|
ALL SCI-FI The place to “find your people”.
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
Thanks, Gord!
I'm cleaning up the huge 5,100 pixel images from the pages on archive.org and posting them a few at a time in a thread dedicated to the script.
The first five pages alone reveal some remarkable difference between the movie we all love and the original screenplay which Cyril Hume wrote!
Click on this link — Complete Forbidden Planet script from 8/26/1954 — and read what I've posted so far.
You'll be amazing!
So far, Gord, the archive.org jpegs look a bit better than yours because of their initial size, but some pages are better than others, so I'll undoubtedly need your versions in some cases!
I'll determine which ones need to be upgraded to the "Gord Green Version" as I go along.
Here's your page 110 and the archive.org page 110 for comparison.
Gord's version
archive.org's version (Click to see the even sharper version!)
_________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2940 Location: Buffalo, NY
|
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yours does seem to be a bit clearer. My scans seem to be from a different copy, as yours has the handwritten title on the first page and mine does not.
My cover page :
It's interesting too that the cover sheet calls for 107 pages in total while the script actually runs 111 pages! The last three pages are labled '107 continued' and has the wedding scene to end the film.
You will note also that the cover sheet refers to "revisions" being done so an earlier script would be very interesting to read! _________________ There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Maurice Mission Specialist
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 462 Location: 3rd Rock
|
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gord Green wrote: | Yours does seem to be a bit clearer. My scans seem to be from a different copy, as yours has the handwritten title on the first page and mine does not.
My cover page :
It's interesting too that the cover sheet calls for 107 pages in total while the script actually runs 111 pages! The last three pages are labled '107 continued' and has the wedding scene to end the film.
You will note also that the cover sheet refers to "revisions" being done so an earlier script would be very interesting to read! |
Probably there were page revisions done after the 107 page note, or the note-taker missed counting four pages. _________________ * * *
"The absence of limitations is the enemy of art."
― Orson Welles |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gord Green wrote: | It's interesting too that the cover sheet calls for 107 pages in total while the script actually runs 111 pages! The last three pages are labeled '107 continued' and has the wedding scene to end the film.
You will note also that the cover sheet refers to "revisions" being done so an earlier script would be very interesting to read! |
As you said, Gord, the script is actually 111 pages and ends with the wedding scene, but many of the pages near the end have the notation which says "Cont'd" and a lower page number above it.
Just from the little bit I've read so far, this script is packed with dialog and even entire shots that didn't make it into the final film, and I've noticed many places in which the dialog is significantly different from what we hear in the movie. Apparently there were revisions which happened AFTER this screenplay was written!
So, Butch's alleged script that was written before MGM even knew about the concept is not the one we want if we're looking for "early versions" of the screenplay that differ from the one used to make Forbidden Planet.
In a way, THIS is the earlier one!
For example, here's the scene right after lunch when Morbius and the crewmen discuss Robby. The dialog begins just as Morbius tells Robby not to keep walking towards the household disintegrator.
You will NOT believe all the dialog that Hume wrote but which never made it into the movie!
Practically every scene is markedly different from the movie. On the page just before this one, Robby light's a cigar for Doc with the tip of his finger! (A cigar? Doc smokes cigars?! )
If they ever decide to do CGI recreations of those deleted scenes (and even scenes that weren't filmed) this script will be a gold mine! _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:03 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gord Green wrote: | Morbius may or may not have brought to life the animal kingdom on Altair 4, but the plant life appears to have been indigenous to the planets' biosphere. Therefore there was some kind of system for polennation of the flowering plants. If not insects, then something similar.
The same can be said about the birds. I don't recall any actually being shown in the film, but who knows? |
By gum, Gordo, the script proves that you were dead right about that!
On page 20 it actually includes dialogue in the after-lunch conversation which specifically deals with the insects and other native wildlife on Altair-4.
Of course, if the Krell Machine had made modifications to the ecosystem based on Morbius' strong desire to have the planet be a pleasant home for him and his daughter, Morbius would not be aware of it.
However, I was very impressed with your thinking on this subject, Gord, when I discovered that Cyril Hume had these very complex thoughts on the subject of Altair 4's ecosystem. And it's significant that it was Doc who suggested Morbius somehow made a global change to the planet's wildlife — even though he had no idea Morbius might actually be capable of this!
The fact that Doc made this prophetic suggestion — the man who would eventually understand the true nature of the Krell machine — has GOT to be a bit of clever foreshadowing on the part of Cyril Hume.
Wow, my respect for Mr. Hume just keeps going up! _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Krel Guest
|
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I once talked with Steve Rubin at a con. He said that they changed a lot of the dialog from the first cut, it can be heard in the work print. They tightened the dialog, made some of it less 'clunky', and used it to change some aspects of the characters.
If only, they would put the work print on DVD, so you could see the differences.
David. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
I hope you guys are reading through the script and finding interesting difference between it and the movie. I'm enjoy the heck of this.
Here's a few interesting examples just from pages 3 and 4.
Cyril Hume was told that DC stations would be tubes with a transparent half and a rotating opaque half which allowed each man to enter it. The blueprints for the ship's interior were designed that way, and a notation on the blueprint indicates that the tubes would be filled with smoke during deceleration!
The script describes the scene this way.
~ I retyped those last words so they would be easier to read.
Can you imagine being inside a smoke-filled tube with your body restricted with "clamps, buffers, and grip-holders" while the ship decelerated from 16 times the speed of light down to .3895 of light speed — according Adam's dialogue!
It would be like having you body encased in concrete and then dropped off the Empire State Building! Your organs would be ripped loose and you brain would be smashed inside you skull!
Thankfully the "DC capsules" were changed when MGM found out about the transparent tubes in This Island Earth. So, they upgraded the technology and had the men stand on the round plates which turned them into pure energy, thereby causing their bodies to be completely unaffected by the titanic G-forces of acceleration.
The ultimate "seat belts"! Brilliant . . .
However, the script called for the men to come out of the capsules and start moaning and groaning because of what their bodies had gone through. Admittedly, being turned into energy might indeed make a person feel groggy and sick, but now we know that the original idea was that the men's bodies were slammed around inside the "capsules" (tubes).
Notice that the paragraph above also seems to suggest that the changing color of the lights on the bridge was caused by red-shifting light rays within the ship during deceleration. I'm not sure that's actually what Hume meant when he described all the colors, even though the shifting of the colors from blue down to red is consistent with the idea of red-shifted light rays.
It is, at the very least, a nod to the concept that light rays actually are blue-shifted with increasing speeds, and red-shifted with decreasing speeds. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:14 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Krel Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bud, I don't think they meant that the chambers would be smoked filled, but rather made out of smoked plastic. Or only one half would be smoked plastic. Note the "Fixed Smoke" notation. At least that is what I get from it.
David. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
By gum, it does look like "fixed smoke-tubes", so I wondered if I'd made the wrong assumption.
Being a man of faith, I went to the Forbidden Planet Bible — the Cinefantastique article I posted on All Sci-Fi — and found this excerpt in the caption for the picture on page 20 (which is jpeg #17).
So, the clear half allowed us to see those poor actors inside, coughing and whizzing from the smoke!
Thank God they changed it! _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
This first comment is about a minor item that I never quite understood. Adams asked Farman if "the continents checked with the old charts", and Farman says, "Tell you in a minute skipper. It's time for brakes."
I've always thought he was saying "breaks", meaning that some of the men would be relieved for a break! He then says, "Astrogator to crew. Stand by to change flux."
I have no idea what the "flux" he's talking about in that last sentence , but the script indicates that the "brakes" are indeed actual brakes! The ship is being slowed down somehow.
The text at the bottom of the excerpt below says the men grab hold of "the nearest solid thing" as the ship lurches.
My goodness, THAT certainly didn't happen in the movie! But the dialogue that accompanied what Cyril Hume described remained in the final shooting script.
On the next page of the script, the crewmen talk about how it's getting hot inside the ship because of air friction on the hull, and they comment on the sound of the "coolers cutting in."
Wow. So many differences between the script and the movie, including dialogue that was supposed to go along with on-screen actions that weren't filmed.
Here's another example of drastically revised dialogue.
Two of the most well-known blocks of dialogue are delivered by Adams when he addresses the crew, and then by Cooky when he complains about Altair 4 being "another one of those new worlds".
Adams uses an unintentionally funny phrase when he tells the crew that Altair 4's reduced gravity might make them feel "a little higher than usual".
Ironically, Cooky's funny speech comes right after Adams address to the crew — and he's the one who most definitely "felt a little higher than usual".
Both blocks of dialogue were trimmed and improved by the revisions, and I'd really like to know if Cyril Hume did those revisions or somebody else! I hope it was Cyril, but I'm very glad they were done. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
I was very surprised and puzzled by this next discovery!
In the final film, Adams, Farman, and Ostrow are gazing at the main view screen while the ship cruises above Altair 4 in orbit. Here's how the dialog goes.
________________________________
Adams: Jerry, can you make out anything down there?
Farman: I may be missing some individuals structures, but there are no cities, ports, roads, bridges dams — there's just no sign of civilization at all.
________________________________
At that moment, Quinn calls out that they're being radar scanned, and we get the conversation with Morbius. But in the deleted scene, the discussion between the three officers is longer.
________________________________
Adams: Jerry, can you make out anything down there?
Farman: I may be missing some individuals structures, but there are no cities, ports, roads, bridges damns — there's just no sign of civilization at all.
Ostrow: I doubt that little Bellerophon party would build up a civilization in twenty years.
Adams: Did you ever ask yourself why they never sent word back?
Farman: Ah, they might have cracked up landing.
Adams: Or . . . they could have made man's first contact with an alien race.
Ostrow: You think aliens would necessarily be hostile?
Adams: No, they could be anything from archangels to man-eating spiders . . . or a combination of both.
Quinn (suddenly interrupting): Sir, we're being radar scanned!
________________________________
I thought the script would have that expanded version of the dialogue . . . but it doesn't, at least not the interesting part about the why the Bellerophon never sent a message back to Earth — which is weird, because apparently they could have — or the part about how they might have made first contact with aliens (which they sort of DID, indirectly).
Here's an excerpt from the script.
This is Farman's second reference to the charts of the planet. The first time is earlier in the final version of the film. And this brings up an interest point.
Obviously there was a first mission to Altar 4 which made detailed maps of the planet and then took the data back to Earth. I wonder if the Krell machine "radar scanned" both that ship and Bellerophon when the arrived.
The deleted scene is at the 3:00 point in this Youtube video.
__ FORBIDDEN PLANET Outtakes + Deleted Scenes
__________ _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2940 Location: Buffalo, NY
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just a couple of comments on your first observation....
"Brakes" I think was a colloquial expression for "deceleration".
"Change the flux" refers to changing the polar direction of the magnetic flux (the rate of transfer of fluid, particles, or energy across a given surface.) , a part of the hyperdrive used by the starship. _________________ There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
No argument there, Gord! I was just surprised to learn that the on-duty crewmen weren't being told to grab a cup of coffee — they were being told to grab onto something solid and hang on while the ship hit the "brakes"!
As for the line, "Stand by to change flux," since flux means a change in the polarity, wasn't that line a big redundant? If flux means change, how are the men supposed to "change the change"?
Shouldn't line have been, "Stand by to change polarity?" _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2940 Location: Buffalo, NY
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Flux" refers to the energy field regardless of its polarity. To "Change the flux" would mean to change the polarity of the flux.
Imagine it's referring to a flow of a stream of water. "To change the stream" would mean to change the direction of the stream. Flux is a noun, not a verb. _________________ There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17020 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
________________________________
You're right, it's usually used as a noun, but it can be use as verb, too. I looked it up and found this.
flux
noun: flux; plural noun: fluxes
~ the action or process of flowing or flowing out.
"the flux of men and women moving back and forth"
verb:
~ treat (a metal object) with a flux to promote melting.
transitive verb
~ to cause to become fluid.
But obvious was wrong when I said "flux" meant "change". I guess I was thinking that since "flucuation" meant change, "flux" was somehow related.
(As it turns out, they're acquainted with each other, but they aren't related. ) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:20 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|