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Forbidden Planet (1956)
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Eadie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The relationship of the house, Krell tunnel and Krell lab:



Larger version available by clicking on picture.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I embedded the large version in the one you posted. Click on the edit button in your post and you'll see how easy it is to do that. Very Happy

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Eadie
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very interesting take on the Krell music:

https://cosmicguitartronics.bandcamp.com/album/ancient-music-of-the-krell
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Eadie
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Kidd wrote:


I was hoping Robby would make an appearance on The Big Bang Theory. He could make Penny dresses, provide Raj with an infinite supply of tequila, and finally give Sheldon someone he could relate to.



Actually he DID appear on the October 30, 2014 episode The Misinterpretation Agitation:



I presume you meant to see Robby interact with the gang as himself!
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Eadie
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earlier we had a lively discourse about the residence of which I'd like to add some observations. They stem from this picture:



On the extension it appears that it has what are eirher clerestory windows or vents across the top. Just what are the block-like objects along the bottom?:



There was also a discussion about the upper floor. According to this blow-up there is no room for the design shown



Any thoughts, ideas or speculations?
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eadie wrote:
There was also a discussion about the upper floor. According to this blow-up there is no room for the design shown:



Any thoughts, ideas or speculations?

You're absolutely right, Eadie, the upper floor seems to be too small for two bedrooms. We know Altaira's bedroom is up there because she goes up the stairs after saying goodnight to Robby —



— and she goes up there again to change clothes before the Id Monster shows up.





But we don't have any reason to assume that Morbius' bedroom is up there, too, and there are portions of the ground floor that are just blank on the blueprints because the camera crew occupied that area in all the shots.

So, perhaps Morbius' private quarters were actually downstairs.


Eadie wrote:
On the extension it appears that it has what are either clerestory windows or vents across the top. Just what are the block-like objects along the bottom?[

As for the wing of the house that faces the pool, there does indeed seem to be some kind of windows high on the wall, but it's hard to tell what they are. In fact, your cropped image almost makes it look like Henri Hillinick painted a rectangular recess in the wall, but I think your theory that it's clerestory windows (a term I had to look up, you big show-off Confused) is probably right.

Another good call, Miss Eadie. Cool

Bill Malone responds to my occasional Facebook questions about once every six months, (Rolling Eyes), but I think I'll ask him if he knows if the original painting still exists and who owns it.

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good questions, Eadie. Here's a few thoughts on them.

1) In the novel it says that Morbius had a small bedchamber near his office (maybe even adjoining it along the unseen fourth wall.). The house may have been built before Alta was born. and so there was only one bedroom on the upper floor that Morbius shared with his wife.

After Alta's birth and the death of his wife, Morbius may have set up that chamber by his office and turned the top floor into Alta's nursery and later her bedroom.

2) Those black objects almost look like tables, perhaps for outdoor dining. More likely they could be air conditioning units or something of the sort.

3) As to the original matte painting, I touched on that a few pages back.


Gord wrote:
Too bad Henri Hillinck isn't around to ask. Alas, he passed away in 1959 after a prolific amount of movie art (he did matte paintings of Skull Island in KING KONG.). Many of his originals are in the possession of his grandson, John Henry O'Connor, and he may own the original mattes from FORBIDDEN PLANET as well.

Here is a picture of Henri Hillinick in his studio.


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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
In the novel it says that Morbius had a small bedchamber near his office (maybe even adjoining it along the unseen fourth wall.). The house may have been built before Alta was born. and so there was only one bedroom on the upper floor that Morbius shared with his wife.

After Alta's birth and the death of his wife, Morbius may have set up that chamber by his office and turned the top floor into Alta's nursery and later her bedroom.

Good Lord, I had those same thoughts when I was composing my previous post, but not quite as well thought out as yours!

For example, the idea that the bedroom of Mr. and Mrs. Morbius was converted into Altaira's nursery — and then later into her bedroom — is absolutely beautiful!

And when Mrs. Morbius dies during childbirth and Edward Morbius becomes a single father who lives in the downstairs bedroom which he and his beloved wife created, this becomes the kind of beautiful "backstory" I envision for this glorious movie!

If only Hollywood realized what a golden opportunity they have to create a great prequel for this beloved classic, we'd be able to enjoy a spectacular film that would take us back to the year 1956 and show us the events that happened before Forbidden Planet! Shocked

Note to Eadie: See the kind of original thinking your posts inspire here at All Sci-Fi? Without you, we'd all just sit around trying to think of something new to say! Sad

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Krel
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eadie wrote:
On the extension it appears that it has what are eirher clerestory windows or vents across the top.

It is very possible that they are intended to be clerestory windows, that was a popular feature in some mid-century homes. I see many homes in my subdivision that were built in the early 60s that have them.

David.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Holy mackerel, I just started out to post a reply to Gord's comment about the black objects by the "wing" he mentioned.

But I got so enthusiastic about some new thoughts on the whole subject of the house that I went hog wild! Hopefully you folks will find this interesting. Very Happy


Gord Green wrote:
Those black objects almost look like tables, perhaps for outdoor dining. More likely they could be air conditioning units or something of the sort.

I think you're right about the two round black objects being something like AC units. They don't look like tables, because they seem too small and too low, and there are no chairs or benches. And if you zoom in on the two images of the house I posted below, you'll notice details not visible in Eadie's image.

Plus, I think outdoor tables would have been placed on the pool patio (which Henri omitted).

However, given that the Morbius home is designed to be so open to the outside, the regular dinning room table is practically outside anyway, with the large front entrance and the pool entrance providing a sunny view of the front and back areas of the house. Very Happy





It's not surprising that Gord and I debated the differences between the painting the blueprints for so long, because the painting has a number of obvious differences when compared to the blueprints.

Notice that in the painting the area upstairs is fairly small. Any rooms up there would have to fit inside the vertical red panels . . . unless the vertical distance from the base of the dome and the red panels is higher than we've thought! Shocked



Hmmm . . . Consider this.

If the area between the base of the dome and the red panels is high enough for the floor of the upstairs area to be on the same level as the base of the dome, then the walls of the upstairs area can extend out a good bit further.

In fact, that makes me wonder if the area inside the red panels might actually be a third floor! Perhaps it's an attic storage area.

The graphic created for the "virtual tour" seems to support the idea that the base of the dome is much larger than the round structure we see in the blueprints, which is actually just the ceiling above area between the main entrance and the pool entrance.



In the picture below from the virtual tour we can see that the stairway is positioned well outside that round ceiling structure. That means the perimeter of the dome is considerably larger than the ceiling structure.

I think the actual circumference of the dome's base would align with the yellow circle I added below.



Notice that I centered the yellow circle on the middle of the ceiling structure, and I lined up the lower side of the circle with the two walls which extend out towards the pool patio. These walls indicate that they're supporting a structural load above them.

Therefore, the base of the dome would align with those wall on the low side, near the pool.

The right side of the yellow circle (just outside the stairway) indicates that part of the dome is supported by the rock outcropping. The smaller outcropping to the left of the main entrance also seems to support the dome.

We all know, of course, that Henri Hillinick didn't include any visible rock outcroppings next to the house, but it's obvious they're on the set. And the preproduction drawings demonstrate that the house is supposed to be joined with a mountain, inside which the Krell lab is embedded.



Having said all this, Eadie, I'm beginning to think the upstairs would indeed have room for two spacious bedrooms and a bathroom!

Also noticed that if the dome is actually the size indicated by the yellow circle, the rest of the floor plan extends out to the left side, just like the "wing" that Henri painted between the house and the pool, although the viewing angle of the painting puts the wing on the right side.

But, as I've suggested before, I think one of the many changes Henri made in the house plan was the position of the pool. He put it close to the end of the wing.



A few months back I modified the screen shot to put the pool behind the house on the left (instead of the right) and to make the wing of the house connect with a mountain, as the preproduction plans indicate.



Back in October of last year I made an attempt to match up my orthographic projection of the house with the blueprints, and it works to some degree if the dome's perimeter is much larger than the circular structure we see in the blueprint.

The version below suggests that the dome is somewhat smaller than the yellow circle drawn onto the virtual tour image, and it also isn't centered on the "core". I now think that the new diagram above with the yellow circle is probably a more accurate depiction of the dome's true size.



Gord will immediately recognize the diagram and the modified matte painting as the one I posted on page 76 of this thread, when I was still certain that the long extension in front of the house was where Henri intended the main entrance to be. Maybe Henri did intend that, but Gord was right when he pointed out several times that it certainly bears no resemblance to what we see on the movie set! Rolling Eyes

However, what does work pretty well in the match-up of the blueprints and the orthographic projection is the way it puts Morbius' study inside the wing that Henri painted between the house and pool. Since it combines the projection with the blueprints, the cliff (which the blueprints include) is shown connected the study as it should be.

This is why I created the version of the painting that has the mountain connected to the study / wing, and the pool relocated behind the house — although I shifted it to the left so it would be more visible. Cool

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you may be correct that there is room above the overhang and below that "dome" structure to accomadate a larger second floor with the circular room above that as a type of attic area.

As to the "air conditioning" there is some argument that the lower open areas had a low power forcefield that kept insects out (But NOT monkeys I guess!) or at least some kind of "bug reppelant". There may have been no insects on Altair 4, but the flowers etc. got pollenated somehow.
In any regard, some kind of air conditioning may have been required to maintain comfort in the home.

I'll have more comments re: the prequel later, but keep in mind the planned but dead "remake" attributed to J Michael Strazinsky (?) was reputed to be a prequel as well.

in any regard....Here's a few interesting things I've found.


FORBIDDEN PLANET as a prequel to ST:TOS.



From THE MONSTER TIMES #17 1977













Half a Robby!

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Eadie
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometime back there was speculation about the lack of insects inside the house. My biology teacher thinks this may be the answer.

In the novel Alta summoned some birds along with the deer, monkeys, and tiger. This is partially confirmed by theses photos:






She says there are a type of tropical and sub-tropical birds called bee-eaters that may be responsible:



What does the gang think?
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morbius may or may not have brought to life the animal kingdom on Altair 4, but the plant life appears to have been indigenous to the planets' biosphere. Therefore there was some kind of system for polennation of the flowering plants. If not insects, then something similar.

The same can be said about the birds. I don't recall any actually being shown in the film, but who knows?

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

______________________________________

Well, we should consider the fact that desert environments don't have the abundance of insects that forests and jungles do, simplly because there's less plant life and water. Also consider that the Morbius estate is an oasis in an otherwise desert region.

But I'm puzzled by the suggestion that Altair 4 might have few-or-no insects just because we don't see insects buzzing around inside the house.

On pleasant days here in North Carolina, I'll open my front and back doors for an hour or so just to air the place out, but I rarely see insects flying around in the house. When they do, they tend to go right on through, in one door and out the other — and that would be easy for the occasional pest in the Morbius house as well.

Besides, if Robby had a special anti-monkey beam, he probably had a fly-swatter ray as well! Laughing



As for the avian wildlife on Altair 4 —


Gord Green wrote:
The same can be said about the birds. I don't recall any actually being shown in the film, but who knows?

— we don't really need to see birds in the movie to know that Altair 4 had them, some of which were created by the Krell machine, unbeknownst to Morbius. Remember the dialog which took place down inside the Krell machine?





"Sometimes the gauges register a little when the buck deer fight in the autumn or when the birds fly over in the spring."

The fact that the gauges registered power usage whenever these animals were visible and active (even though Morbius had no idea why) is the best proof that the Krell machine created the animals, based on Morbius' deep desire for his beloved Altair 4 to be a pleasant and beautiful place for him and his daughter to live.

However, I'm not saying that all life on Altair 4 was created by the Krell machine. We only know for sure that the birds and deer which Morbius mentioned were machine creations, as well as Altaira's pets. But based on the existence of those animals, the Krell machine was obviously able to interpret some of Morbius's strongest subconscious desires and respond to them by enhancing Altaira 4's wildlife.

And that makes me wonder what else it might have done for him (without his conscious knowledge, of course).

For example, suppose there were some unpleasant insects in the area, and both Morbius and Altaira were occasionally annoyed by them when they came into the house. Take this thought one step further and imagine an incident when Altaria was a little girl, and she was stung by an Altairian wasp (for example).

Morbius, the loving father who had desperately wished his lonely little daughter had some pets to play with (and thus caused the pets to be created by the machine), is now troubled by the fact that his child was stung by a wasp.

If Altaira was allergic to the sting of such an insect, the situation would have been life threatening, not just unpleasant!

Following Eadie's suggestion about the bird species who eat insects (and many of them do), Morbius would worry about his daughter's safety, and he would ponder the idea that if there were more birds in the area, they would lower the insect population, thereby making his beloved daughter less likely to be stung again!

If all this supposition sounds far fetched, bear in mind that we know the machine did create flocks of birds that flew over in the spring — not just a few birds to beautify the landscape around the house and keep Altaira happy.

And so, ladies and gentlemen, I think we've found another piece of the puzzle which is part of Altair 4's on-going mystery, thanks to Eadie's original thinking . . . as usual! Cool

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since Morbius mentions "Spring" we can also assume that Altair has seasons. Therefore its' axis has a tilt to it. (Our planet has a tilted axis due to early bombardments in the Earths remote past.)

The planet Altair-4 seems to be in Altairs' "Goldilocks" zone, so the Altarian year may be close to the Earths, probably a bit longer.

The birds mentioned may be constructs, indigenous, or transplants from Earth. If Morbius is correct in saying the animals were brought to Altair-4 from the Earth then any combination of fauna is possible.

Personaly, I think Morbius made the assumption based on his own denial of his influence on the planet from his time in the "Educator".

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