ALL SCI-FI Forum Index ALL SCI-FI
The place to “find your people”.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Wardrobes.
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Star Trek on Television
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3401
Location: New York

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:14 pm    Post subject: Wardrobes. Reply with quote

Wardrobes.

Star Trek: The Next Generation. Spandex was used for the one-piece Starfleet uniforms for the first two seasons of the series and they were a nightmare for the cast to wear.

They were made two sizes too small on purpose and the actors hated how unforgiving they were.

Spandex retains human body odors; at some point they are unable to clean all of the smell out after a period of time. Also, it retains the odor from the dry cleaning fluid which is unpleasant.

The spandex costumes dug into the actors shoulders over the course of the 12 to 15 hour shooting days. The pressure on their bodies led to back problems for the cast. Patrick Stewart's chiropractor told him that he should sue Paramount Pictures for lasting damage done to his spine.

Wool was used for the uniforms starting in the third season. Wool can be stubbornly inflexible and made it difficult for the cast to move. The uniforms were redesigned to be a two-piece outfit that allowed flexibility.

The cast for Star Trek: The Motion Picture loathed their uniforms on that production. The costume trousers were attached to the shoes which made them ludicrously impractical. The cast said that they would refuse to wear them in anymore Trek feature films.

Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan's new costumes were actually the old beige ones from ST: TMP that had been dyed red.

Star Trek: Voyager. Jerri Ryan's full Borg outfit when we are first introduced to her character made her pass out. The collar pressed into her carotid artery and reduced blood flow.

Later on when Seven-of-Nine is given an outfit, Ryan could not bend over or even sit down in it. She required assistance to remove it for bathroom breaks. The production would have to shut down for 20 minutes during such breaks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Wardrobes. Reply with quote

__________________________________________________

Wonderful post, Pow! Very Happy

I never knew that the costumes that looked so good on screen were so uncomfortable and impractical. And the last item on your list is very troubling!


Pow wrote:
Later on when Seven-of-Nine is given an outfit, Ryan could not bend over or even sit down in it. She required assistance to remove it for bathroom breaks. The production would have to shut down for 20 minutes during such breaks.

It amazes me that a franchise that allegedly depicts the future was plagued with such poor decisions concerning something as basic as clothing! Shocked
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tmlindsey
Mission Specialist


Joined: 18 Jul 2022
Posts: 409
Location: NW Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Women's costumes on Star Trek were always designed for male eye-appeal before any other considerations, Next Gen was known for having the "Star Trek Bra" to pad the women up to make them "more appealing".

The cat-suits on Voyager and Enterprise were ridiculous and only for one thing; drooling fanboys.

I never understood why costume designers didn't factor in the comfort for the actors or the practicality for production. Any producer that would allow a production to be regularly held up for someone's complicated "pee break" needs to be fired.

_________________
"Have you never wondered what it would be like to walk between the ticks and tocks of Time?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tmlindsey wrote:
Any producer that would allow a production to be regularly held up for someone's complicated "pee break" needs to be fired.

I agree! Rolling Eyes

Besides, I'm a "leg man". That's part of the reason I like TOS so much.

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Krel
Space Ranger


Joined: 19 Feb 2023
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Wardrobes. Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan's new costumes were actually the old beige ones from ST: TMP that had been dyed red.

The only costumes that reused from ST: TMP were the engineering costumes. Nobody liked the footie pajamas costumes. Nicholas Meyer wanted new uniforms that were closer to the original series, and with the movie's small budget they gave that concession to him.

The first Next Gen uniforms had to be changed because they gave Patrick Stewart a pinched nerve in his neck, reported to have caused permanent damage.

The actors were sewn into the paints in "Star Trek" because Roddenberry didn't want to see buttons or zippers on costumes. So restroom breaks involved a seamstress. The velour shirts in the first pilots were changed because they shrunk on the actors under the hot lights and could only be used once.

Kirk's shirt was a olive like green color that would turn gold when they color corrected some scenes. William Ware Theiss kept trying to find a way so Kirk's shirts would stay green, which led to the wraparound shirt. Why he didn't use the same fabric as the wraparound shirts, I've never read.

William Ware Theiss was asked where he found all the alien looking fabrics. His advice was to look at the inside (back) of the fabrics.

David.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3401
Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen you are so right. How could Hollywood with years and years of both film and television production end up creating such impractical wardrobes for their projects?

"Time is money" is no more crucial than in Hollywood, especially in television. The creator of these science fiction series realize that they do not have a second to waste when shooting their shows. They also are well aware of the fact that the cast is going to be in front of the camera and putting in 12, 13, 14, hour days. It only makes sense to have them be as comfortable as possible and create costumes that are rarely time consuming when filming.

I am not sure if the wardrobe designers are at fault, or if they do indeed point out the flaws of the types of wardrobes that the producers demand and are simply overruled by the producers. Either way you'd think the powers that be would have long learned this lesson by the 21st century.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mach7
Quantum Engineer


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 333

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Wardrobes. Reply with quote

Krel wrote:
The actors were sewn into the paints in "Star Trek" because Roddenberry didn't want to see buttons or zippers on costumes. So restroom breaks involved a seamstress. The velour shirts in the first pilots were changed because they shrunk on the actors under the hot lights and could only be used once.

Kirk's shirt was a olive like green color that would turn gold when they color corrected some scenes. William Ware Theiss kept trying to find a way so Kirk's shirts would stay green, which led to the wraparound shirt. Why he didn't use the same fabric as the wraparound shirts, I've never read.

William Ware Theiss was asked where he found all the alien looking fabrics. His advice was to look at the inside (back) of the fabrics.
David.

Roddenberry costume decree from TOS:

No pockets, no buttons, no visible zippers.

In the Trouble with Tribbles Cyrano Jones got pockets for his tribbles/drinks. I think this is the only time this happens.

I've always read/heard about the color changing command shirt, but I think its not true.

Here are some of the original uniforms from the show, they were on display at the Science Fiction Museum in Seattle years ago.



They were yellow/gold as you can see.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mach7
Quantum Engineer


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 333

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Trek costumes, I was watching "I Mudd" not to long ago and something caught my eye.

It looks like Alice 5's has a wardrobe malfunction, she is showing a bit more leg than she should be. Obviously she is not wearing any underwear under the stockings.

I hope the large format photo is ok, it is needed to see the
"mistake".


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

______________________________________________

Is the wardrobe malfunction the fact that her crotch is visible? I suspect she's wearing panties under the pantyhose, rather than on top. That would cause the vertical seam in the pantyhose to be visible.

Yes, it probably wasn't meant to show. Embarassed

And yet she seems modestly dressed compared some of the other ladies in the series, such as this gal from "Wink of an Eye". Nice outfit, eh? Very Happy




_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mach7
Quantum Engineer


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 333

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you can see her....
hmmmm....

Her pubic area.
Basically her whole crotch under her shear stockings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

______________________________________________

Hmmm. I think it's debatable, but perhaps you're right. She's certainly walking around on the set showing something. Shocked

Here's a closer look.
Cool


_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Krel
Space Ranger


Joined: 19 Feb 2023
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Wardrobes. Reply with quote

mach7 wrote:


I've always read/heard about the color changing command shirt, but I think its not true.


The Command shirt.

Then there is the "Mirror, Mirror" Command vest.

The wraparound shirt, used while WWT was trying to figure out how to make the standard Command shirt look green after color correcting for some scenes.

Kirk's Command Officer's dress shirt.

I could post a lot more, but I think I've taken up enough space. Laughing

I don't know why the shirts look gold now. Maybe the color changed over the decades, I've read that in the past, but I don't know enough about fabric dyes to say. Maybe they just got tired of the color differences and made a gold shirt. I just don't know.

I do know that William Ware Theiss has said in the past that the shirts were green.

David.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mach7
Quantum Engineer


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 333

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes,

Kirk's wrap tunic was green. It was done for 2 reasons.

First to give the Kirk a uniform that was different from the
other crew, to identify him as the Captain.

Second was to give Shatner a little girdle action as he tended to put on a bit of weight as the season went on.

Star Treks Cinematographer, Jerry Finnerman liked to "paint with light" He would use blue, green, yellow, purple gels over some of the lights. I think this adds to the different colors seen of the TV.

The original costumes have faded a bit over the years, but there has not been much actual color change.
Here are some others from that same exhibit.






Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Krel
Space Ranger


Joined: 19 Feb 2023
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mach7 wrote:
Kirk's wrap tunic was green. It was done for 2 reasons.

First to give the Kirk a uniform that was different from the
other crew, to identify him as the Captain.

Second was to give Shatner a little girdle action as he tended to put on a bit of weight as the season went on.



William Ware Theiss said that they wrap tunic was only intended to be used until he could figure out how to make the regular tunic stay green. He didn't say why they couldn't use the wrap fabric for the standard tunic. I guess he gave up, as the wrap tunic went away.

mach7 wrote:
Star Treks Cinematographer, Jerry Finnerman liked to "paint with light" He would use blue, green, yellow, purple gels over some of the lights. I think this adds to the different colors seen of the TV.


That was an NBC thing that was used on all their TV shows. NBC was pushing the sales of color TV sets, so they had the color amped up. "The Man From U.N.C.L.E." was known for the use of color lighting on the walls, even "Dragnet" used color lighting on the walls.

David.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mach7
Quantum Engineer


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 333

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats a good point about the color.

If I remember correctly, and I might not, NBC was owned by
RCA at the time and NBC was going all color in 1966.
This was to help sell RCA color TV's.
I think this is the reason the uniforms were switched from blue and yellow in "The Cage" to the 3 primary colors in the 2nd pilot and production run. I also think that that is the reason the bridge got it's red highlights.

I always thought that Finnerman's "Paint with light" was his artistic choice, but it makes sense that it was part of the whole RCA/NBC order for more color. I'll check my season 1 "These are the voyages" book.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Star Trek on Television All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group