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Gord Green
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 Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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I think the SciFiSteve video is fascinating. He extrapolates perfectly from the available verified data (movie, script as well as the novelization.)
If they ever do a remake of this beloved movie the perfect idea would be to do a prequel showing the Belleraphon expedition's experience.
Bravo Krel, for your ideas!
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Krel
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| orzel-w wrote: | | Krel wrote: | | ... figuring how to get into the lab... |
Now there's an interesting point of conjecture. The lab was secured with combination locks. Yet mere Earthlings somehow managed to figure out the combination(s). Some security! |
The excavation would be treated like an archeological dig, which it was. It would take weeks or months as every piece is examined and cataloged. As for the combination lock, if it was locked, well every combination lock can be hacked if you have the patience and time to go though all the permutations. With combination locks, they count on you giving up, or taking so long that you will be discovered. There were no Krell left to discover them trying. Who knows, they might have gotten lucky and found the door sealed but unlocked. Or they might have gotten lucky and hit the combination in the first few tries. I think they found it sealed but unlocked. I doubt the Krell had much warning when the night of slaughter began.
Bud, I've seen that video, but I don't buy it. C-57-D is too small to hold a large number of passengers. The ship would have to have fantastic life support and recycling systems just for the number of crew it has. The lower level (1st level?) would be ships systems and storage. There may be compartment on the upper level of the dome across from the gunner's stations, but you never see that part of the ship, so who knows. I like to think that is where the Officers cabins were.
They were hoping to find survivors, but after 20 years of no contact, I don't think Earth expected them to find any, or they would have sent a larger ship.
David. |
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orzel-w
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like Gord has a better grasp of the view of the matte painting of Morbius' house, Bud.
Here's my estimate of the viewing direction (green arrow) for the painting's perspective. Altaira's swimming pool is the giveaway. The painting shows it to the right of the house, so we're looking at the house from the side, seeing mostly the "back yard" of the house.
On the studio's house plan I've shown bodies of water called out on the plan in blue.
All rock formations indicated on the plan are pink.
The "driveway" (where we see both Robby's jeep and the ship's tractor/crane pull up in front of the house) is yellow. The feature you indicated in your image, Bud, is the roof overhang of the forecourt.
I take the sloping extension of the house on the near left side in the painting to be the roof over Morbius' study. It slopes downward because the tunnel from his study to the Krell lab is the beginning of the underground passages, although not shown sloping explicitly in the interior set.
If you're looking to match up every feature we see in the movie with a corresponding element in the matte painting, forget it. Some things are just not included.
| Bud Brewster wrote: | | If you're still convinced the matte painting shows the rear of the house, the Cinefantastique article states that the artist who created the matte painting was relieved when the special effects department decided not to mar his painting with an FX shot of the jeep's dust cloud approaching from the right side along the flat landscape... |
Follow the yellow brick road.
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Last edited by orzel-w on Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gord Green
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Orzel wrote: | | It slopes downward because the tunnel from his study to the Krell lab is the beginning of the underground passages, although not shown sloping explicitly in the interior set. |
I think that's true. The rock formations are hinted at in the matte painting. It also shows a tall rock spire where the Krell lab would be located.
I think these were originaly spires, like those that abound on Altair-4 but were taken down during the excavation process.
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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Eadie
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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The grates on the ground at both the main and terrace entrances are part of of a drainage system indicating that there are, probably, seasonal rains. It makes me wonder what season on Altair IV it was.
AS to the combination to the lock , that's easy! It's a logic puzzle featuring geometric shapes and colors. I figured it out years ago. it's not hard. The Krell were very logical (if vain) beings. The gig question is WHY so much protection along with a self destruct mechanism? What were they afraid of? [They seemed to make the same mistake that the creators of Colossus did!]
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Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable.
Last edited by Eadie on Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gord Green
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Well, I don't know that there would not be room for the Belleraphon crew onboard the C-57-D.
There are only 11 graves in the graveyards.
The one large gravestone is no doubt the marker for Morbius's wife Julia.
So that would mean that there were 12 (colonists including Julia plus Morbius.) and the 3 vaporized in the ship for a total of 16. (If you want to include Altara) That few could have been accommodated by the C-57-D with little problem.
And I agree that the lab may have been sealed but unlocked. That seems logical.
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orzel-w
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Gord Green wrote: | | There are only 11 graves in the graveyards. |
I see 12 if you count that light-colored barrel shape (or tiki head) in the middle.
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Gord Green
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:48 am Post subject: |
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I don't see more than eleven......Where do you see the twelfth one?
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orzel-w
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord Green wrote: | | Where do you see the twelfth one? |
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Gord Green
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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You're right! Didn't see that as a cross, but it very well may be!
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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Eadie
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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So how many crewmen and how many scientists? (We know that one has to be the captain of the EX-101 Bellerophon as Dr. Morbius stated that he was killed by the plastic educator.)
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Last edited by Eadie on Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gord Green
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Morbius said that "The last three crewmen were killed when the Belleraphon was vaporized taking off."
So that's...the Captain -1 died from the "brain boost"
three crew -3 vaporized on takeoff
Morbius & Julia -2
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total 6
5 of the graves were for the above (Not Morbius of course!)
So if there's 12 graves the crew compliment would be 13.
I think the Belleraphon as an exploratory ship was probably very heavily automated and maybe was of a comparable size to the C-57-D.
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Eadie
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:29 am Post subject: |
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I think probably larger as it was sent some 20 Earth years earlier. Technology tends to reduce in size and with advances take up less room.
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Bud Brewster
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Wayne, you clever old dog, you solved the mystery of why Gord and I have been locking horns over this! 
I must admit, I got very nervous when I read your statement below and suddenly realized I might have been making a horrible mistake! 
| orzel-w wrote: | | I take the sloping extension of the house on the near left side in the painting to be the roof over Morbius' study. It slopes downward because the tunnel from his study to the Krell lab is the beginning of the underground passages, although not shown sloping explicitly in the interior set. |
After studying the matte painting again to determine if the long extension in front was NOT a sort of "breezeway" to shelter the front entrance (as I've thought for years), I realized that it might indeed be the roof over Morbius study — and that was a revelation!
If that's Morbius' study, then it might solve a major problem we've discussed concerning the matte painting. That long extension could be the connection between the house and the mountain in front of it, thereby explaining how the tunnel from the study leads directly into solid rock while remaining at ground level.
Yes, I know . . . you guys have already discussed this in the posts above. However, I think I've spotted a major flaw in that idea. If the extension is the roof of Morbius' study and it connects with the "mountain" through the tunnel leading into the lab . . . they would both completely block the jeep road! 
Also bear in mind that Morbius' study is only a little wider than the star field mural, and it's only 14' wide. If that small room had a roof extension which adjoined the large rock outcropping directly to the house, the roof of the study would only be about 14' out from the house. . . which is about the width of the flat "balcony-like" structure that partially surrounds the house in the matte painting.
It certainly wouldn’t need to be as long as that extension!
Besides, I’m not clear on why the roof of the study itself would need to slope downward. The slope of the tunnel (if it had one) and the rock ceiling above it would have nothing to do with the ceiling or the roof of Morbius’ study. And we know the study does not have a sloped ceiling . . . or a sloped floor! 
My own impression of the extension is that’s it level, not sloped. It’s viewed from an considerable elevation, and the artist gave it an exaggerated perspective just for aesthetic appeal. (That's how I would have done it.  )
But the bottom line is this: there would be no need for an extension as long as the one in the matte painting if that’s the roof of Morbius’s small study. And if the mountain which the tunnel leads into was at that location, it would block the jeep road.
Admittedly the living room is also between the Core and the study, so I considered the possibility that it was part of the extension as well.
The two portions of the house do form a rectangle, but they aren't attached to the outer perimeter of the house like the extension is. Instead, they interrupt the circular Core like a pie cut almost in half. (See jpeg above).
Because of that, the extension can not be a combination of the living room and the study.
But the rectangular "wing" of the house near the pool would actually be a better place to put both the living room and the study. If you look closely at the wing of the building on the right, it too cuts into the circular Core — but it does it on the near side to us, instead of far side.
So, despite the inconsistencies when compared to the blueprint, the wing is our best candidate for the living room and study.
In view of these consideration, I'm beginning to think I was right along about the extension being a breezeway for the front entrance, instead of it being the roof over both the living room and/or study.
Besides, based on the small portion we can see at the end, it doesn't seem to merge with the large rock in front of it!
Apparently Wayne doesn't think it joins with the rock either, because his jpeg with the jeep road obviously assumes that there's quite a wide gap between the house and the rocks in the foreground. He took the jeep road outside the edge of the sizable forest!
I've always assumed that the trees near the house blocked our view of the jeep road, and that the front entrance was beneath the breezeway. If that's true, this would be a more likely route for the jeep.
I did a little landscaping to make it match the set better.
If that long "extension" is a breezeway over the main entrance as I've always assumed, then we need to reconsider Wayne's jpeg that indicates his opinion of where the POV of the matte painting would be.
The first problem I see is that the house is positioned almost in profile, which the painting clearly does not do. The pool is more towards the back of the house in the painting.
And Wayne’s POV arrow is pointing at the pool patio in back of the house. My own POV arrow is positioned to point at the nearest section of the house in the painting, relative to the viewer.
If the "extension" (which I added in red to the blueprint below) is a breezeway over the main entrance, the angular difference between the breezeway and Wayne's POV arrow is too great. That means the blueprint has been turned much too far in a clockwise direction. It's at a 45° angle relative his POV arrow, whereas in the painting, the angular difference between the POV and the extension is only about 20°.
If we assume the extension is a breezeway over the front entrance, then the green arrow I added to Wayne's blueprint below would be correct. Notice that the angular difference between the green arrow and the red rectangle showing the "extension" is only about 20°.
And my arrow in the matte painting points at the area between the front entrance and Morbius' study, which is just to the right of the breezeway, if we go by the blueprint’s location of the study (not the matte painting, because we don't know where the study is for sure).
If my arrow in the blueprint is correct in pointing to the area just to the right of the breezeway over the front entrance, then the next thing to do is align my blueprint POV arrow with my matte painting POV arrow.
We do this by pointing them both straight "up".
__________ 
Ta-Daaaa! 
Notice that the angular difference of the POV arrow and the breezeway are the same in both jpegs.
I hope we can all now agree that the long, narrow extension which does NOT connect to the side of the small mountain is a better candidate for a drive-through breezeway at the front entrance than an extension of the roof, which contains the living room and/or the study.
I'll confess I was pleasantly surprised when I rotated the blueprint and realized this orientation placed the pool well in BACK of the house, almost where it is in the computer graphic — although the graphic is turned a bit more counterclockwise relative to the blueprint, so the pool is more to the left.
It's another example of how the matte artist rearranged the elements for aesthetic reasons, despite the fact that they ended up not matching the set in many ways.
However, the placement of the pool the way it is in my rotated version of Wayne's blueprint does correct something I described as an error in a previous post.
I stated that the graveyard was here, to the left of the pool if you're standing on the back patio —
— and I pointed out that Morbius and Adams were gazing off to the right of the pool when Morbius is talking about it.
However, now that I've proven that the correct relationship of the pool to the house places it at the eleven o'clock position, the two men are actually looking in the right direction after all, because the pool should be located HERE (see arrow below), and the graveyard is at the twelve o'clock position relative to the house!
__________
But the matte artist wanted to show that dramatic and architecturally appealing drive-through breezeway at the front entrance, as well as the matted-in water of the swimming pool, so he didn't hide the pool behind the house where it should actually be, according to the blueprint!
As a fellow artist I can easily understand his reasons for doing this.
I've always thought the artist's intention was to present something similar to a Frank Lloyd Wright house, like his famous Fall Water.
For that reason, the breezeway has that extra length and exaggerated perspective.
Gentlemen, we're just going to have to accept the fact that the matte painting cannot be reconciled with the movie set because of the rearrangements of the elements, for the artistic reasons I just described. In fact, it’s hard for any of us to prove our favorite interpretations of the various features that disagree with the set.
However, I feel confident that I’ve made a strong case for the interpretations I’ve proposed, and I hope I've explained them well enough to avoid any further confusion.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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orzel-w
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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I learned way back in the thread for The Thing how many grains of salt to apply to your evaluations of set layouts, Bud.
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WayneO
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