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Bud Brewster
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013
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Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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My goodness, Butch, one might think you haven't seen this movie in a while! 
Everybody knows the fruit was created the same way the lunch items were created, the day before — not to mention 60 gallons of ancient rocket bourbon, complete with the bottles and the printed labels!
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"Whatever that lunch was," Jerry Farman said, "it was certainly delicious."
"Simply a sum of Robby's synthetics," replies Morbius.
"He's your cook, too?" said Adams.
"Even manufactures the raw materials. One introduces a sample of human food through this small aperture. Down here there's a small built-in chemical laboratory where he analyzes it. Later he can reproduce identical molecules in any shape or quantity."
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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orzel-w
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1876
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | Where are the animals indigenous to Altair 4? We never see a single animal that isn't a Krell machine duplicate of an Earth organism! Even the "buck deer that fight in the Autumn and the birds that fly over in the Spring" are copies of animals from Earth.
This suggests all kinds of interesting ideas. What if the destruction caused during the Krell Massacre was much more devastating than we ever considered. What if all life on Altair 4 was destroyed in that cataclysmic event?
Gentlemen, I submit that the entire surface of the planet was ultimately ravaged by destructive forces which not only killed every living Krell, it also annihilated every living orgasm — including all the specimens brought back from other planets...
The whole planet was sterilized and wiped clean, right down to the bedrock . . .
...
Consider the implications of this. Not only does it explain why no traces of the buildings remain, it also explains why we see no indigenous animals or insects.
The plant life we do see is very limited, but of course we only see a portion of a fairly arid region. However, let's not ignore the possibility that even the plants we see, especially around the Morbius home, are just as artificial as Altaira's pets, along with the buck deer and the migrating birds — which I suggested earlier were created by the machine simply as a way of beautifying the living area of the machine's "master", Morbius.
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Creating pleasant vegetation in the area where Morbius and his daughter live seems like a pretty obvious thing for the obedient machine to do.
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As a result, the surface of the planet was so devastated that no life survived and no remnant of the Krell civilization remained.
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...all the animals we see on Altair 4 are facsimiles of Earth organisms... |
This is a puzzlement to me. If all life was wiped off the surface of the planet and recreated by the Krell machine in response to Morbius' subconscious, why were the animals terrestrial, but the plant life (seemingly) indigenous? Sure, Morbius refers to an Althea frutex (terrestrial) on the patio, which could have been brought along on the Bellerophon, but much of the vegetation appears to be nonterrestrial. If said vegetation also seemed alien to the Bellerophon colonists, and it sprouted after their arrival, what would they make of that? Or even if it was recognizable to the colonists as terrestrial vegetation, but it sprang up after their arrival (fully grown), yet they hadn't planted it...?
It's one thing to have animals of terrestrial origin appearing out of the woods one day, but what did the woods appear out of if there were none when the Bellerophon arrived?
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...or not...
WayneO
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Custer
Space Sector Commander
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 932
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| The vegetation might have been based on data brought back from Earth all those millennia ago, or recreated from the memories of Morbius or his late crewmates. There are plenty of different plants to choose from, and some might well look a bit alien. It could have been "improved" by the Krell machine to be able to deal with the local soil... or it could be unliving fibres animated by the machine. It's not as if we can go there to check things out! |
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Robert (Butch) Day
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1437
Location: Arlington, WA USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | | "(He) even manufactures the raw materials." |
So Eddie Morbius (philologist) and his friends on the Bellerophon had enough fresh, ripened fruit after the trip from Earth to last until he "... tinkered ..." Robby together to synthesize?
And WHY "... synthesize the raw materials"? Is Altair (α Aquilae, α Aql, class A7) and its [possible] retinue of planets made of elements OTHER than the 110 currently known elements?
For fun go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_periodic_tables
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert (Butch) Day wrote: | So Eddie Morbius (philologist) and his friends on the Bellerophon had enough fresh, ripened fruit after the trip from Earth to last until he "... tinkered ..." Robby together to synthesize?
And WHY "... synthesize the raw materials"? Is Altair (α Aquilae, α Aql, class A7) and its [possible] retinue of planets made of elements OTHER than the 110 currently known elements? |
Think again, old friend. The Bellerophon would have brought seeds from Earth to grow food in hydroponics gardens on the ship during the long voyage and (if possible) on the new planet. With seeds you can grow fruit, and with fruit you get more seeds.
And Morbius meant that Robby could take a sample and start from scratch, manufacturing the raw materials and then refining it into the finished product.
Naturally the same elements are present on Altair 4 as anywhere else. But Robby didn't have to go find these "raw materials" if he had a sample. He just made more of the stuff himself, based on the sample.
You're trying to complicate the situation, Butch. 
Wayne and Custer: Excellent points about the plant life, gentlemen. The easiest answer is to assume that any plant life the Bellerophon crew found when they arrived had grown from buried seeds and small remnants of plants that had somehow survived the apocalypse and then slowly spread from humble beginnings during the last 200,000 years.
The fact that so much plant life was growing all around the Morbius home, in the middle of such a barren region, certainly looks odd. Of course, oasis do exist, and that might be why Morbius built his home there.
We can only wonder which came first: the oasis or the house?
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:00 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Custer
Space Sector Commander
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 932
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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I was wondering what that last screenshot reminded me of, with the pool and the futuristic house... the similarities aren't extensive, but I got a Thunderbirds vibe...
Of course, Morbius didn't live on an island, more of an oasis, surrounded by desert rather than ocean... but still... |
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Krel
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | The fact that so much plant life was growing all around the Morbius home, in the middle of such a barren region, certainly looks odd. Of course, oasis do exist, and that might be why Morbius built his home there.
We can only wonder which came first: the oasis or the house? |
In the novel, and in the storyboards, Morbius and Altaira lived on the edge of a 'green' zone. There was to be a drive through a wooded area to morbiius's house. Remember Jerry's line about the landing site being out in the desert. You wouldn't say that if the whole planet were a desert. The house was build where it was, because that is where the entrance to the Krell lab was located.
As for seas would you really recognize an alien sea from orbit? What if the seas were not blue? Altair IV is an Earth-like planet, but that doesn't mean that it is two-thirds water, or that the seas would be as vast as Earth's. The seas could be a number of small ones, like the Great Lakes.
We didn't see any native wildlife because it wasn't necessary to the story. But primary reason you don't see any native wildlife, is because the Tiger killed off all of the native wildlife for miles around the house. 
David. |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Krel wrote: | | We didn't see any native wildlife because it wasn't necessary to the story. But primary reason you don't see any native wildlife, is because the Tiger killed off all of the native wildlife for miles around the house. |
The animals don't eat. Their artificial. And just how long could a real tiger live on lizards and gofers?
Water is water, so oceans are oceans. They don't look different from space just because they're not on Earth — especially if they're on an "Earth-like planet".
Also, they may have said that the house was at the edge of a green zone in the novel, but the movie clearly refutes that.
And don't forget — that same novel said the animals were artificial. So if you don't accept the novel's interpretation of the nature of the animals, you probably shouldn't site it as a reference for where the house was actually located.
On the subject of houses, I got this nice post card from John and Altaira. They're very happy in their new home. Altaira said that after living on a desert planet her whole life, she wanted to live by the ocean for a while.
Gee, look! A private flying saucer at the top of the hill. Lucky couple, these two
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:12 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Krel
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | | The animals don't eat. Their artificial. And just how long could a real tiger live on lizards and gofers? |
I never said that the Tiger ate all of the native life around the house. I said that the Tiger KILLED all the native life around the house. Big difference. Besides, why would the Tiger even look at lizards and gofers, when there are Deer for the taking.
| Bud Brewster wrote: | | Water is water, so oceans are oceans. They don't look different from space just because they're not on Earth — especially if they're on an "Earth-like planet". |
Oh, I have seen photographs of large bodies of water, that you would never think, or guess was water. The water is different because of the geology of the area it is located. Besides, you don't really see the planet clearly enough from space to tell.
| Bud Brewster wrote: | | Also, they may have said that the house was at the edge of a green zone in the novel, but the movie clearly refutes that. |
It does and it doesn't. You only see a couple of angles, there could be a whole forest to the left of the front door and you would never know it. You never saw the complete ride in, so who knows what terrain they rode through.
| Bud Brewster wrote: | | And don't forget — that same novel said the animals were artificial. So if you don't accept the novel's interpretation of the nature of the animals, you probably shouldn't site it as a reference for where the house was actually located. |
I am, and have always been a believer in the artificial origin of the animals ever since I read the novel back in the early 70s. It had been over ten years since I had seen the movie, so the story was new to me. Then when I did finally see the movie again at a convention, I was surprised that the artificial nature of the animals wasn't in the movie.
I have never read the script, so I wonder if the artificial nature of the animals made it to the shooting script, and just ended up on the cutting room floor. Or if it didn't make it to the final script.
It would be great if there had been a comprehensive making of book. But after all this time, with so many of the cast and crew passed on, it will never happen.
David. |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17136
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Good points, one and all, David. I stand corrected.
I don't think the script ever said anything about the animals being artificial, just the novelization. My reason for being so zealous on that point is that it just seems to make so much sense in view of the other elements I've mentioned that support the idea.
I love discussing this movie with someone who gives it the same careful thought and the same high respect that I do!
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:17 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Robert (Butch) Day
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014
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Location: Arlington, WA USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:09 am Post subject: |
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But it's sure FUN to speculate!
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Common Sense ISN'T Common |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | | Also, they may have said that the house was at the edge of a green zone in the novel, but the movie clearly refutes that. |
| Krel wrote: | | It does and it doesn't. You only see a couple of angles, there could be a whole forest to the left of the front door and you would never know it. You never saw the complete ride in, so who knows what terrain they rode through. |
Your mention of the productions sketches reminded me of the ones by Mentor Hueber which appeared in the Cinefantastique article. They showed Robby driving his vehicle through an area with lush vegetation!
Score one for you, David!
And while looking at some screen grabs I made from the movie today, I noticed something interesting about that matte shot of the Morbius home. The artist did a good job of representing the house, the pool, and the area behind the house where the graveyard is located.
Unfortunately, director Fred Wilcox had to cheat a little when he staged the conversation between Morbius and Adams on the terrace, as the two men gaze off in the distance at the graveyard.
The graveyard is located behind the house, near several tall pointed rocks, surrounded by trees with purple foliage. It's well off to the left of the swimming pool, as seen in the matte shot below. If you were looking at it while standing on the terrace, the pool would be directly to your right.
However, when the two men gaze into the distance, they're looking way too far to the right, with the pool off their left shoulder.
To demonstrate this, notice these shots of John coming out onto the terrace and walking up to the edge the pool.
By pasting the shot of the two men over the first picture of John above, we see that both the green wall and the fish ornament are still directly behind them, so the pool would be to their left.
Therefore, they're looking towards the right side of the pool — not at the location of the graveyard relative to the terrace, which would be almost in the opposite direction!
And while I was making these screen grabs I made this nice one of Altaira in the pool, showing a clearer shot of the ladder (on the right) actually under the water — something I'd never noticed before.
Trivia of the most trivial kind, sure — but since it took me 59 years and a 21st Century laptop to notice it, I thought it was interesting.
Less trivial perhaps is this lovely composite shot I whipped up that shows Sheriff John "Quick Draw" Adams gettin' the drop on that nasty old tiger!
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:29 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Custer
Space Sector Commander
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 932
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Some excellent screenshots there... and tigers can get a bit grouchy when one fools around with their friends, can't they?
That "Home of John & Altaira Adams" looks strangely familiar... I wonder if I've seen it somewhere else recently...?  |
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Robert (Butch) Day
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1437
Location: Arlington, WA USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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We've seen this B&W publicity photo of Robby many times:
At eBay is a copy of the color original:
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17136
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I might be wrong, but I think it's a been colorized. Looks like the kind of thing I do all the time, and I'm just an amateur.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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