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Krel
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Something I've wondered about in the past. Why does Morbius have a car? Where is he going to go, there are no other houses. Unless he has a cabin or two in different locations. Despite the shielding, the car really doesn't have any cargo space, so camping would be difficult. He didn't strike me as the camping type, but you can never tell.
Why a car? Where does he keep it? Is there a garage off to the side? Does he keep it in Robby's workshop? If Robby manufactures everything they need, there must be a pretty good size building at the end of the road.
Considering the gaping fissures that are fairly close to the house, Robby must have been pretty busy keeping Altaira away from them where she was a child. Maybe that was another job for the Tiger, bodyguard and nursemaid. 
David. |
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Gord Green
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:32 am Post subject: |
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The car was probably constructed or (downloaded from the Belleraphon stores) early in the expedition to provide transportation for the crew around the planet.
Robby may have used it to acquire raw materials or just to give Alta and Ed a sightseeing joyride.
Originaly it probably wasn't adapted for Robby until after the crew was gone.
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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Krel
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord Green wrote: | | The car was probably constructed or (downloaded from the Belleraphon stores) early in the expedition to provide transportation for the crew around the planet. |
I don't think so. Any exploratory expedition is going to want off road, rough/all terrain vehicles, like a Jeep, or Humvee. The design of Robby's car really doesn't fit the requirements. As close to the ground the undercarriage is, it needs flat terrain, it doesn't even look like it could make it over a parking lot speed bump.
Also there are no manual controls on Robby's car,nor any indication that there ever were any type of manual controls. Those windscreens also don't leave any room for manual controls. Robby is the sole operator, and perhaps power supply.
This makes me wonder if there was a crude road from the desert to the Morbius home. If the Bellerophon crew was making regular trips to the Krell lab site, it would have been worth their while to do so. It would have made it easier to move any equipment. It would also explain how Addams was able to drive the tractor to Morbius's house so easily.
One of the actors actually controlled the Car. Does anyone know if it was from the left, or right seat and how it was steered?
David. |
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Gord Green
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Joined: 06 Oct 2014
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:00 am Post subject: |
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That piece of rock is puzzling, but so is what looks like a picnic table on the back porch!
I'm sure that's not what they really are supposed to be. Possibly that's some kind of plant on the roof and the "table" is an exterior vent for the air conditioning system....or something else.
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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orzel-w
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Krel wrote: | | Why does Morbius have a car? Where is he going to go, there are no other houses. |
The expression isn't used much anymore in the age of Interstate freeways, but when I was a kid we used to go out for a "Sunday drive". No particular destination; just out to enjoy open spaces and fresh air. (Cars didn't have A/C back then, either.)
Picnic table? 
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WayneO
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Eadie
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Sight-seeing for other Krell ruins, perhaps?
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Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable.
Last edited by Eadie on Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gord Green
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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No, I'm not saying that this "is" a picnic table....Just that it "looks" like one and seems to be on the rear patio. It certainly doesn't look like anything shown of the front entrance area.
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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orzel-w
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord Green wrote: | | No, I'm not saying that this "is" a picnic table.... |
I took it as a patch of light from the opening in the "patio cover" just above it and offset to the right.
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WayneO
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Gord Green
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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That could very well be. The light source seems to come from the left side of the picture. There are so few really clear, high resolution pictures of this painting existant. I wonder if the original exists in some ones collection?
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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Eadie
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Gord Green wrote: |
That could very well be. The light source seems to come from the left side of the picture. There are so few really clear, high resolution pictures of this painting existent. I wonder if the original exists in some ones collection?
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Mybe Bud can find out from Bill Malone?
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Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable.
Last edited by Eadie on Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:47 am; edited 2 times in total |
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orzel-w
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Gord Green wrote: | | The light source seems to come from the left side of the picture. |
You mean the "other left"??
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WayneO
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Bud Brewster
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Let's talk about those "wacky" ideas I mentioned, shall we? 
Wacky is the way Gord continues to deny that the "front" of the house is (by definition) wherever the "front door" happens to be. According to his own diagram, he thinks the “front of the house” is the rock outcropping that completely hides the house from view if we were standing off to the left.
| Quote: | I think the problem is that you think the entrance is on the actual FRONT of the house, but as you can see it's NOT!
It's slightly twisted to the right because of the rock ledge to the side of it. |
Well, I'll be doggone! You got me, Gordo! I thought the front of a house was where the "front door" was located! 
Seriously, Gord, it really doesn't matter which way you turn a blueprint, an aerial photo, or a computer graphic of a house. The front door faces the road, and the back door traditionally goes out to the patio and the swimming pool and the yard where the kids play.
And I'm pretty sure the back door doesn't have to be directly opposite the front door. It can be a bit off to one side — like it is in this case. If doesn't become the "side door" just because it's 20° off to one side.
Google "front door definition" and you'll get this.
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FRONT DOOR
noun
~ the main entrance to a house.
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Geez, ain't the houses like that were YOU live, Gord? 
For the sake of simplicity (and common sense), couldn’t we just say that everything in the front half is “the front of the house” (using the section of the house with the "front door" to make that really complex determination), and everything in the back half is “the back of the house”, using "the door more-or-less in back" to define that mind boggling concept?
After all, we can’t very well call the door that leads to the patio “the left door”, can we? Or “the left-back” door? Hmmm?
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Equally wacky is Wayne's idea that the long LEVEL extension on the near side of the house is a roof over Morbius' study . . . despite the troublesome fact that the study is only 14' wide, while the extension is obviously much longer than that. The extension appears to be at least half the width of the house, front-to-back.
Conversely, if it’s a breezeway over the front entrance, it would quite naturally extend all the way out to cover the “driveway” (the jeep road) to keep the desert sun and the infrequent rain off the car and its passengers when they're going to the mall or the grocery store.
(Fat lotta good that’ll do anybody in a two-seater convertible with no top to raise . . . but never mind THAT, eh? )
Please note that if a breezeway had actually been built for the set, it would be about as long the distance from the front entrance to the pool!
Forgive me, Wayne, but you're working so hard to make your extension theory fit the painting that you’ve colored it green on the blueprint below and included the underground Krell tunnel in a desperate effort to make it longer than a mere 14'.
Unfortunately that also made it much wider, compared to the length, than the one in the painting. 
And, of course, you still insist on ignoring the fact the tunnel does NOT slope down in the movie, so that whole idea is . . .
(Gee, what's the word I'm looking for?)
Oh, yeah. Wacky,
By a strange coincidence, the green outline I placed below to represent the artist’s imaginary breezeway is exactly as long as Wayne’s green rectangle showing the extension as an above-ground roof that covers both Morbius’ study and an equally large section . . . of the underground tunnel.
But please remember, guys, I’m just talking about the matte painting!
I’m only suggesting that if the artist had decided to paint a breezeway from the front door to the jeep road to give the house a Frank Lloyd Wright look, it would indeed have to be just as long as the one shown in the painting . . . if it were meant to agree with the one which could have been built on the set.
(But of course, they didn’t build one on the set. I just want to be sure everybody understands that. )
The dramatic perspective of the breezeway in the painting was included for purely aesthetic reasons, to make it look more like this famous house by you-know-who.
Looking at Wayne’s theory, however, the extension can't possibly include the Krell tunnel, because it has a visible "end" to it, and it's obviously no closer to the ground at the near end than it is where it joins the house. Besides, if the extension is NOT level, then neither is that overhang right next to it on the right, going around the house!
Obviously they’re both on the same level plane. Notice that the part of the overhang visible in the far right upper corner is pointing straight out, and it's dead level.
Does that overhang really look angled downward to you, Wayne?
No? Gee, me neither. 
As I've said over and over, the painting includes many details that aren't in the blueprints. In fact, the entire exterior of the house is pure conjecture on the part of the artist. You said yourself that the artist was probably working from limited references, and he had to make decisions about the appearance.
It’s obvious that his decisions were more artistic than architectural, because we see so many ways the painting just does not match the blueprints.
For example the wing of the house on the right is definitely not the right size in proportion to the dome. But it's certainly a better candidate for the study (and the entire living room / dinning room area) than the long and narrow extension!
If the dome is supposed to be the part of the house directly above the surprisingly small Core which has the round ceiling, then the living room and Morbius’ study are both outside the circle, and Morbius’s study branches off from the rectangular living room on the far side.
Like it or not, guys, that clearly does NOT agree with the matte painting's presentation of this "dome shaped" house, and it certainly doesn't agree with the way the extension shoots straight out from the domed section.
How could Morbius’ study connect with the living room which is well outside the dome in the blueprints (and on the set) when the painting portrays it as being attached directly to the dome’s perimeter like the stick on a giant lollipop!
Please note that if the extension is a breezeway over the main entrance, and the wing of the house is the living room / dinning area, then Morbius' study would be on the far right in relation to the front door . . . which DOES agree with the movie set. 
But of course, Gord won't go for that idea because it puts the pool over in the North Forty . . . instead of in the "left-back yard".
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Wayne made the odd statement below as another way to refute my claim that the extension is a breezeway over the front entrance.
| orzel-w wrote: | "Wacky", like expecting to see a shadow on the forecourt from the roof of your hypothetical "breezeway"? Or asking to see that breezeway roof in any scene from the movie?
When either Robby's jeep or the ship's tractor pulls up in front of the house, where the forecourt is, there is no breezeway. |
Oh come on, Wayne, be fair!
I never once suggested that the breezeway was anything other than something the artist added to the painting because he liked the looks of it. So, your passionate declaration that “there is no breezeway” in the painting because it can’t be seen on the set is (. . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . )
Yep! WACKY! Of course, it can’t be seen in the movie!
I'll say it one more time: the breezeway was "made up" by the matte artist, and it's not meant to represent anything on the set OR in the blueprints.
Ditto for the wide overhang that surrounds the house between the first and second floors — as well as the connecting wing on the right between the house and the pool — not to mention the rib-like arches between each of those ugly triangular windows that we know damn well don't exists on the set because during the movie we get to see all the windows from inside the house!
Gentlemen, please! Let’s be scientific about this!
Consider for a moment the fact that the one-and-ONLY reason we've ever thought the house even has a domed roof is because the matte artist decided to put one on it! The blueprints only indicate that the interior of the house above the supporting Core has a ROUND CEILING!
Just to give you a rough idea of just how mistaken we are in thinking the blueprints suggest in anyway whatsoever that the house is really dome-shaped, take a look at this comparison between the rectangular parts of the floor plan and the alleged "dome" which we’ve assumed was above the Core!
~ Click on the jpeg to get a bigger version and read some of the text.
Gentlemen, how could we possibly think that the exterior of the house could be a large dome with a smaller wing off to the right (as the painting shows it), when in fact it’s a large area comprised of two rectangles . . . and a small circular area in one corner!
I mean, just look it! The forecourt is actually bigger than the Core . . . but the painting presents it as a big dome!
I've said it before and I'll say it again: there are more differences between the matte painting and the movie set than there are similarities, despite the clever way Wayne color coded the vegetation in the blueprint to make it match what we see in the painting. (Nice work, by the way. )
The artist may have gotten the rocks and landscaping right, but there’s very little resemblance to the floor plan shown in the blueprint’s and what we’d get if we tried to make a floor plan for that house we see in the matte painting!
Forgive me, guys, but you both keep trying to take actual elements of the set and desperately shoehorn them into the painting by using flawed interpretations.
Come on, guys, give it up! 
You have to look at the actual set and the matte painting as two very different interpretations of the Morbius home.
But if you still aren’t convinced, let’s consider Wayne's suggestion below. Bear in mind that the preproduction plans called for the house to be part of a large cliff that was higher than the house itself. In the movie, the tunnel leading directly into the cliff is consistent with that.
| orzel-w wrote: | | Rather than claim that the matte painting is wrong everywhere it doesn't agree with the way we see the layout, let's see where it does match what the artist was likely given to work with. |
Okay, sure. Let's try that. Here we go.
| Quote: | | First, the chances are very slim that he had even a rough cut of the movie to study relative locations of the house's surroundings. What he probably did have were the house plans, any background paintings he was involved with, and some conceptual sketches. |
Right you are, sir!
Like, for example, these preproduction sketches . . . which clearly show that the house was supposed to be connected directly to a cliff. Gee, I wonder what part of that concept the matte painting artist didn't understand.
Notice that there is indeed a dome indicated in the second drawing . . . and it also has an extension which connects the house to the cliff!
But two important facts argue against the extension in the painting being the house-to-cliff connection. (A) The extension has a clear "end", and (B) it's nowhere near any rock outcroppings (according to Wayne's jpeg with the road added).
Since the artist seems to have known about the planned fusion of the house with the cliff, why did he NOT paint the cliff next to it?
The only possible explanation is that he took broad liberties with the house’s design and flat-out ignored anything he didn’t want to include. That's very odd, of course, since the painting was approved by the Arthur Lonergan, in spite of the way it diverges from the preproduction plans, the sketches, and the blueprints.
As for my attitude towards the painting, if it’s a choice between faulting the artist for leaving out the cliff and making the house completely different from the blueprints, or praising him for creating such a beautiful piece of artwork and giving it a wealth of details from his own imagination, I vote to praise him.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
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Gord Green
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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The one concept you keep not understanding is the basic "front and back" idea.
Your illustration trying to explain this clearly transects the house DIAGONALY not lateraly!
The walls of the house are shown in RED. Who seperates their basicly rectangular home with a 45 degree diagonal line to separate front from back?
Here, from one of your own drawings of the home, it's clear that the proper axis of the house shows the ertrance at the front....the furniture, fixtures etc extending to the back...and...the pool and terrace on the LEFT side, NOT at the back of the house!
Even the blueprint supports this concept of the axis of the house.
All of this discussion completely disregards my original supposition....That the matte painting does not show the front of the house, but the back and that the ENTIRE blueprinted area lies BELOW the domed upper levels cut into rock ledges with the front entrance area in the open side of the cutout.
In short----The domed part is ONLY the upper floors located ABOVE the rectangular lower (ground level at front) part of the residence.
I don't think that the extension in the matte is either a "breezeway" nor an extension over the office. I think it's supposed to represent a structure attached to the upper level of the house resting on top of the rock ledge the upper floors are resting on.
I think the matte painting is very well done too, and only my supposition resolves the issue of the main variances from it and the blueprint making them both correct in many ways.
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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Eadie
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Gentlemen. It is NOT a house as we know it. In the late 1940s to 1950s there was a concept of a house with usable areas,, rooms would change function according to need not a specific use. (we'll eat here today; Not we'll eat in the dining room.) Look it up/ Your previous experiences in today's houses colors your perceptions.
Be cause of this I think that Bud is more probably correct.
By-the-way, WHO made the painting, Arthur Lonergan? Henri Hillinck. Mentor Huebner? Does anyone know?
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Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable.
Last edited by Eadie on Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gord Green
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Joined: 06 Oct 2014
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Well, I think we've sufficiently pummeled this deceased equine animal!
We fundementaly have different points of view on the subject and without restating redundant points there's not much more to be said.
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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