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Continuing Education
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orzel-w
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:28 pm    Post subject: Continuing Education Reply with quote

Who says a website devoted to sci-fi can't be educational as well? Certainly not I.

Starting way back in the 1980s, I began noticing the misuse of apostrophes in public signage and written materials. (It was a little harder to tell if they were being applied incorrectly in talk radio.) Fast forward to the 2000s, where I saw a sign that included an apostrophe in a Spanish word. (For those not familiar with Spanish, it has no apostrophes.) Nowadays hardly a day passes without notice of at least a few applications of apostrophes. Apparently, either apostrophic ignorance had gained a foothold in our educational system and was now being passed along by teachers, or it was just no longer an engrossing subject in school.

Well, I'm gonna do what I can to help alleviate that shortcoming. Personally, judging from the apparent ability to convey meaning even with misplaced apostrophes, I feel that we could just as easily do away with them altogether. But as long as we're still using them, we might as well use them correctly.

Now, if you're still with me, there are only a couple rules, and one small exception, of any consequence for applying apostrophes. Apostrophes are used:

1. Denoting contraction.
This is where one or more letters are left out, usually when words are compounded. Examples: don't (for "do not"), can't (for "can not" or "cannot"), wouldn't (for "would not"), we're (for "we are"). This would also apply when years are shortened, as with the '80s (for "the 1980s").

2. Denoting possession.
This is the case where a person or thing owns or possesses or is responsible for the item being referenced. Examples: Fred's fingernails; writer's cramp; a stone's throw.

Now the minor exception... Apostrophes are not used for possessive personal pronouns. Examples: ours, yours, his, hers, theirs, whose, and the most commonly misapplied case, its. It's (with an apostrophe) is a contraction of "it is" or "it has". It does not denote a possession of "it".
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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, A grammar cop.

Amongst linguists the spoken language has the only correct usage. The "rules" you posted were created by the Victorian upper class.
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert (Butch) Day wrote:
Ah, A grammar cop.

No, not a cop; an educator. No enforcement forthcoming, just putting it out on the table.

Robert (Butch) Day wrote:
Amongst linguists the spoken language has the only correct usage.

If we're going to be communicating here in writing rather than by spoken language, shall we not aspire to write correctly? Spoken language doesn't have any apostrophes.

Or punctuation.

Or capitalization.

Or spelling.

Or italics.

We, on the other hand, are using them on this site.

Robert (Butch) Day wrote:
The "rules" you posted were created by the Victorian upper class.

I suppose it was necessary for them to take on the task, as the lower class was mostly illiterate and didn't publish much to speak of. What rules, then, would you suggest using, if any? Are we suddenly boycotting the Victorian upper class, or what? Have there been any new rules formulated that supersede these?

Here's a chance to learn something we didn't get in school, from the looks of it. For that matter, I didn't learn the correct distinction between it's and its myself until I was way past school age.
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Brent Gair
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Joined: 21 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm absolutely in favor of grammar cops.

As more and more communication is done online and with things like texting, I find it increasingly difficult to understand what I'm reading.

I'm certainly not perfect but I make an effort to be understood. One big problem is that the internet has dramatically accelerated the mutation of language.

For the longest time, I have been seeing the word "prolly" used on the net. As I learned from my old English granny, prolly is an old colloquialism for a baby carriage. However, in the minds of an increasing number of net users, "prolly' is the typed form of "probably".

I've also noticed how many slang terms and colloquialisms have evolved into nonsense terms. For example, the term "boat load" is a perectly logical colloquialism describing a large amount. In recent years, it has become common to describe a large amount as a "butt load". Does that make any sense?

Maybe it's a moo point. Let Joey explain.

https://youtu.be/8bo54wE_rJU
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Or bolding.

Or colored fonts.

Or various sizes of fonts.

Or hyperlinks.




Or smiley faces. Very Happy
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent Gair wrote:
Maybe it's a moo point. Let Joey explain.

https://youtu.be/8bo54wE_rJU

I've collected a whole mess of misused colloquialisms from postings on website forums. It's kind of like puns. You have conflicted feelings about whether to laugh or knock your head against the wall. The main difference is that puns are intentional.
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Randy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Continuing Education Reply with quote

orzel-w wrote:

Now the minor exception... Apostrophes are not used for possessive personal pronouns. Examples: ours, yours, his, hers, theirs, whose, and the most commonly misapplied case, its. It's (with an apostrophe) is a contraction of "it is" or "it has". It does not denote a possession of "it".


Minor exception ... when referring to a real it, such as Cousin It, one would have to use an apostrophe when referring to It's mail box.
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exceptional, all right.

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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The character's name is spelled "Itt".
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scotpens
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One major bug up my bum is the incorrect use of homophones like affect and effect, or principle and principal. It's really not that hard to remember which one to use.

Brent Gair wrote:
. . . I've also noticed how many slang terms and colloquialisms have evolved into nonsense terms. For example, the term "boat load" is a perectly logical colloquialism describing a large amount. In recent years, it has become common to describe a large amount as a "butt load". Does that make any sense?

No, but neither do plenty of common expressions and idioms. For example, "kitty corner." What do diagonally opposite corners have to do with felines? (Look up the etymology of that phrase if you're not familiar with it.)

An eggcorn, on the other hand, is an inadvertent word substitution that does seem to make some kind of sense. Examples: free reign instead of rein, butt naked instead of buck naked, throws of passion instead of throes.

Brent Gair wrote:
Maybe it's a moo point.

I thought it was a mute point. In which case, shut up! Laughing
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've lately become heated up over the substitution of further for farther. However, I see that the guardians of proper English usage have thrown the game and allowed it. Not so vice versa, however. At least that's something.
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Randy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I traveled further and further until I ended up farther from my home than I had ever been before.

or

I traveled farther and farther until I ended up further from my home then I had ever been before.

I see nothing wrong with using either.
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philistine. Rolling Eyes
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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Wikitionary —

FARTHER

Adjective Comparative form of far: more far Of or pertaining to being distant, or of greater distance in degree or of extension in time.

Adverb Comparative form of far: more far.

FURTHER

Verb (transitive)
1) To encourage growth. Further the economy.
2) To support progress or growth of something.

Adjective

1) Comparative form of far: more far; of or pertaining to being distant, or of greater distance in degree or of extension in time.
2) More, additional.

Adverb

1) Comparative form of far: more far
2) (conjunctive) Also; in addition to.
3) (location) At greater distance in space or time; farther. Washington DC is further from Europe than New York.
4) (conjunctive) Moreover; beyond what is already stated. Further, affiant sayeth naught. (A formal statement ending a deposition or affidavit, immediately preceding the affiant's signature.)

Confusing, ain't it?
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



"Luke, before you go any further, listen to me . . . I am your farther! Or vice versa."
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