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TOS episode #38 - The Apple
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Pow
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitpicker's Guide.

At one point Mr. Spock discovers a lightweight rock. When kicked or even gently nudged, it explodes with great force. For some reason, Spock snaps it in half with his hands, and the rock stays perfectly calm. Shouldn't it detonate because of this disturbance as well?

When first approaching Vaal, Spock uses his tricorder to analyze the structure. Then he mentions something about a force field before it knocks him backward onto his posterior. Finally he announces that the force field extends thirty feet in all directions. If Spock's tricorder could tell him that the force field extended a specific number of feet in every direction, why did he run into it?

While wandering in the moonlight with Chekov, Landon comments that if it weren't for Vaal, the planet really would be paradise.

Even without Vaal, the place has exploding rocks and plants that shoot poison darts.
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Sidebar: I always wondered if those deadly rocks and plants were a natural part of the planet, or did Vaal create them as defenses against intruders? Not to mention the lightning strikes.

An underwhelming episode.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
Sidebar: I always wondered if those deadly rocks and plants were a natural part of the planet, or did Vaal create them as defenses against intruders? Not to mention the lightning strikes.

That seems like a reasonable assumption, Pow. Very Happy
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scotpens
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
. . . The script called for the Enterprise to employ the emergency saucer separation from the Enterprise but it was deemed too costly to do so.

~ So, was the Enterprise model for the 1966 TV show designed to allow the saucer section to be able to separate from rest of the model, and they simply could not shoot it due to budget limitations?

AFAIK, the 11-foot filming model could be disassembled for storage, but it was never built to show the saucer separating from the rest of the ship.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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The saucer separation in Encounter at Farpoint was given a reasonable justification: the Enterprise had families mixed in with the actual Starfleet crew, so they sort of "abandoned ship" before the rest of the Enterprise when into battle.

But I've never quite bought the idea that the TOS Enterprise would have or need a "saucer separation" function. The crew were all Starfleet personnel . . . and the saucer section had all the weapons!

So . . . why would the crew ever need or want to separate the two sections? Shocked

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Pow
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some scenarios where a saucer separation on ST:TOS would be useful.

Any severe damage to the engines that would result in a warp core breach that would annihilate the starship would necessitate the crew to evacuate to the saucer section in order to disconnect from the ticking timebomb.

This is what Commodore Decker should have done with his starship the Constellation on The Doomsday Machine episode.

Once the alien superweapon's attack rendered the warp drive inoperative, Decker could have ordered his crew to the saucer and then separate from the useless engines. They could have then fled from that sector of space and warned Starfleet Command about this planet-killer. Decker and his surviving crew would all be alive to make a report and participate in the machine's destruction.

Unstoppable aliens that were taking over a starship, or even possessing the crew members, could result in a captain giving the order to have what crew he could save retreat to the saucer for a separation maneuver. Once they were safely away from the primary hull the captain could order a self-destruct of the hull to eliminate the hostile aliens.

If a deadly unknown and incurable plague infected some of the crew and was quickly spreading throughout the ship, a saucer separation might be the only radical measure to save uninfected crew members.

There could also be battle situations where a saucer separation maneuver could be a distraction to an opposing enemy and used to advantage for an attack.

There could be emergency situations where one starship would be required to do the work of two. The saucer section might be used to deliver critical supplies of some kind, while the primary hull would be engaged in a rescue operation and another locale?

Granted, it isn't always going to be the perfect solution since the saucer has the weaponry but can only travel at sub-light speed, and the primary hull has warp drive, but no
defensive or offensive capabilities.

That could result in dangerous situations for both sections of a starship. It could also challenge the crews in both sections to become very creative. And it could give us an exciting episode.

The Galileo Seven episode had Captain Kirk forced to abandoned Mr. Spock and his Galileo crew on a hostile planet in order that the Enterprise deliver medical supplies to the planet Makus III.

What if Kirk had ordered a saucer separation that allowed the primary hull at warp speeds to deliver the precious cargo, and the saucer section continue the desperate search for Spock and his people?

Perhaps saucer separation would be a rare event during the duties of starship, but then rare events are a part of exploration.
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mach7
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While "The Apple" is not the best TOS episode it is far from the worst, and really in the upper/mid pack.

It's entertaining, well directed, and different enough from "Archon's" to be workable.

Many questions are left unanswered, and the script could probably have used another polish.

As for the natives feeding VAL. They are not feeding it food, they are feeding it the explosive rocks. Spock mentions that in quantity they could be an excellent power source.
This leads to an interesting link between VAL and the natives.
One which works for a few backstories on the planet.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mach7 wrote:
As for the natives feeding VAL. They are not feeding it food, they are feeding it the explosive rocks. Spock mentions that in quantity they could be an excellent power source.

Mach, that's terrific! That never occurred to me.

I couldn't find a YouTube video which showed the scene of Vaal being fed, but I seem to remember that the natives were presenting large bowls or platters of fruit and/or flowers to Vaal. So, that's where I got the notion that Vaal was a "vegan" (so to speak). Very Happy

However, even if that is what the scene showed, I can easily accept your statement that what the natives were actually "feeding' it were the explosive rocks, which it used as a power source.

The vegetation they also presented would just be "gifts" to honor their deity, so to speak — something we've seen in movies and shows about south sea islanders attempting to appease a pissed off volcano. (Hey . . . Vaal . . . volcano. Hummm. Confused)

The actual "feeding" of Vaal might take place at another time, when the natives would carefully drop the exploding rocks down into Vaal,

With that in mind, your suggestion concerning the backstory of Vaal and the natives is very interesting, along with a sequel in which Vaal could be reactivated and reprogrammed to resume it's beneficial care of the natives and planet's artificial environment. Cool

The video below points out that Vaal was not actually destroyed in the climax, it was just drained of power so the Enterprise could escape the planet.


______ VAAL The Machine God: Star Trek Bestiary


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These Are The Voyages: TOS, Season Two by Marc Cushman.

"The Apple" has many clever ideas. Comparing Kirk to Satan is certainly one. And, for 1967, those optical effects -- the lightning storm lashing out at red-shirted crew members, and the phaser-driven firefight against a godhead Vaal -- were impressive works.

There was also a sly message targeting a new type of workplace in America where every day more and more people were being hired as data keypunch operators, feeding information into the computers and machines that we were becoming dependent upon. Disturbed, McCoy comments, "It's obscene! Humanoids living only so they can service a hunk of tin!"

These attributes aside, "The Apple" barely succeeds in doing more than providing escapism. With all its grand intent, thundering effects, and high body count, the episode stumbles over a flawed premise and a theme which feels redundant within the greater scheme of the series.

At the core of this apple is a retelling of "The Return of the Archons." Even the script structure contains recognizable plot points: ship under attack while orbiting planet and unable to rescue landing party; Kirk and party treated as infection; computer in control of human-like population; Kirk must save himself in order to save his ship. We saw this formula to some degree in "A Taste of Armageddon," "Catspaw," and "Who Mourns for Adonais?"
Dorothy Fontana wrote to Gene Coon: We have in this piece the exact, but totally unexciting duplicate, of "Return of the Archons" .... Nowhere in this piece is there an indication of how Vaal was built, how "he" took over the minds of these people, etc. At least on "Archons," a creation and purpose was given to the computer.

Robert Justman's memo to Coon was less critical. He wrote" There is a very interesting premise contained within this outline .... If we can sufficiently disguise the resemblances [to "Return of the Archons"] and get some other kinds of shtick to occur.

Coon was well-known for sticking with a script because he fell in love with a single story element or some intellectual or literary concept within.

After a three-episode layoff, Chekov is back, sans the Beatles wig. His own hair was now long enough, allowing him to pass for a Davy Jones wannabe.

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mach7
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good points!

I envision a backstory of a society that developed an Artificial intelligence to control their weather, organize their society, and eliminate all harmful substances from the atmosphere.
VAAL is powered by natural minerals in the planets crust converted by matter transference to a highly volatile/unstable solid that is very energy dense.

This AI, VAAL (Variable Associated Artificial Logic) Starts to run things and and all is good for a while.

After a while VAAL realizes that the carbon based life forms that built it are silly, wasteful, and illogical. More importantly It finds out that the CBLF's are starting to work on the follow on system.

VAAL selects a small group of humanoids to service him and kills all the rest. Through the process of matter transference VAAL converts all the billions of dead CBLF's to the power rocks to supply VAAL with power for thousands of years to come. The Villagers, seeing what VAAL did to everyone else, decide to go along with VAAL's plan.

Over the next 1000 years the small village leads a simple life supplying VAAL with power rocks and gathering food.
After time the villagers forget everything except servicing VAAL.
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Pow
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intriguing backstory. VAAL is a Bad Ass!!!
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Mach7, I am VERY impressed! That's just the kind of original creative thinking we love to see here on All Sci-Fi.

Your ideas work so well with the episode that I can't imagine a more interesting and plausible backstory. And it entirely vindicates Kirk's decision to "help" the native people break free of VAAL's control.

Keep up the good work, sir! Members like you are the "life blood" of All Sci-Fi. Cool

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mach7
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you sir!

The back story makes it a very different story from "Archons"

Landru had good intentions, VAAL is evil. Very evil indeed.

"Return of the Archons" is by far a better episode. Much more refined and polished. If only computer Landru could think a little outside of the box....
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay Jones who played crewman Mallory, "There was a 'jumper trampoline' buried in the ground. When I hit the trampoline, the explosion was supposed to go off. Well, the timing had to be perfect, and it wasn't. The special effects guy was a hundredth of a second too late.

I was directly over it when the blast hit. In the episode, you can see me literally blown toward the camera. The force hit me in the stomach, burned my side, blew the skin off my rib cage and impacted all of this dirt into my sinuses. I couldn't open my eyes or breath. They rushed me to the hospital emergency room.

They had filmed the explosion from another angle as well, and it was incredible. I looked like a human fireball. It wasn't used because NBC felt it was too violent."

Sidebar: Thank goodness Jay came out of all this in one piece! I wonder what that footage looked like that NBC did not use? Was it too violent looking at that time, but it wouldn't be nowadays?

I think that stuntmen & stuntwomen are not always as appreciated by film studios & television networks as they properly should be. They are awesome athletes who dare to take on scary challenges. The fact that the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts & Sciences STILL hasn't a Best Stunt Category is appalling to me. TV should also have such a category for their Emmys.
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mach7
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Star Trek was a perilous TV show!

I'm glad Mr. Jones made a recovery.
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