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Forbidden Planet (1956)
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

That's a stunning galllery of pictures! Very Happy

I'm amazed that the mock-up of the C-57-D is such a good caricature. It was made so tall so that people could walk around under it, but it has the major features, right down to the steps on the stairway!

And based on the close ups of the people sitting in the chair of the quad blaster, is seems to be one of the actual props from the movie!

Did MGM ever promote any other movies with parade floats — in Las Vegaus? They probably did, but these are pretty spectacular. Cool

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Eadie
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those pictures are from the 1956 Helldorado parade in Las Vegas.

This was a concession made by M-G-M as the owners of Leows, Inc.™ owned stock in the casinos. It's how they raised money to make the movies. AND it was M-G-M's eventual downfall as casino owner Kerkor "Kirk" Kerkorian eventually bought-out and auctioned off the studio.


* * * * * * * * * *




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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I did a bit of "Brewsterizing" on the drawings. Nice pieces of artwork. Thanks, Eadie. Very Happy

Do we know what the artwork is for?






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Eadie
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAPPY BIRTHDAY. COMMANDER!

Today Leslie William Nielsen would have been 94 years young.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Happy Birthday Captain Adams !

Born this day 1926

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Thanks, Gord and Eadie! Very Happy

Commander Adams would be please by your tributes.

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Krel
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is copied from the Forbidden Planet the Movie Facebook page:

"The Deceleration Station green glow color was extensively research by consulting with physicists from MIT and CalTech. A green non-metallic organic plasma concept was agreed upon that would protect human life.

Mark Davis performed the composite of the live scene and Matt Yuricich's airbrush matte “glow effect”. Matt Yuricich went to school to learn how to use an airbrush just to do this shot (a technique that the MGM Matte Painting / Newcombe Shot Department didn’t use in the 1950's)."

We really need a comprehensive book on "Forbidden Planet" production.

David.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel….You're preaching to the choir, Brother!

There is SO much more we true fans would like to know ; and so much more material we'd like to see!

Until such a book IS published these 100 plus pages on AllSciFi will have to do.

Here's a few more production photos!



































We could just print up these pages and it would be a FANTASTIC book !

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eadie....The picture you submitted from Heritage looks like a Syd Mead concept drawing for the FP remake.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel wrote:
"The Deceleration Station green glow color was extensively research by consulting with physicists from MIT and CalTech. A green non-metallic organic plasma concept was agreed upon that would protect human life.

I still say the green glow indicates that the men were turned into energy.

That would literally be the only way to prevent inertia from pulverizing their innards, even if their bodies were held rigidly in place. Picture a man encased in concrete and dropped from a three story building. His brain and all his organs would be smash inside his body! Shocked

It's called coup injury.
_________
Here's how it's defined on Wikipedia. Note the specific reference to acceleration and deceleration.
_______________________________________

Coup injury may be caused when, during an impact, the brain undergoes linear acceleration and deceleration forces or rotational forces, causing it to collide with the opposite side of the skull.

The injuries can also be caused solely by acceleration or deceleration in the absence of an impact.

_______________________________________

And if you watch the scene closely you'll see that some parts of their bodies (mostly their arms) aren't actually inside the green glow. They vanish as the glow increases! Frankly the idea that the guys are immersed in some "green non-metallic organic plasma" doesn't make a lick 'a sense. Rolling Eyes

A much better explanation is that they were turned into energy.








From a writer's point of view, I love the fact that story provides a foreshadowing of one aspect of the Krell machine — the ability to turn energy into matter.

Mankind was already on it's way to developing some of the Krell technology!

Eventually we'd learn how to project the energy to another location and then convert it back to matter. That's what the Krell machine did. It's what the Star Trek transporters did, too! And let's not forget the replicators on the Enterprise which created any object on demand. Energy into matter.

With all due respect, folks, I hope nobody will try to claim that the technology aboard the C-57-D couldn't be advanced enough to turn the crew into energy.

Just remember that 50 years ago people wouldn't have believed that everybody in 2020 would be walking around with a handheld computer/camera/phone in their pockets which responded to voice commands, answered questions in a pleasant female voice, and tracked where they were located at all times so it could guide them to any place they ask directions for!

Forbidden Planet is the one movie that didn't underestimate the awesome advances in technology mankind would achieve in the years to come.
Cool
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Krel
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that they may have intended the green organic plasma to act as a cushioning medium. Remember in "UFO" how the Aliens breathed an oxygenated liquid? It was theorized in the show that the liquid was to enable the Aliens to withstand great pressure from constant high acceleration. I remember reading that NASA proposed such a system, probably where "UFO" got the idea from.

The green organic plasma was just a more advanced version.

David.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

An excellent point, David, and it's based on solid science. Cool

I guess the idea was similar to what we saw in The Abyss when Ed Harris filled his lungs with the oxygenated fluid to protect his body from the tremendous pressure during his deep ocean dive.

The problem with applying that idea to acceleration and deceleration is that being surrounded (and even filled) with a fluid wouldn't have any beneficial effect if the ship is going from 16X the speed of light to a sub-light speed, because the forces acting on the person's body are identical to a force of gravity so strong it would squeeze the person into a thin layer of paste!

The G-force created by acceleration that extreme acts on every atom in the body, pulling them all with such force that the muscles, tissues, and bones are all compressed until they're structure is obliterated.

I looked up the question, "How much G force would be caused by accelerating to the speed of light?" Here's the answer.
_________________________________________

If you wanted to go from stationary to the speed of light in a reasonable amount of time, say 1 hour, you'd experience about 8.5k Gs — easily more than enough to kill you.
_________________________________________

8,500 Gs . . . and that just at 1X the speed of light. Acceleration and deceleration have the same effect on an object. The C-57-D was decelerating from 16X the speed of light to a sub-light speed.

That's 136,000 Gs.

Strictly speaking, the ship itself should have been torn apart, but we can assume that since it's breaking the laws of physics which say light speed is impossible, some sort of "structural integrity field" was being applied. They talk about that concept in Star Trek: TNG.

But the human body is so fragile that I still maintain the only way to protect it would be remove all it's mass completely . . . by converting it into energy. And what we see in the movie definitely seems to doing exactly that.

If the DC stations were protecting the crew with a field of energy that simply cancelled inertia, we'd (probably) still be able to see them. However, the images above from that scene in the movie show that their bodies are no longer visible.

Why? Confused

But that explanation of the DC stations just sort of "wishes away" the problem without attempting to apply any legitimate scientific principle to it. We know of no way to cancel inertia. (Yet . . . Wink)

However, since we do know that matter can be turned into energy (like with an atomic bomb), and since science has theorized the possibility of the reverse being possible (not to mention the fact that the story is about an alien machine capable of doing exactly that), why not assume that the DC stations are doing both of those actions in a controlled manner, thus protecting the crew from 136,000 Gs! Cool

And by doing so, the story is foreshadowing mankind's eventual climb to the level of the Krell's technology . . . along with the dangers it poses.

Heck, that just good story telling! Very Happy

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All very good ideas gentlemen. Well thought out and reasoned...but here's a few suggestions for you to consider.

If the matter-energy-matter conversion was the process used it doesn't seem too different from the Krell Machines capabilities: at least in principles of operation. Assuming the Belleraphon used the same DC system they wouldn't find the KM's matter creation so mysterious.

Now....How about...Just as the hyperdrive propulsion system allowed ships to "slip" through hyperspace the DC stations projected a field around the men that put them into a "Null Space" (Null-space definition is - a subspace of a vector space consisting of vectors that under a given linear transformation are mapped onto zero. In short-It does not exist in linear space!).




That is, it allowed them to exist separate from "real" space AND the hyperspace the ship was occupying so any external changes would not affect them as the ship transitioned between the "spaces" of hyperdrive space and normal space.

As shown on film the green field surrounded the men, showing their bodies being engulfed by it...NOT transforming into energy.

Call it a stasis field if you like, but it seemed to be more of a "cocoon" separating them from any external changes.

Inside the field their bodies were protected from external forces because they did not exist in either "spaces".

Therefore they would be protected from inertia, gravity or any other forces. This would have been an extension of the hyperdrive (Quanto-Gravitic Drive) technology.

What do you think?

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
Call it a stasis field if you like, but it seemed to be more of a "cocoon" separating them from any external changes. Inside the field their bodies were protected from external forces. Therefore they would be protected from inertia, gravity or any other forces. This would have been an extension of the hyperdrive (Quanto-Gravitic Drive) technology.

What do you think?

I think it's a great idea! I can accept that, and the concept (theoretical though it may be) makes a great deal of sense!

The green glow we see could well be explained by the fact that the men were "out of phase" with normal space.

I love it! Cool

Great thinking, Professor Green!

Admittedly I still learn towards the turned into energy explanation because of my fondness for the idea that it "foreshadowed" the Krell machine's ability, as I mention earlier. It's yet another example of the brilliant and intricate way the plot of Forbidden Planet is structured.

However, concerning your first statement above, I'm a bit confused.


Gord Green wrote:
If the matter-energy-matter conversion was the process used, it doesn't seem too different from the Krell Machines capabilities: at least in principles of operation. Assuming the Bellerophon used the same DC system, they wouldn't find the KM's matter creation so mysterious.

You seem to be suggesting that the Bellerophon crew knew what the Krell Machine could do. However . . . they did not, and even Morbius didn't find out until the final scenes.

Perhaps you meant that the C-57-D crew realized the similarity between the DC stations "matter/energy" conversion and the Krell machine's ability to create matter out of energy.

If that's what you meant . . . you're absolutely right! In fact, two of the crewmen did indeed realize the similarity. Very Happy

After the brain boost, Dr. Ostrow quickly understood what the machine was doing, and he conveyed that to Commander Adams in just a few words before he died.






Adams then figured out the concept quickly as well, because he too had first-hand experience with the "matter/energy" conversion of the DC stations.





Gentlemen, we've been debating how those two men figured it all out so rapidly, and Gord's suggestion sheds some new light on that puzzle! Very Happy

Since both men were familiar with the "matter/energy" conversion technology, the only thing the Krell Machine did that was actually new to them was the way it received mental commands from the Krell and then projected the desired objects to "any point on the planet" (as Adams put it).

Furthermore, we can take this whole idea a step further and make the obvious suggestion that the Federation was attempting to develop this technology so that it could actually send the energy to another location and then re-materialize the objects back into matter!

In other words, the Federation was working on a prototype that would do what the Krell machine was capable of. And if they succeeded . . . then Star Trek transporters would be the result! Very Happy

Eventually this became the replicators aboard the Enterprise, a simplified version of the Krell machine which provided, on demand, any object that was verbally requested from the ship's computer!

Gord, dare I say it? You've added another strong reason to believe the DC stations foreshadowed the Krell machine's abilities — as well as the notion that the DC stations were, in a very real sense, the technological ancestors of the Star Trek transports!

I think that transporters were probably developed the same way!

First they were capable of converting matter into energy and then back into matter. Eventually the ability to project the energy to another location before re-conversion was perfected.

Star Trek demonstrates that mankind was well on it's way to duplicating the technology of the Krell.

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Krel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
I guess the idea was similar to what we saw in The Abyss when Ed Harris filled his lungs with the oxygenated fluid to protect his body from the tremendous pressure during his deep ocean dive.

The problem with applying that idea to acceleration and deceleration is that being surrounded (and even filled) with a fluid wouldn't have any beneficial effect if the ship is going from 16X the speed of light to a sub-light speed, because the forces acting on the person's body are identical to a force of gravity so strong it would squeeze the person into a thin layer of paste!

The G-force created by acceleration that extreme acts on every atom in the body, pulling them all with such force that the muscles, tissues, and bones are all compressed until they're structure is obliterated.

It has been decades since I read about it, but as I recall the liquid breathing is very hard. You practically have to concentrate on breathing.*

The one for space travel was worse, because they were talking about using a type of oxygenated gel. That, combined with the forces of acceleration meant that the Astronauts would need artificial assistance with breathing.

David.

* In the late 60s (68 or 69), there was a TV show, "The 21st Century", about future developments. In one show they talked about breathing oxygenated fluid. Don't remember much else about it. It has been over 50 years.
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