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The Spock Scene Nicholas Meyer Regrets

 
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:21 pm    Post subject: The Spock Scene Nicholas Meyer Regrets Reply with quote

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/the-spock-scene-that-star-trek-the-undiscovered-country-director-nicholas-meyer-regrets-shooting/ar-AAZSihd?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=975a2b30547b4deb96cdfad6f363b629

The Spock Scene That Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country Director Nicholas Meyer Regrets Shooting

Jeff Schectman - Yesterday 10:01 PM

Yes, director Nicholas Meyer saved "Star Trek" back in 1982 with "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan." While 1979's "The Motion Picture" still feels like a weird Trek fever dream (just look at the uniforms), with a pace that makes you wonder if everyone alive in the '70s was on drugs -- "Khan" was more than worth the wait. Picking up the threads of the "Space Seed" episode from Season 1 of "The Original Series," it was a rip-roaring space adventure with compelling themes of revenge, an aging Capt. James Kirk (William Shatner), and the gut-wrenching death of Spock (Leonard Nimoy). The film's success paved the way for every incarnation of "Star Trek" that followed.

So when it came time for a proper cinematic send-off of the original crew, Meyer once again took the helm for 1991's "Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country," the sixth (and final) installment to feature the entire OG cast. While it's missing a villain as compelling as Khan (Ricardo Montalban), the Cold War allegory pits Kirk and company against long-time adversaries in the Klingons. Spock, who bounced back to life (it was a whole thing) in 1984's "The Search for Spock," even gets a Vulcan disciple here in Valeris -- played by Kim Cattrall ("Sex and the City"). The well-received movie (82% on Rotten Tomatoes) ended the series on a high note.

There are many highlights in "Undiscovered Country," including Sulu (George Takei) finally getting his own command, Kirk kissing a green-skinned shapeshifting alien beauty before realizing "she" is probably a "he," and even cameos from Michael Dorn ("Star Trek: The Next Generation") and Christian Slater, because why not? But there is also one disturbing scene that didn't bother Meyer until years later.

Near the climax of "The Undiscovered Country," Spock is desperate to get crucial information out of a tight-lipped Valeris, so he performs an invasive Vulcan mind-meld on her (most certainly without consent) — and he goes deep. She even screams in agony, which Vulcans rarely do since they are generally able to control themselves (that's kind of their thing). This scene is definitely unsettling to watch through a modern lens. In a more recent interview with IGN, director Nicholas Meyer expressed his disappointment with the scene in question. "I also think that the scene where Spock is doing the Vulcan mind meld on Valeris to get information sort of looks like waterboarding to me, and doesn't make me very happy to see it," he said.

Was it out of character for someone as enlightened as Spock in hindsight? It didn't ruffle many feathers at the time. Here's the thing: context matters. Without that key information, Kirk and Spock will fail to prevent a catastrophic occurrence that could ultimately affect millions of lives. That's a bad look for heroes, especially ones known for routinely saving the galaxy. And wasn't it Spock himself who once said in the Meyer-helmed "Wrath of Khan" no less, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few — or the one"? Those were literally his dying words. You know, when we thought he was really dying. At least he doesn't put a hideous creature in her ear like Khan does to poor Chekov (Walter Koenig). Degrees, people.

Regardless, Meyer should sleep well knowing that Spock remains one of the most beloved characters in all of science fiction, despite his heroic/evil actions that fateful day. But before anyone condemns this Vulcan in the Court of 30 Years Later, keep one thing in mind — he's half-human.

MY COMMENT:

What do you think? Was Spocks' forcing of a mind meld akin to "waterboarding" ?

Or perhaps psychic rape?

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: The Spock Scene Nicholas Meyer Regrets Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
MY COMMENT:

What do you think? Was Spocks' forcing of a mind meld akin to "waterboarding"?

Hot damn, what a great post, Ambassador Gork! Very Happy

I'm sure the question can be hotly debated, with no "one right answer". Here's "My Comment on Your Comment".

I don't want to sound like I'm condoning torture in any form, but the article correctly points out that Valeris was not just suspected of having information that could prevent a great tragedy, she definitely did have it. But she refused to reveal it.

So, let's consider the question this way.

Suppose Valeris placed her hand on a button that would blow up the ship. In a situation like that, gunning her down would be perfectly understandable.

The situation in the movie is somewhat akin to the one described above. By refusing to reveal the information, Valeris was preventing our Trek heroes from stopping a catastrophe in which she we was directly involved.

For that reason, forcing her to reveal the vital information was — in effect — like shooting someone in self defense. And in this case, Valeris was only "wounded" rather than killed.

The act of invading her mind was undoubtedly repugnant to the highly moral Spock, but because he was moral, he had an obligation to save the life of the Federation President from the assassin who would have killed him and sabotaged the peace talks.

We should also remember that the pain which Valeris suffered was caused by her own determined resistance to the mind melt, not by a deliberate effort by Spock to inflict pain on her.

Also note that Valeris only resisted mentally, not physically. If she had been physically restrained while Spock initiated the meld, the scene would have been much more disturbing.

Instead, it was a 'battle wills" which Valeris chose to allow — and which she mistakenly thought she could win.






With that in mind, consider the fact that torture, such as waterboarding, intentionally inflicts pain on a victim who is physically restrained. The intention is to convince the victim to cooperate with interrogators so that the pain will cease.

But Valeris' determination to prevent the mind meld was the cause of the pain she experienced. She chose to resist, and this required Spock to extract the names of the conspirators in a forceful manner.

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