ALL SCI-FI

[Bud Brewster]

[Krel]

I should clarify that I don't believe that the Gorts function as a civilian police force. I believe that they function to eliminate large scale violence that could start a war. A bank robbery, or homicide* would not be a concern for a Gort, the regular Police would handle such things. But events like those in the middle east? There will be peace, because there will be a whole lot less people.

David.

* Large scale homicides like a gang war would attract the attention of a Gort, because it has a destabilizing effect on society.

[Bud Brewster]

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That's a very good point, Krel!

The Gort Patrol is like the army, not the cops. I'm ashamed to say that this never quite occurred to me before.

But now that I'm aware of this distinction, it occurs to me that Klaatu's society would have a very extensive and well organized police force, and they might even have robot police officers working under the supervision of the sentient beings.

I guess we should bear in mind that Klaatu's interplanetary society is made up of many worlds, and each species would have it's own way of doing things. So, my suggestion above might only be applicable (if at all) to the "human" aliens like Klaatu.

But the most interesting thing that occurred to me because of your comment is the idea that the police forces and the governments of the various worlds would quite naturally report important information to the Gort Patrol whenever they thought some group, nation, or world was engaged in suspicious behavior that might be a prelude to aggression.

So, I realize now that the Gort Patrol wouldn't just lurch around everywhere, looking over the shoulders (metaphorically speaking) of the citizens to catch them misbehaving. The citizens would have organizations set up deal with the relatively minor "acts of aggression" that you described.

Krel, I formally withdraw my characterization of the Gort Patrol as being similar to Nazi Germany. That was based on a limited understanding of the system they employ.

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Krel]

[Bud Brewster]

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Ah-ha! Another Krel inspired idea!

As I mention above, the Gort Partol serves various planets with multiple types of aliens. Perhaps some of them are prone to sudden, ill-conceived acts of aggression and don't have very effective police forces of their own.

In those cases the Gort Patrol would have to play hardball and keep a very watchful eye on them. They're the Bad Boys of the galaxy, because their basic nature and thir less well-governed societies cause them to be a greater threat to peace within the Federation of Planets.

Conversely there would be other races who are such total pacifists that they present a temptation to the aggressive races who covet the pacifists resources. These peaceful aliens are heavily dependent on the Gort Patrol to prevent them from the aggressive races who would take advantage of them.

And I'm sure there's a kind of interplanetary United Nations that mediates disputes between the various civilizations and helps them find peaceful compromises. The Gort Patrol would be the enforces of their decision. An alien race who tries to use force to defy an official decision that's been handed down would be dealt with by the Gort Patrol.

As for the Nazi comparison, The Third Reich made terrible decisions and enforced them with violence. The Gort Patrol leaves governing to the sentient beings, and anybody who attempts to use violence to defy the government gets zapped.

Krel, I'm not sure I agree that the Gort Patrol was "designed to instill terror in the population, to prevent them from performing prohibited actions." Isn't that like saying that policemen with guns, and courts which give death penalties, are "designed to instill terror"?

Armed policemen and judges who give the death penalty are just severe consequences for violent acts that harm society.

In the case of Klaatu's society, they created an army of machines designed to be incorruptible judges. They carry out executions in extreme cases when the evidence (acts of aggression) is so obvious there's no need for a trial.

Yes, I know, that's simplistic — and that's why I agree with Klaatu when he said, "We do not claim to have achieved perfection . . . "

But it might actually be the only way a legal system which exists to serve numerous alien races with wildly diverse cultures and diametrically opposed natures possibly COULD work!

At some point, the legal wrangling has to stop and somebody has to take corrective action.

So, Klaatu's interplanetary society drew a line in the dirt and said, "You can only go so far — and no farther! And if you do, just keep in mind . . . there's a new sheriff in town."



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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Krel]

[Gord Green]

Remember though guys....They only were concerned with threats that could involve THEM! The Gorts didn't concern themselves with the Civil War, the Thirty years War, the Spanish American war etc.

They ONLY became concerned with the Earth after the birth of the Atomic Bomb and development of the rocket!

We can beat the heck out of ourselves as long as we didn't extend it out to them! They had no problem with aggression ...Just so long as it didn't have any effect on them!
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Krel]

As I wrote earlier, at the time Klaatu arrived on Earth, atomic weapons were still in their infancy. Rockets on all sides were blowing up on the pads, or shortly after liftoff, and the first successful artificial satellite was six years away. There is no way mankind was going to be a potential threat for a long, long time. ESPECIALLY to people we had no idea even existed!

Klaatu made it very clear that once the murder machines were in place, they would deal with ANY acts of aggression they observed. It was the only way his people could stop themselves from being in constant conflict with each other. It is an interplanetary version of Mutually Assured Destruction (M.A.D.) by third party. Start fighting and BOTH sides get eliminated.

Except they can never outgrow their verson of M.A.D., which can never be shut off.

To subject, to force this system on others without their consent is evil, worse than any done on this planet, because barring unforeseen circumstances, this evil never ends.

And no matter how humanity would have behaved, it was inevitable that Klaatu's people would have forced this on Earth. They could never allow an uncowed civilization. That would be the greatest threat to their civilization.

David.

[Bud Brewster]

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Forgive me, David, but with all due respect I think your understanding of what was presented in the movie is flawed in several very important ways. Please let me explain. I'll summarize what Klaatu said and what it meant, and then I'll post the full text of his farewell address to back it up.

[Gord Green]

[Bud Brewster]

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Absolutely correct!

Serendipitous wars are (because of their intrinsic nature) strictly excluded from any interference by the galactically mobilize mechanical enforcement units, because said units are restricted to incidences involving unaffiliated forces from diverse planets — as prescribed by the mechanical units primary mandates!

Actually, it's all very simple.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[gofffan]

I thought Klaatu's warning was to cease and desist in hostile actions against each other on the Earth, or they would make sure we would be obliterated when we got around to space travel.

[Bud Brewster]

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Gofffan, in view of these two statements, the first one delivered to Professor Barnhardt and the second in Klaltu's closing remarks —

"As long you were fighting among yourselves with your primitive tanks and aircraft, we were unconcerned. But soon one of your nations will apply atomic energy to spaceships. That will create a threat to the peace and security of other planets."

"It is no concern of ours how you run your own planet, but if you threaten to extend your violence, this Earth of yours will be reduced to a burned-out cinder."

— it's clear that the alien society didn't care what we did in our own back yard, but if we started trouble on their "property" (the rest of the galaxy), the robots would do what he stated below.

"At the first sign of violence, they act automatically against the aggressor. The penalty for provoking their actions is too terrible to risk."

Basically, Police Officer Gort wasn't here to write us a ticket. He just let us off with a "warning" this time . . .



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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Gord Green]

Of course it's always possible that the Gorts have been in existance for a very long time...millions of years in fact.

What if...Sometime in the remote past...or even more recently...something caused a "glitch" in their programing?

With the assumption that the Gorts are self replicating machines...replacing parts and entire units as they wear out over time...these "glitchs" could spread like a trojan virus through the entire corp.

The result would be that they have become the "Nazi"-like threat you've spoken of and Klatuu was indeed looking for the help of an upstart violent race of intelligent beings to help end the terrorist threat to all that the Gorts have become.

What do you think????
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Bud Brewster]