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The Island at the Top of the World (1974)
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Pow
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David, my deepest condolences to you and your family regarding your brother.

I had a close friend who also died from ALS, so I know personally its devastating toll on the individual and their family and friends.

I pray it will one day soon be eradicated.
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Pow
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Island Factoids.

Differences between the Walt Disney film and the 1961 novel it was based on "The Lost Ones" by Ian Cameron.

The movie takes place in 1907; the novel in 1960.

The movie has the airship Hyperion; the novel has no airship.

In the movie, Freyja leaves with Donald and Sir Anthony and the others when they return to civilization.

Freja dies in the novel saving Donald & Sir Anthony.

The movie was released on December 20, 1974 and its budget was $8,000,000.

Despite Ivarsson's claim in the movie that the Vikings are speaking old Norse, they are really speaking modern Scandinavian.

The great airship Hyperion in the film was named after 2719 Hyperion Avenue, L.A., California. This was the site of Walt Disney's first studio.

Island was nominated by the Academy Awards for Best Art Direction and Best Set Direction.

Island was David Hartman's final film.

I do enjoy this WD movie and own the dvd. However, the FX are hit and miss to me.

The boulder crashing into the hole above the ice covered cavern is spectacular.

The cast running at times in some scenes appeared to actually be on a treadmill...and then the footage was sped up so it almost looked like a Buster Keaton silent comedy film.

The cast going through the field of volcanoes looked phony; as if they walked into a cartoon.

The scene with the cast hiding in a cave up on a bluff was shot on a studio sound stage — and boy, it looked it.

I enjoyed the Hyperion sailing scenes even if at times it did look like exactly what it was; a model.

The Orca attack was well done, though some feel the killer whales were artificial looking. The scene takes place in a fog bound graveyard of whales. It is eerie and suspenseful and frightening during the attack.

The scene with the explosion of the Hyperion is exciting, even if I hated to see the old girl go up like a fireball.

The Viking Hall where we see the statues of the Norse Gods is also awesome looking.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

____________________________________

Mike, I agree with 99% of your comment . . . but not with the last one.


Pow wrote:
The Viking Hall where we see the statues of the Norse Gods is also awesome looking.

The Viking Hall scene didn't impress me. The shots looked too "processed."

Ah well . . . different strokes, eh?
Rolling Eyes
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scotpens
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
. . . Despite Ivarsson's claim in the movie that the Vikings are speaking old Norse, they are really speaking modern Scandinavian.

Well, that's a bit of a letdown. Does anyone know what the Viking characters were actually speaking? Was it Swedish, Danish, Norwegian or Icelandic, or a mix of Scandinavian tongues?
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Pow
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand your finding the Viking Hall Norse God statues scene looking artificial, Bud.

They do indeed look like exactly what they are: a matte painting.

For me its the curious case of enjoying a special effect that looks like a special effect.

I find that with certain visual effects in both film and television that there exists ones that are just magnificent and you buy into the whole scene.

Other FX can simply be mediocre to poor.

However, there exist ones where when I look at it and in some manner and on some level appreciate the beauty of it, even if it does not convey total (or near) realism as intended.

I get that the Viking Hall scene doesn't work for you, it does not make you feel as if the cast is truly standing in an actual structure and seeing gigantic stone statues.

Me? I like looking at it as a gorgeous painting which was unable to achieve the realistic appearance that you and others desired.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
I find that with certain visual effects in both film and television that there exists ones that are just magnificent and you buy into the whole scene.

Other FX can simply be mediocre to poor.

However, there exist ones where when I look at it and in some manner and on some level appreciate the beauty of it, even if it does not convey total (or near) realism as intended.

You've analyzed the situation perfectly, Mike! It's all purely a matter of taste in this case.

For example, I love the way a classic matte painting looks like a painting, not like reality. If the artists did a good job, it's better than "real" as far as I'm concerned.

But in this case it's a matter of the FX obviously presenting a different "scale" for the matted portion, compared to the actors standing below. I was all too aware of the fact that the actors were standing below mattted-in miniatures . . . and that discrepancy always bothers me. Shocked

It's just one of my pet peeves. (Trekriffic has his adorable Egyptian cats, but I have my pet peeves. They frequently poop on the carpet, and I hate it! Rolling Eyes)

However, I love paintings that look like great paintings, and I don't mind miniatures that almost look full-sized by using skilled photographic methods. But I don't like miniatures that are obviously miniatures when they're combined with full-sized elements, because my brain detects the discrepancy. Sad

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some time I've wondered what Disney movies would have been perfect for Ray Harryhausen's acclaimed stop~motion magic.

I considered Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea for the giant squid attack on the Nautilus. However, I wasn't certain how the animated model would work seamlessly with the roiling ocean waves during that scene.

In Search of the Castaways has a giant condor scene where the bird snatches a young boy. That could work but its a relatively brief sequence. It almost reduces Ray's work to a cameo.

Reading Bud's latest post got me to thinking that perhaps IATTOTW might just have been the vehicle for a Disney-Harryhausen collaboration.

Once the intrepid rescue party reached this incredible island there could have been some stop~animated creatures along the way.

Sasquatch, woolly mammouths, something along those lines. I don't think dinosaurs would be exactly right for this production. Creatures that came after their era maybe?
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
Reading Bud's latest post got me to thinking that perhaps IATTOTW might just have been the vehicle for a Disney-Harryhausen collaboration.

Once the intrepid rescue party reached this incredible island there could have been some stop~animated creatures along the way.

Sasquatch, woolly mammoths, something along those lines

You're absolutely right, Pow, for several reasons.

This movie presents a Lost Word which has no "lost world" creatures! Ice age animals would be perfect. Mammoths, sabre toothed tigers, and sloths would jazz up this movie quite a bit.

We could even have the Vikings use the mammoths the way elephants are used in India — for transposition, pack animals, and pulling huge plows with several men riding on them while they tilled the soil.

That would make a very cool scene!

If there was a Sasquatch community which coexisted with the Vikings (an idea I find VERY appealing), then the Sasquatch might also use the mammoths in various ways, and Ray would have a ball showing a group of wholly mammoths with hairy riders!

Of course, they'd have to domesticate the mammoths to prevent things like this from happening during the mating season! Shocked






Whenever a sabre toothed tiger attacked the domesticated herds of wildebeest, the Vikings repel the predator, both on foot and with mounted mammoth riders armed with incredibly long spears.





Good God, what a Harryhausen treat that scene would be Very Happy

Pow, according to a 2019 article at a website called Business Insider, archeologists have found clear evidence that 12,000 years ago early humans hunted giant sloths and butchered them for food!






So, throw a sloth hunt into this imaginary version of Island at the Top of Word and we've got ourselves one helluva Harryhausen movie! Cool
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Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm envisioning some possible stop~motion animation scenes for Island.

Giant condors attacking the Hyperion on its journey.

After the crash of the airship we see our intrepid adventurers on foot in a barren area enveloped in fog. This would be perfect for a sequence involving a sabre tooth tiger hunting the group of men. At times they could see him clearly but then the fog would hide the stalking creature. This could result in a suspenseful scene. Now you see him, now you don't.

After the beautiful Norse woman helps the men escape from the burning boat they swim to shore and begin a long climb up a mountain. Along the way they could meet up with the carnivorous plant Ray Harryhausen designed for, but never was able to use, in his Mysterious Island film.

When the group descends into the ice cavern, that would be the excellent spot to meet up with the giant Yeti.

Finally, instead of those killer whales the group battles while on a chunk of ice, we could have them face off with an aquatic dinosaur of some kind.

One scene that would not have to involve any battle could have the group simply spying a herd of wooly mammoths wandering by them.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Those are some very fine ideas, Mike! Good work.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google Images has some very nice concept art for Island At the Top of the World.

One particular one I was impressed with was the different design they had for the Hyperion airship.

It had 2 separate balloons joined together to a center gondola. I liked it better than the Hyperion version we saw in the film because this concept iteration was unique.

It also appeared to me that the gondola was longer in length. That would have meant more room for the intrepid adventures as well as the airship being able to carry more valuable cargo.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Wow, you're right about that "catamaran airship", Mike! I like it. Very Happy



__________


But the proportions bothered a little because the hydrogen bags seemed too small to support such a large gondola. So I "Brewsteried" it by lengthening the hydrogen bags, which also gave it a more streamlined look. Very Happy





What do you think? Do the proportions seem more appropriate now?

The concept art of the interior is nice, too. I noticed that the three people are looking down toward the large bridge of the ship, which seems to have a crew of six or more people!

The distance from the deck of the bridge to the ceiling above must be about 40 feet!

Sweet! Cool




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent modifications to the Hyperion, Bruce.

The airship looks so much more awesome than the one they ended up using in the movie. It was certainly decent for the film, but it also was a more typical looking kinda airship. The kind we see in real life and films.

The Nautilus was a submarine, yet it looked like no submarine we've ever had before.

The producers needed to apply that same thinking to the Hyperion. Make it an airship that is like no other.

In fact, it's such a wonderful (concept) design that I would have rewritten the screenplay so that the Hyperion did not get dashed into the mountain once they reached their destination as was done in the movie.

And don't get me started about setting the entire thing aflame in the finale....although that was a darned exciting scene I must confess.
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scotpens
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:


What do you think? Do the proportions seem more appropriate now?


I think the gas envelopes need to be even bigger. Here's a diagram of the LZ-129, better known as the Hindenburg:



Notice the volume of the passenger and crew accommodations compared to the size of the airship!
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I think you probably right, Scott. Very Happy

I was reluctant to make the gas bags so large that they dwarfed that marvelous gondola. But I thought perhaps the fact that there were TWO gas bags would mean that their combined lifting ability might be enough to make this amazing "catamaran zeppelin" actually work.

In Tarzen at the Earth's Core Edgar Rice Burroughs described a zeppelin which was made of an amazing new metal which was stronger than steel but lighter than aluminum.

Perhaps that fictional concept could be incorporated for this airship to make it work, without enlarging the envelopes as much necessary to match the ratio of gas-bag-to-gondola size of conventional airships.

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