ALL SCI-FI Forum Index ALL SCI-FI
The place to “find your people”.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Forbidden Planet (1956)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 24, 25, 26 ... 141, 142, 143  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Sci-Fi Movies and Serials from 1950 to 1969
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Gord Green
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 2944
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: forbidden planet Reply with quote

This is an article purpotedly written by Warren Stevens ( Doc Ostrow ).

Warren Stevens
on
Forbidden Planet (1956)
(from the Encyclopedia of Science Fiction by John Clute and Peter Nicholls)

Full fathom five thy father lies;
Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.

~ gratuitous Tempest quote - my favourite — Warren Stevens (Lt. Charles Xavier Ostrow, MD)

~ "In the final decade of the 21st century, men and women in rocketships landed on the Moon. By 2200 AD they had reached the other planets of our solar system. Almost at once there followed the discovery of hyperdrive through which the speed of light was first attained and later greatly surpassed. And so at last mankind began the conquest and colonisation of deep space. United Planets Cruiser C-57-D, now more than a year out from Earth base on a special mission to the planetary system of the great main sequence star, Altair." — Forbidden Planet opening narration.

Here are the more pertinent plot elements from The Tempest: the Duke Prospero (who can do magic) and his daughter Miranda were exiled to an island by his devious brother, Antonio, and the king of Naples, Alonso. Also living on the island are Caliban, a savage deformed being enslaved by Prospero, and several spirits, amongst them one called Ariel. Prospero freed the latter from Caliban and is now his master as well. Prospero uses Ariel to create a tempest during which a passing ship is wrecked and its passengers, including Antonio and Alonso, washed ashore.

Enter Ferdinand, selected by Prospero as a suitable mate for his daughter, and son of Alonso. In the meantime Caliban and some men from the ship conspire to kill Prospero, and Antonio to kill Alonso. With the help of Ariel, Prospero prevents this, arranges a wedding for Ferdinand and Miranda, and forgives all involved in his exile. Finally he takes back his Dukedom and leaves the island, setting Ariel free. And they al live happily ever after.

In Forbidden Planet the imperious philologist Morbius and his daughter Altaira are the sole survivors of the ship Bellerophon which landed on Altair IV 20 years ago. A "dark, terrible planetary force" (Caliban) "literally" tore everyone else "limb from limb", and vaporised their ship. We learn that this occurred after a vote had been taken to return to Earth, and that Morbius and his wife were devastated at the prospect of leaving. Morbius is assisted by a robot named Robby (Ariel). A ship arrives under the command of John Adams (Ferdinand) to search for survivors, but is warned off by Morbius. He stresses that should they land he "cannot be answerable for the safety of [the] ship or [the] crew". They follow their orders regardless, and meet the reclusive, secretive Morbius, his beautiful daughter (who has never seen another human), and the family servant - the highly advanced robot Robby. We eventually learn that the source of Morbius's achievements and his power (his magic) is the ancient and highly advanced technology of the former inhabitants of the planet, the Krell, which he has managed to master to some extent over the past two decades.

In the light of the deaths of Morbius's colleagues Adams needs to contact Earth Base for new orders. To do this the spaceship is temporarily left disabled to construct and power the communications device. Morbius realizes with horror that he may have to leave Altair IV and his work for two years should he have to return to Earth to be debriefed. When his unwelcome visitors leave his house he can be seen putting his arm around his daughter, who is obviously as taken with the first young men she has ever seen as they are with her.

During the night an unseen something enters the ship and sabotages it. It seems that the long dormant destructive force has re-awakened. Previously Morbius and his daughter were never harmed, but when Altaira is attacked by her pet tiger the next day - after kissing Commander Adams with every sign of enjoyment - it becomes clear that she is no longer safe from whatever haunts the planet. Her attraction to the commander, and her awakening sexuality and individuality seem to move her out of a sphere of protection which has surrounded her up to that point.

Finding Adams and Ostrow in his study Morbius proceeds to introduce them to the wonders of the lost Krell civilization. He demonstrates a Krell teaching device which he used to raise his intellect to the level necessary to decode enough of their technology to build Robby, and to gain some understanding of the ethically and technologically advanced Krell and their history. The subterranean Krell construct is "a single machine, a cube 20 miles on each side", source of the enormous Krell power Morbius now has at his disposal, and all that is left of a once mighty race which even managed to conquer their "baser selves". (Interestingly, on the approach to the planet the ship was "radar-scanned" from an area covering 20 square miles.) Ominously, all the Krell perished in the course of a single night, 2,000 centuries ago, apparently on the verge of a great breakthrough.

After the murder of a United Planets Federation officer Morbius reminds Adams that he warned him and tells him that the first death is just the beginning. Asked how he knows Morbius responds that he "seem[s] to visualize it". That night the monster launches a full-scale attack on the camp during which a further three crewmembers die.

During the battle the camera cuts away from the action to show Morbius asleep in the lab while the gauges all around him indicate a huge power drain. Adams decides that Morbius and his daughter have to be evacuated, and that either he or Doc Ostrow has to use the "brain booster" to learn how to combat the unseen force that stalks them. (It will be remembered that it vaporised the Bellerophon when it tried to take off 20 years earlier.)

At the residence Adams tries to convince Altaira to come with them while the doctor slips away unseen to the Krell lab. Soon after Robby carries the dying Ostrow into the lounge, where he has time to explain all to Adams before he dies prettily on the sofa.

It seems that the Krell did in fact complete their final project, which made "creation through mere thought" possible via the great machine. They failed to realise that they were not only giving their collective Ego access to the machine, but also their Id. (Morbius defines "Id" as "elementary basis of the subconscious mind".) As Adams puts it:

"And so those mindless beasts of the subconscious had access to a machine that could never be shut down. The secret devil of every soul on the planet all set free at once to loot and maim and take revenge, Morbius! And kill!"

The resulting destruction wiped out the Krell, and everything they established above ground. In terms of the plot it is no accident that what remains of them is subterranean. When the unseen force attacks the house, Robby is incapable of defending them. Earlier Morbius told them how Robby was incapable of harming human beings. Adams has to explain to Morbius what he refuses to see:

"Morbius, that thing out there. It's you!"

At their first meeting Morbius told Adams:

"And yet, always in my mind I seem to feel the creature is lurking somewhere close at hand, sly and irresistible, only waiting to be re-invoked for murder."

That turns out to be an accurate description of what was going on. (It occurs to me that it's not the sort of thing one should say if one is trying to convince people that you're OK and they should leave!) It seems that his use of the Krell educating device, which left him with his intellectual capacity doubled, also forged a bond between him and the great machine - which it will be remembered, can power something without "direct wiring". And the great machine belonged to a race which managed to "free [themselves] once and for all from any dependence on physical instrumentality".

When Morbius's studies gave him access to their power, he set foot on the same path which lead to their destruction. Unconsciously giving free reign to the ravening monster from his own Id - equal in size and power to his over-weening Ego, and fueled by alien technology - he indirectly caused the deaths of all the colonists when they wanted to return to Earth, as well as the sabotage and murder on the newly arrived Earthship. What he would never do or accomplish consciously his subsconcious "monster" had no compunction about doing with brute force.

As the monster gets closer they decide to hide in the alien laboratory, behind thick Krell steel which even a blaster can"t melt but the monster, drawing on the tremendous power below, breaks through. Morbius finally stands up against it, though he still tries to deny it and give it up, and dies - but not before showing Adams how to set in motion a runaway chain reaction involving all the "Krell furnaces". He literally created a monster, and was the only one with the power to stop it. The ship is at last free to leave. Through the viewer the survivors watch the planet blow up, taking with it its dangerous machines and temptations.

The End.

Every time I see the film it blows me away. There is a solid plot at its core, a solid idea, backed up by fine performances, glorious colour cinematography, great special effects and great production design. Three of my favourite scenes are the battle between the monster and the United Planets force, the scene in which Morbius shows off his house's massive shutters, the disintegration of the tiger, and of course the scenes which illustrate the scale and majesty of the Krell machine. In the latter the camera zooms in on three tiny figures on a walkway crossing an enormous ventilator shaft which stretches up and down as far as the eye can see. The film does a great job of impressing on one the scale of the alien machine and its unfathomable power.

I'm sure viewers today find the crew members' lusting after Altaira a bit over the top - they appear ready to jump her at a moment's notice. But her innocence and ignorance actually serve a purpose in the plot - she isn't simply there to be ogled. As long as she remains as she is she belongs completely to Morbius, as did the remnants of the Krell civilization before the intrusion of Adams and the others. Morbius believes his motives to be pure, but he is power-hungry and egotistical. He denies his baser impulses, he denies the very existence of his Id. This leaves him free from responsibility for its actions, and allows his Id to operate without constraint - and to solve his problems for him. (He even warned Adams that "I wash my hands of all responsibility" for what happened if they landed.)

When he feels Altaira slipping from his grasp, and his sole ownership of the Krell machine threatened, his Id - enhanced by Krell technology in the same way as his intellect and his Ego - goes on the rampage. When Altaira chooses to ally herself with Adams she becomes the target as opposed to one of the obsessions of Morbius' Id.

With hindsight one becomes aware how many clues there are in the film and in Morbius' pronouncements which point at the origin of the monster. See the Quotes section for some of these. I love the logic to the narrative, and the way the story unfolds. In the final event the text seems to argue that the beasts in us are stronger than our "civilized" impulses. This makes it imperative that we do not overreach ourselves. We are not mature enough to handle the technological marvels we come up with. However, one day in the distant future when the technologically advanced human race reaches the cusp the Krell did they will at least have the example of Morbius' Id and the Krell machine to guide them, as we the viewers have Forbidden Planet.

The visual treatment of Forbidden Planet was unsurpassed until 2001: A Space Odyssey, made 12 years later. Despite its flaws, it remains one of the few masterpieces of science fiction cinema.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Custer
Space Sector Commander


Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 932
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1956 for Forbidden Planet, 1968 for 2001: A Space Odyssey... and then 1977 for A New Hope? It's interesting to look back and see how things changed over the space of a comparatively few years.

Watching the film while we were having the ASF group chat, it certainly held up very well, after almost sixty years. I suppose it was released before the "Space Race" really got going, hence the comparatively long time in the future, the end of our current century, before we Earth people were out exploring even our own Solar System. 2001 certainly moved things along, on that front.

What would the film be like with ordinary orchestral music, I wonder? The Krell's theramin score was certainly suitably unearthly, though there were times when it was hard to be sure what was music, and what was sound effects. Someone commented on the similarities with a Star Trek episode, and one could easily claim that FP was an inspiration for Gene Roddenberry's "Wagon Train to the Stars." Kirk got the girl, of course, and there would have been no reason for Doctor McCoy to die... after all, Morbius survived that particular trial, even if he was unconscious for a day or two.

Fine costumes for the lovely Altaira of course, who was as beautiful as she was naive. I guess there was a big difference between her father's paternal pecks on the forehead, and full-on mouth-to-mouth kissing... she was no longer an innocent after that, so the beasts of the forest no longer obeyed her. Strange that the Krell, in all their time, seemed only to have brought back animals from our particular world.

I wonder if the cook managed to get any more of Robby's Special Brew on board before lift-off? Commander Adams must have had a heck of a good watch, to, after setting the self-destruct system going, be able a day later to do an accurate second-by-second countdown to zero.

Anyway, the time passed rather quickly - the movie certainly deserves its classic status.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
alltare
Quantum Engineer


Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 351

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Custer wrote:
What would the film be like with ordinary orchestral music, I wonder? The Krell's theramin score was certainly suitably unearthly, though there were times when it was hard to be sure what was music, and what was sound effects. ...

A minor correction, Custer. I don't believe that any of the "tonalities" were produced by a Theremin. Somewhere, Bebe and Louis Barron addressed that misconception, but I don't remember where.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robert (Butch) Day
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1437
Location: Arlington, WA USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The theremin was not used in Forbidden Planet. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebe_and_Louis_Barron):

The soundtrack for Forbidden Planet (1956) is today recognized as the first entirely electronic score for a film. Eerie and sinister, the soundtrack was unlike anything that audiences had heard before. Music historians have often noted how groundbreaking the soundtrack was in the development of electronic music.

On the album sleeve notes of the Forbidden Planet soundtrack, Louis and Bebe explain:

We design and construct electronic circuits which function electronically in a manner remarkably similar to the way that lower life-forms function psychologically. [...]. In scoring Forbidden Planet — as in all of our work — we created individual cybernetics circuits for particular themes and leit motifs, rather than using standard sound generators. Actually, each circuit has a characteristic activity pattern as well as a "voice". [...]. We were delighted to hear people tell us that the tonalities in Forbidden Planet remind them of what their dreams sound like.

The producers of the film had originally wanted to hire Harry Partch to do the music score. The Barrons were brought in to do only about twenty minutes of sound effects. After the producers heard the initial sample score, the Barrons were assigned an hour and ten minutes of the rest of the film. The studio wanted to move the couple to Hollywood where most of the film scores were produced at the time. But the couple would not budge, and took the work back to their New York studio.

The music and the sound effects stunned the audience. During the preview of the movie when the sounds of the spaceship landing on Altair IV filled the theater, the audience broke out in spontaneous applause. Later, the Barrons turned over their stunning audio creation to GNP Crescendo records for distribution. GNP had previously demonstrated its expertise in producing and marketing science fiction film soundtracks and executive album producer Neil Norman had proclaimed the film (and the soundtrack) his favorites.

Not everyone was happy with the score. Louis and Bebe did not belong to the Musicians' Union. The original screen credit for the film, which was supposed to read "Electronic Music by Louis and Bebe Barron", was changed at the last moment by a contract lawyer from the American Federation of Musicians. In order to not upset the union, the association with the word music had to be removed. The Barrons were credited with "Electronic Tonalities". Because of their non-membership in the union, the film was not considered for an Oscar in the soundtrack, or special effects category.


LOOK! A new piece of background info! Harry Partch as music composer!

Info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Partch

His 43-tone scale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Partch's_43-tone_scale

_________________
Common Sense ISN'T Common
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17099
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Custer wrote:
. . .she was no longer an innocent after that, so the beasts of the forest no longer obeyed her.

A common misconception about the movie is that the whimsical unicorn reference Doc makes has anything to do with Altaira's loving relationship with her pets. Doc was just being poetic -- not literal.

Custer wrote:
Strange that the Krell, in all their time, seemed only to have brought back animals from our particular world.

Strange indeed. And that's why we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking the animals were brought from Earth by the Krell.

This is the other side of the same misconception I stated above. Altaira's pets were not descendants of the animal specimens the Krell brought back, 200,000 years ago. They were the creations of Krell machine, as a direct result of Morbius' subconscious wish for his lonely daughter to have companions.

Bear in mind that this whole movie is about the mystery of a gigantic alien machine which was designed to create anything the Krell requested. However, Morbius didn't know this until the very end, and for the entire twenty years he lived on the planet, the machine had been trying to decipher his mental "requests", despite the fact that his brain — even after the brain boost — wasn't strong enough to consciously control it.

So, naturally his "requests" (subconscious concerns) were subject to misinterpretation by the machine.

As I said, Morbius didn't know any of this. He found out the Krell machine's purpose in the last few minutes of the movie!

His failure to solve the puzzle was not something this proud man was eager to admit. Notice his brief moment of silence after mentioning the Krell animal species, when Adams says, "I see! That explains the tiger and deer."

Morbius had been troubled for years by the sudden and unexplained appearance of those uncharacteristically friendly animals — but he didn't want to admit his ignorance to Adams and Ostrow when Adams made his statement.

So, Morbius just let Adam's false assumption pass without comment.






After all, he was about reveal the existence of the huge Krell machine to these guys — and then confess that after twenty years of diligent study he still didn't have a clue as to what the damn thing was!

A line of dialog was cut from the scene shown below, in which Adam's question — "What's all for?" — is actually answered by Morbius.






But in the released film, Morbius again declines to comment, choosing instead to deflect the question by say, "Uh . . . sometime the gauges register a little when the buck deer fight in the Autumn and the birds fly over in the spring."

But in the work print, Adams repeats the question and demands an answer. Morbius reluctantly confesses that he doesn't know the machine's purpose is, even after studying it for twenty years.

I've always been puzzled by the fans of this film who don't seem to appreciate the way the story gives us ample clues — both big and little — that Morbius' subconscious was being "bugged" by the Krell machine in its diligent efforts to function as the Krell had intended.

The clues include the way Morbius' strong wish to remain on Altair 4 caused the misguided machine to destroy the Bellerophon and her crew when they wanted him to leave.

And is was Morbius' concern for his lonely daughter's happiness that caused the machine to create her friendly (even a friendly tiger, which certainly wouldn't have been Morbius' conscious choice).

Morbius' anxiety over this new starship crew who wanted to take him away from his home caused the machine to respond just as it had the first time, twenty year earlier.






And finally, Morbius' comment about the power gauges in the lab becoming active when the buck deer fight and the birds migrate is the fourth clue that the machine is using power to actively create the animals, just for the benefit of Morbius and his daughter, a subtle way of enhancing the beauty of the planet they call home.

As story elements, these clues concerning the true nature of the Krell machine are brilliant. Unfortunately, not every viewer has understood their meaning.

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:42 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
orzel-w
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1876

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My memory is a little spotty on this, but I read the book treatment by W.J. Stuart many eons ago. In it he describes Doc Ostrow's dissection of one of the animals (I believe struck and killed accidentally by the ship's tractor). The animal's interior is a spaghetti of tubes rather than the organs one would expect to find, indicating its nonterrestrial origins.
_________________
...or not...

WayneO
-----------
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17099
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

__________________________________________

Reading the novel in high school in the 1960s was what put me onto the concept, and since then I've promoted and debated it like crazy — as you well know, Wayne.


________________



All those discussions with smart people who either challenged my analysis or added supporting evidence have left me firmly convinced that W.J. Stuart (aka Phillip MacDonald) was right about his suggestion that the animals were artificial.

I even asked Forbidden Planet historian Bill Malone (through Facebook) about the controversy, and he reply with this.




_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:43 pm; edited 7 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Krel
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to look at my copy of the novel, but I seem to remember the description of the Monkey's chest being filled with a fibrous material that resembles cotton. When I read the book, for some reason I wondered if the machine would make a replacement if something happened to one of the animals. I'm sure Morbius wouldn't have wanted a young Altaira to be upset at the loss of an animal.

I also have a theory about the Tiger. It is indicated that Altair IV is a normal planet with different environments. There is a comment about the landing site being situated out in the desert. It is lush around Morbius's house, and there are even trees and vegetation near the ship. If you have vegetation, then you most likely have animals. During the great night of slaughter the Krell's Ids were most likely so preoccupied with killing each other, that the wildlife was, for the most part ignored. With native wildlife around, Altaira might need protection. A Tiger would provide good protection.

David.
Back to top
orzel-w
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1876

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel wrote:
I'd have to look at my copy of the novel, but I seem to remember the description of the Monkey's chest being filled with a fibrous material that resembles cotton. When I read the book, for some reason I wondered if the machine would make a replacement if something happened to one of the animals. I'm sure Morbius wouldn't have wanted a young Altaira to be upset at the loss of an animal.

Yeah, coulda been fibrous stuff rather than pasta, for all the help my memory is.

I suppose a replacement animal would show up some night if Morbius was aware of the loss.
_________________
...or not...

WayneO
-----------
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Custer
Space Sector Commander


Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 932
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All very intriguing. I see that a theremin was actually used in The Day the Earth Stood Still, not to mention Spellbound.

So why did the tiger attack Altaira, and have to be zapped? Did that reflect the attitude of her father to her fooling around with the newcomers?

I see that Philip "W. J. Stuart" MacDonald wrote four SF short stories over the decades; despite his meagre science fiction output, two of MacDonald's SF short stores (1931's "Our Feathered Friends" and 1949's "Private - Keep Out!") are frequently anthologized, that Wikipedia page mentions. Was the Stuart name a tip of the hat to Don A. Stuart, I wonder, the name John W. Campbell Jr used for some stories, including the novella "Who Goes There?" - the basis for The Thing From Another World.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Krel
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Custer wrote:
So why did the tiger attack Altaira, and have to be zapped? Did that reflect the attitude of her father to her fooling around with the newcomers?.

It reflected the fact that she had fallen in love, and her affections had shifted from her Father to Commander Adams.

David.
Back to top
Krel
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

orzel-w wrote:
I suppose a replacement animal would show up some night if Morbius was aware of the loss.

But Morbius's subconscious was linked to the machine, and knew things that Morbius didn't know, and would act. Morbius's Id knew when Altaira had fallen in love with Commander Adams, and took action with the Tiger. Given that the machine would know if one of it's creations had ceased to function, it is likely that the Id would just order up a replacement

Or, am I over thinking this? Laughing

David. :
Back to top
orzel-w
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1876

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're all overthinking this, David. But that's the fun of it.
_________________
...or not...

WayneO
-----------
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17099
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_____________________________

It's impossible to "overthink" Forbidden Planet. Heck, there are still aspects of the story we don't fully understand and appreciate! Shocked

Here's a perfect example.


Krel wrote:
[The vegetation] is lush around Morbius' house, and there are even trees and vegetation near the ship. If you have vegetation, then you most likely have animals. During the great night of slaughter the Krell's Ids were most likely so preoccupied with killing each othe that the wildlife was, for the most part, ignored. With native wildlife around, Altaira might need protection. A Tiger would provide good protection.

When I read the book, for some reason I wondered if the machine would make a replacement if something happened to one of the animals. I'm sure Morbius wouldn't have wanted a young Altaira to be upset at the loss of an animal.

Good point. I agree with most of it completely. Very Happy

We should bear in mind that Morbius was not aware that the machine had made the animals, nor even that the machine had that ability. The climax of the movie shows us that Morbius knew absolutely nothing about the machine's purpose or abilities.

Therefore, he wouldn't have consciously caused the machine to replace the monkey — but you're absolutely right to suggest that Morbius' fatherly concern for his daughter's happiness might have caused the machine to create a replacement for the beloved lost pet.


img]http://i.imgur.com/DPxx1HB.png[/img]

Krel wrote:
Given that the machine would know if one of it's creations had ceased to function, it is likely that the Id would just order up a replacement

Agreed! The machine would simply replace the monkey as a sort of "routine maintenance" task. The dead monkey was like a broken object which was valued by the person who (subconsciously) ordered its creation, and when it was broken, the machine replaced it.

Also, one part of your statement above opens up a whole new avenue of speculation.


Krel wrote:
During the great night of slaughter the Krell's Ids were most likely so preoccupied with killing each other that the wildlife was, for the most part, ignored.

But wait a minute! Where are the animals indigenous to Altair 4? We never see a single animal that isn't a Krell machine duplicate of an Earth organism! Even the "buck deer that fight in the Autumn and the birds that fly over in the Spring" are copies of animals from Earth.

This suggests all kinds of interesting ideas. What if the destruction caused during the Krell Massacre was much more devastating than we ever considered. What if all life on Altair 4 was destroyed in that cataclysmic event?

I should point out here that Adams' dialog in the climax is more than just one man's speculation about what happened — his dialog is the method by which the screenwriter tells us what he envisioned as the true fate of the Krell. John Adams is, in that scene, explaining complex ideas on behalf of the story teller, Cyril Hume.

Adams describes the event as "the secret devil of every soul on the planet, all set free at once . . . to loot and maim . . . and take revenge, Morbius, and kill!"



Wow. That's pretty extreme. And we're not just talking about Id monsters running around murdering people. The Id monster was created by the machine in response to Morbius' own human psyche, an interpretation by the machine of Morbius' semi-coherent subconscious thoughts.

But what kind of forces would be unleashed by the super-intelligent Krells' subconscious when their hidden Mr. Hydes were allowed to vent "their own subconscious hate and lust for destruction", as Adams so vividly describes it.

Pondering that question leads us to a disturbing idea that explains something I've always been puzzled by. Why are there absolutely no remnants of the vast and technologically advanced Krell civilization left on the surface of the planet?

In the opening scene aboard the ship, Jerry Farman says, "I may be missing some individual structures, but there are no cities, ports, roads, bridges, dams . . . there's just no sign of civilization at all."



Really? Nothing? And yet the Krell were a very advanced civilization, so the planet would have vast areas covered with super-cities, industrial centers, and transportation systems.

Morbius later says, "Even their cloud-piercing towers of glass and porcelain and adamantine steel have crumbled back into the soil of Altair IV, and nothing — absolutely nothing — remains above ground."



Remember, however, that Morbius didn't know about the global event that unleashed the near-infinite power of the Krell machine in responds to the "subconscious hate and lust for destruction" of the entire terrified population of the Krell.

Morbius was right when he said, "My poor Krell. They could hardly have understood what power was destroying them."



Therefore, we should consider the very real possibility that an escalating chain reaction of destruction was caused by the increasing terror of the Krell, whose fear was being transmitted back to the machine.

In responds to the Krell's fear and anger, the machine would grant each endangered Krell a kind of "self-defensive backlash", a counter-force which struck out at the threat being faced by each individual. This in turned caused more destruction on an even greater scale, which in turn caused . . .

You see where I'm going with this, of course.

Gentlemen, I submit that the entire surface of the planet was ultimately ravaged by destructive forces which not only killed every living Krell, it also annihilated every living orgasm — including all the specimens brought back from other planets — and it also obliterated ever structure that was part of the Krell civilization!

The whole planet was sterilized and wiped clean, right down to the bedrock . . .

This would explain Morbius' statement that "absolutely nothing remained above ground." The only artifact of the Krell civilization which survived this global apocalypse was the underground complex of the machine itself.

Even 200,000 years later the planet doesn't look like it has oceans and large areas of vegetation, as shown in all the scenes we see of it from space.









Consider the implications of this. Not only does it explain why no traces of the buildings remain, it also explains why we see no indigenous animals or insects.

The plant life we do see is very limited, but of course we only see a portion of a fairly arid region. However, let's not ignore the possibility that even the plants we see, especially around the Morbius home, are just as artificial as Altaira's pets, along with the buck deer and the migrating birds — which I suggested earlier were created by the machine simply as a way of beautifying the living area of the machine's "master", Morbius.



Creating pleasant vegetation in the area where Morbius and his daughter live seems like a pretty obvious thing for the obedient machine to do. It's simply serving Morbius' subconscious desires to provide a good home for himself and his daughter.

The idea that so many people seem to have trouble grasping is that Morbius' "expanded intellect" doesn't transmit clear commands to the machine. His subconscious thoughts would be like murky images and mumbled words to the machine. It would struggle to determine what it was being "asked" to provide, and as a result it would produce its "best guess" for what Morbius seemed to want.

Hence the ill-defined, nightmare nature of the invisible Id monster, which changed size and shape when necessary, like when it entered through the ship's small hatch.



And so, Krel, I proposed that the tiger was brought into existence by the machine for no practical purpose at all. In fact, my pet theory (pardon the pun Rolling Eyes) is that Daddy was reading a children's book to little Altaira one day, and she was delighted by the picture of the "big kitty cat". So, she told Daddy she wish she had one for a playmate.

Morbius didn't consciously wish anything into existence, as we all know, and he certainly didn't consciously create a full-grown carnivore for his daughter to play with.

But perhaps the machine created the tiger after Morbius had a dream one night, a dream that was just a nutty as the dreams we all have. In this dream, little Altaira was playing in the garden with a nice, furry, friendly, full-grown tiger.

If you're wondering why Morbius didn't realize that the tiger's sudden appearance (a day or so later) coincided with his dream, Morbius actually explains that himself at the 1:31 mark in the movie when John said to him, "Twenty years ago, when your comrades voted to return to Earth, you sent your secret Id [monster] out to murder them! Not quite realizing it, of course . . . except maybe in your dreams."



And Morbius proclaims, "What man can remember his own dreams?"

How true. Dreams are weird. They faded from memory in seconds after we wake up. So, Morbius may have been mighty puzzled by the sudden appearance of a remarkably tame tiger, something impossible to logically explain. But he didn't even remember the dream about the tiger, and therefore he didn't make the connection.

Guys, I know this is a lot to take in all at once. Maybe I can recap what I'm proposing and make just a bit clearer (and shorter).

The destruction and death caused by the Krell Global Apocalypse escalated as the machine received an increasing wave of fright and confusion from the entire Krell poplution — a "race of creative geniuses" whose minds were suddenly enveloped in a terror that none of these gentle, intelligent beings had ever felt before.

When this powerful flood of incoherent fear and rage reached its zenith, the machine responded to what it could only interpret as a racial death wish. And its response was to unleash a blast of destructive force in response to the millions of Krell minds lashing out in terror at the "power that was destroying them".

As a result, the surface of the planet was so devastated that no life survived and no remnant of the Krell civilization remained.

Because of this, all the animals we see on Altair 4 are facsimiles of Earth organisms, fabricated by the vast machine which was designed to create objects "in any shape or color, for any purpose" at the request of the one mind on the planet strong enough to activate the great machine.

My God . . . what a movie. Shocked

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:48 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robert (Butch) Day
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1437
Location: Arlington, WA USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For further discussion: Did Dr. Morbius also create the fruit in the bowl (cantaloupe, bananas, limes, etc.) that the Capuchin monkey tried to steal out of?
_________________
Common Sense ISN'T Common
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Sci-Fi Movies and Serials from 1950 to 1969 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 24, 25, 26 ... 141, 142, 143  Next
Page 25 of 143

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group