!

I had the same bad experience with Lost.

As for "starships" versus "space stations", it's not that I just need more starships in the space station shows. I just love the way Star Trek TOS gave us a weekly Grand Tour of the Galaxy, aboard such a great ship, with a great crew.

Be the way, Netflix removed Star Trek TOS from their streaming list today. Damn.

Actually it's ALL the Trek series. Here's an article about.

3 Star Trek Series Leaving Netflix In September

I'll have to go back and look at the City Beneath the Sea thread to refresh my memory concerning our difference of opinion about that one, I could have sworn I agreed with you.

Meanwhile, take a look at what I posted below. It might help clarify my Need for Warp Speed. My Galactic Wanderlust. My Tendency to be Itchin' for Scenery Switchin'.

[Pow]

J. Michael Straczynski said that it took him five years to sell Babylon 5 as he went from network to network.

He was often told that such a show as he proposed could never be done. He was also told that the market only had room for one science fiction show and that was Star Trek.

JMS's friend Walter Koenig informed him that an executive at Paramount Studios told him that they were developing a Star Trek series that would be set on a space station.

It was a deliberate assault on B5 by Paramount. Paramount told the syndicated stations that if they wanted to carry Star Trek: Deep Space Nine that they'd better not also carry B5.

JMS said that Paramount attempted to strangle B5 in the cradle every way they could.

JMS wanted to sue Paramount for infringement but was counseled by Warner Brothers that if they did that, Paramount would only counter-sue and that everything would end up in litigation and sink both series.

JMS saw B5 as his big chance to realize his unique vision for producing his dream, so he relented.

Cast member Peter Jurasic (Londo Molineri) attended a party where he met a cast member from ST: DSN. They told him that their cast realized that their show came about as a result of B5 and that their cast sincerely wished everyone on B5 the best of luck.

Looks like they had some real bastard executives over there at Paramount. Makes me even happier that B5 managed a five year run.

[Pow]

J. Michael Straczynski : "The sole commodity a writer has is their courage."

JMS said that most science fiction TV shows established humanity at the top of the species ladder. B5 put humans closer to the bottom.

91 of the 110 episode scripts written for B5 were by JMS. No other sci-fi writer for episodic television has achieved this. "It damn near killed me," JMS

The series always managed to come in under budget due to JMS & his team's methodical planning & execution. For JMS this proved to the networks that a science fiction TV series could be produced without breaking the bank in the process, which is what networks always complained about.

Babylon 5 was the first science fiction show to create an arc to their story lines. Few shows of any genre did that at that time. B5 can be noted as the inspiration for arc-type series such as Lost.

[johnnybear]

Gene Rodenberry had the same problem when he was trying to sell Star Trek back in 1964/65! He was told they already had plans for a sci-fi show about a spaceship. But I'll bet they ripped off a few ideas that Rodenberry had pitched to them in the interview...
JB

[Krel]

[Pow]

JMS had created the Londo character with a slight rise for the aliens hairstyle. As a joke the make-up artist showed JMS how much cooler it would be to have the hair raised much more than JMS's original intention.

JMS, unaware that he was being put on, gave the okay for the more pronounced hair on Londo. It wasn't until after the shooting of the pilot that they let JMS in on the joke. JMS swore revenge.

JMS said that Londo was one of his favorite characters to write because he was demented. Londo was the character most like me according to JMS.

Over the five years that Babylon 5 would run they were never sure of renewal at the end of each season.

As revenge to the cast members who played practical jokes on JMS, he would lead them to believe from time to time that he was writing a script that killed off their character.
Not nice of me, he said.

JMS: B5 was all about choices, consequences, responsibilities. We all have them in life; even if you do not make a choice, you have made one.

"We all try to live lives where courage isn't necessary." JMS. "Do what scares you." JMS.

JMS has said that he really should not have done either the B5 movies, or Crusade spin-off series.

"Fear of failure, proving I wasn't a one-note writer, allure of working with my terrific crew from B5, not leaving my comfort zone all propelled me into those projects."

"You can fall into your bag of tricks in your writing and end up repeating yourself over-and-over." JMS.

"You need honest friends who will call you out on it." JMS

"My father was an angry, violent, abusive, misogynistic man who met my mother in a bordello where she worked."

"My father's m.o. was to move to some place and run up a lot of bills. When the creditors came calling we would move."
"We were always poor."

"We moved 21 times in 17 years."

"Comic books and novels were my only source of comfort and joy growing up, they were my escape from a highly dysfunctional home life."

"Libraries were my refuge where I'd spend hours reading." "If my father suddenly moved us to a new city or state, I would find the library there. I could be in the middle of one book in one city and then when we relocated I'd continue reading that same book in a new library." "Same book, same cover."

"I was a non-person all through high school, no one ever noticed me." "I went to my 20 year high school reunion and nobody remembered me at all except for one guy who kinda did."

"Words and stories gave me continuity in a life of constant upheaval."

"You write because to not write is suicide."