![ALL SCI-FI Forum Index](templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif) |
ALL SCI-FI The place to “find your people”.
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
![](images/avatars/3.jpg)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
Mike, you could not be more correct about the dynamic and emotionally moving orphanage scene!
In the entire history of stop-motion, no scene is more dramatic and heroic than Joe's rescue of the little girl on the top floor of the burning orphanage!
And I feel that the 1998 Disney remake of Mighty Joe Young made a valiant effort to recreate that golden moment and give it as much emotional impact as they possibly could.
To their credit, they were largely successful.
But the fact that they were humbly recreating the basic elements of the awesome original — and yet did NOT doing it with stop motion animation — meant that they really didn't consider their remade scene as being equal to the original.
For that reason, I have tremendous respect for the remake because the entire film demonstrates a deep respect for the original — right down to the brief scene in which Ray Harryhausen and Terry Moore make a wonderful cameo at a fancy fund raising event, both dressed in elegant evening clothes.
Terry Moore gazes at Charlize Theron who stood a few yards away, and says to Ray Harryhausen standing next to her, "She reminds me of someone . . . but I can't think of who it is."
Ray replies in a soft and tender voice. "She's you . . . when we first met."
That scene proves to me that the makers of this remake were completely devoted to the original, and they wanted young audience to experience this amazing story in a modern version. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Pow Galactic Ambassador
![](images/avatars/39.png)
Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3443 Location: New York
|
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I loved the 1998 remake of MJY too, Bruce.
As you well know, remakes and sequels rarely are as good as the original iteration of a film.
The remakes or sequels may be able to take advantage of enormous leaps in special/visual effects; make-up; stunts; set designs. Perhaps even a more lavish budget than the original movie.
That does not automatically translate into success on the later film. It just makes it eye-candy.
Whatever the power of the original script was or the charm of the era a movie was produced in can be lost by a remake or sequel.
The rule usually is that remakes and sequels won't live up to the original.
But Disney's MJY most certainly does just that with their movie.
The visuals are terrific (even though it's not stop~motion animation as in the classic version) and the cast quite good.
Disney really shines with their MJY. which has a beauty all its own, as well as scenic location shooting for the Africa segments.
The "Wind Song" musical score remains memorable to this very day.
The cameo by Ray & Terry is wonderful. I believe it shows the producers' respect for the first MJY film and the people that made it so outstanding.
Some of the folks behind remakes and sequels of classic films have an arrogant attitude of they can do it better.
They don't need to respect the original source material because its now corny and dated.
Such films that are produced by people with those toxic views usually crash & burn. Deservedly so.
I also have to salute Obie's gorgeous glass matte paintings used on MJY. They truly are breathtaking.
I read an article once where Ray resorted to rear screen projection instead of utilizing the glass matte paintings because the cost factor was so much more to create those type of paintings.
Ray would have preferred matte paintings but that just wasn't feasible on his film's FX budgets.
Obie hated using rear screen and could price himself out of doing a film because he resisted using rear screen.
I wished that Obie or Ray would have collaborated with Walt Disney on a feature film. Seems like such a match would have been a natural. |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
![](images/avatars/3.jpg)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
Mike, to be absolutely honest, I was not as impressed by your post above as I have been by some of your previous ones.
I was MORE impressed! While reading it I kept thinking, "Yes, he's exactly right!"
I agree with your analysis of the sad psychology which drives those egotistical sequel/remake filmmakers who think they can out-do a classic by replacing the quality elements of the original with a "new" approach which has no real merit.
The Disney remake of Mighty Joe Young is obviously the product of talented filmmakers who knew exactly what to keep and what to jazz up with modern film techniques.
They didn't try to "fix a corny old movie" — they simply "translated a great story" for modern audiences!
Mike, on behalf of All Sci-Fi's members, thanks for taking the time to craft such a wonderful analysis of this flawless remake. ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Pow Galactic Ambassador
![](images/avatars/39.png)
Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3443 Location: New York
|
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You're welcome, Bruce.
Thank you again for providing this terrific site that allows me to read your posts, as well as others.
And it allows me to post items I hope will be of some interest to members. |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
![](images/avatars/3.jpg)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
IMDB has several interesting trivia items for this production.
________________________________
~ This was the first feature film to which Ray Harryhausen contributed stop-motion animation effects.
Note from me: When you consider that Ray was 29 years old and entirely self-taught in this demanding and unique field, it's incredible that his skills were every bit as good as the veteran animator, Willis O'Brian!
~ Though Willis H. O'Brien gets top special-effects billing, Ray Harryhausen actually did 85%-90% of the stop-motion animation for this film, although the animation is based on O'Brien's designs and storyboards
Note from me: I know we all wish there was a way to watch the two men work together during the stop-motion scenes. Just because Ray's hands were on the model most of the time doesn't mean he didn't get constant advice and guidance from O'Brien every step of the way!
~ When Joe smashes through the facade during the nightclub riot, the first scream you hear is that of Fay Wray, stock audio from the original King Kong (1933), which was also produced by RKO.
Note from me: And if you listen real carefully, you'll hear Fay wail, "Oh no . . . not again!"
~ Second-unit director David Sharpe recalled an incident that happened on the nightclub set: "We were shooting some action stuff . . . which featured lions, tigers, elephants, and apes in cages around the table area. We had trained lions to run from one side of the set to the other.
One of them broke loose, jumped onto the top of his cage and grabbed the trainer by the throat. I was in the camera cage. I pushed the iron door open, raced across the set and punched the lion in the face. I guess I shocked him so badly he let go, turned tail and ran into his cage."
Note from me: What a wonderful safety tip to add to our strategies for dealing with wild animals.
Attacked by a shark? Punch 'em on the nose! Attacked by an elephant! Show him a mouse, 'cause they're always afraid of those in cartoons. And if a lion grabs a friend by the throat, just give him the Vulcan face pinch and he'll flee back into his cage!
~ The "cowboys in Africa" sequence in this film used footage originally shot to be used in a planned but not completed follow-up to King Kong (1933), "The Valley of Gwangi". That film (as The Valley of Gwangi (1969)) was eventually made by Ray Harryhausen.
Note from me: The only way this could be true (and I seriously doubt that it is) would be if footage in question didn't involve any stop motion. So, what does that leave?
~ The version of this shown on TCM features the "burning orphanage" sequence overlaid with an orange filter for dramatic effect, just as it had been in its original 1949 release.
Note from me: Right . . . and when I watch that scene I always turn the TV color off to make it black & white, because that orange tint just destroys the picture's contrast and hides details. Besides, being near a building that's on fire does NOT turn the whole area orange, for God's sake!
~ This film was stop-motion animator Pete Peterson's first animating job. He was hired as a grip but became so enamored with stop-motion while watching Ray Harryhausen work that Willis H. O'Brien allowed him to try his hand at animating some scenes.
Note from me: Examples of Peterson's work can be seen in two test reels he created, shown below. Note the incredible smoothness of Peterson's animation!
Beetlemen - Pete Peterson stop-motion test reel
__________
The Las Vegas Monster - Pete Peterson stop-motion test reel
__________ ![](https://i3.ytimg.com/vi/nkEwKcSLlz8/hqdefault.jpg) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Krel Guest
|
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
According to Wikipedia, after Pete Peterson's death, the models and films were found in his house. Jim Danforth used one of the Beetlemen, and the Las Vegas Monster in "Flesh Gordon", where the LVM became the Great God porno. I'm not sure I believe the second one, although he might have used the armature.
David. |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
![](images/avatars/42.jpg)
Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2948 Location: Buffalo, NY
|
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There is a resembalance, but not a real identical identification. Still, Jim Danforth may have been influenced by Petersons' work. _________________ There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
![](images/avatars/3.jpg)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Krel wrote: | Jim Danforth used one of the Beetlemen, and the Las Vegas Monster in "Flesh Gordon", where the LVM became the Great God porno. I'm not sure I believe the second one, although he might have used the armature. |
I don't think the Las Vegas Monster armature was used in the Flesh Gordon monster.
Note the striking differences between the size of the heads, the length of the limbs (compared to the torso), and the number of joints (three) in the Flesh Gordon Monster's legs.
As Gord stated so succinctly, there is "not a real identical identification".
![](https://i.imgur.com/vF7yohL.png) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Captain Starlight Solar Explorer
![](images/avatars/847868826265d6a149242.png)
Joined: 22 Apr 2022 Posts: 51 Location: Area 51
|
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Even though I'm a big stop motion fan, I loved the Disney remake of this movie. The man-in-a-gorilla-suit is totally convincing. And the friendship between Jill and Joe is heart warming. The music is terrific as well. |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Krel Space Ranger
![](images/avatars/106337904163f2672c5e61d.jpg)
Joined: 19 Feb 2023 Posts: 190
|
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Animators have always reused armatures. They're expensive structures, and are frequently altered to save costs and labor. The body can have a different shape, as long as it fits the armature.
What makes me doubt that TLV Monster was reused as the Great God Porno, is that TGGP is dog-legged, and TLVM monster isn't. I admit I don't know much about armature construction, but I would think that the legs would need to be completely rebuilt.
David. |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
![](images/avatars/3.jpg)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
Yep, I thought of that, too — but I didn't want cover the subject so well I didn't give anyone else a chance have fun pondering it!
We've all seen pictures of armatures which are composed of steel rods (the "bones", so to speak), and the ball-and-socket joints that make the sections movable.
You could start with an armature like the one above and completely disassemble it until you had a pile of rods, a pile of joints, and a pile of nuts and screws.
Then you could reassemble the parts into sometime totally different — like a two-legged creature with four arms!
That might be what Danforth did with Peterson's armature — and that's exactly what Harryhausen did with the ymir from 20 Million Miles to Earth when he turned into the Cyclops from The 7th Voyage Sinbad!
Ymir, rest in peace . . . Happy Birthday, Cyclops!
Then again, Danforth might have thought that Peterson's model should be preserved as a collectors item, so he just constructed a new armature from scratch. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Pow Galactic Ambassador
![](images/avatars/39.png)
Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3443 Location: New York
|
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Early plans to shoot the movie in color were abandoned when it was decided it would be too expensive. Tests were made but none have survived.
The film was partly based on a true story entitled Toto and I: A Gorilla in the Family (1941) by Augusta Maria Daurer Hoyt. Hoyt adopted a baby gorilla after it was orphaned during a hunt in Equatorial Africa in 1931.
The film's initial budget was $1.5 million, but ended up as $2.28 million. "When it's a studio picture, you never know what they're charging," according to Ray Harryhausen. He added, "A lot of the front office would put charges on." This meant that, for accounting purposes, the film took on the studio's day-to-day running costs, making the budget for the film appear more significant than it was. Mighty Joe Young, with its stop-motion animation photography, was deemed too costly and no longer commercially viable for stop-motion visual effects on screen.
Sidebar: So let me get this straight; a movie studio places financial charges upon a particular film that the film production doesn't actually incur. The studio then drives up the budget this way and then turns around and says to the producers that their film cost too much and we don't want to do these types of films again! The inmates are running the asylum. How crooked, corrupt, and hypocritical of these loathsome studio heads. Then again, haven't we heard how film studios & the networks are well known for cooking the books in order to profit greatly at the expense of the production company staffs. How often have we read where someone has to sue a studio because the studio outright lied regarding the accounting practices and people did not receive their just due regarding money? I know it happened with Alan Alda over M*A*S*H. It happened with David Duchovny over The X-Files.
The tragic reality results in this case that studios could have budgeted properly & honestly so that more films could have utilized stop-motion animation. This would have in turn provided needed work to the armature builders, sculptors, and animators. It would have greatly enhanced feature films and delighted audiences, especially we fans of stop motion. However, due to the rotten chicanery of the motion picture studios we all end up losing out. Hollyweird you never cease to disgust me with your practices and nasty ways.
At least Mighty Joe Young won an Oscar for its visual effects. No thanks to the studio executives.
|
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
tmlindsey Mission Specialist
![](images/avatars/209.png)
Joined: 18 Jul 2022 Posts: 409 Location: NW Florida
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
I prefer the remake to the original MJY as well. Respectful to the original and well done overall.
Pow wrote: | ...The tragic reality results in this case that studios could have budgeted properly & honestly so that more films could have utilized stop-motion animation... |
The stupidity of executives knows no bounds in ANY industry, and cooking the books is a Hollywood tradition that will never, ever go away.
Example: Years ago, my wife won an MTV contest for $10k to make a short film, MTV (and a now-defunct mobile phone company) assigned a "real" Hollywood insider as Executive Producer to oversee production, spending, etc. He sent her the Excel budgeting spreadsheet that MTV (and according to him ALL of Hollywood) used for us to track expenses so we didn't go over budget.
Immediately, we ran WAY over $10k and we couldn't understand why. So since I wrote Excel spreadsheets fairly regularly at my job, I dug into it and lo-and-behold, it was FILLED with hidden formulae to pad the budget by TRIPLING every single entry, and sometimes DOUBLING totals after that! Oy vey.
We pointed this out to the EP, who sighed and said "do what you need to do to make it work, but use every penny of the $10k because they will screw you out of as much as they can".
I corrected the spreadsheet (and locked all of the new formulae with a password) to track what we were actually spending....then padded it out to get as close to $10 as possible.
MTV still stiffed us for $40, but it didn't matter in the end. They also wanted to pay the balance to use at the end of the fiscal year, just like all other production houses, but the EP called them up and screamed at them for immediate payment since, you know, we weren't a freaking production company or rich
We offered my accurate spreadsheet to MTV, for a price, which they declined. Totally fakakta. ![Rolling Eyes](images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif) _________________ "Have you never wondered what it would be like to walk between the ticks and tocks of Time?" |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Krel Space Ranger
![](images/avatars/106337904163f2672c5e61d.jpg)
Joined: 19 Feb 2023 Posts: 190
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pow wrote: | How often have we read where someone has to sue a studio because the studio outright lied regarding the accounting practices and people did not receive their just due regarding money? I know it happened with Alan Alda over M*A*S*H. It happened with David Duchovny over The X-Files. |
There is often a heavy price to be paid. In the early 1970's Cliff Robertson exposed an embezzling scheme at Columbia Pictures. He was warned not to go public, but he did and as a result he was blacklisted for several years. His career never fully recovered.
David. |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
![](images/avatars/3.jpg)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Krel wrote: | There is often a heavy price to be paid. In the early 1970's Cliff Robertson exposed an embezzling scheme at Columbia Pictures. He was warned not to go public, but he did and as a result he was blacklisted for several years. His career never fully recovered |
So, not only are the studio heads crooked, they're vindictive, too. That's sad . . . ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
|
Back to top |
|
![](templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif) |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|