ALL SCI-FI

[Gord Green]

"The benevolent and noble race of scholars and pacifists, who had evolved beyond war and violence, was no match for the madness from their own subconscious. All Krell had either killed one another within a single day and night or taken their own lives, either in the flesh or by projected proxy.

As the millennia progressed, the last remnant of what was known as the Krell civilization disappeared from the planet’s face, which would later be named Altair IV. The winds of time lay waste any buildings or structures that once proudly stood. But within the planet, the great self-servicing thought-machine continued to run.

It patiently waited for someone to give the next mental command so it could continue its created purpose.

It had a long time to wait....
But that day did come..."
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Bud Brewster]

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Gord, that is exceptionally well written, and it perfectly describes this important element of the story!

Bravo, sir!
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Gord Green]

Did the Bellerophon have "faster-than-light radio?"

Timeline issues may answer the question.:

The film makes it clear that Bellerophon status transmissions from Altair 4 were expected and never occurred. However, the timelines on that don't work right if the Bellerophon had FTL "radio." (That would seem funny, because the C57D would represent newer technology than the Bellerophon, and they had to dismantle the ship in an "attempt" to do that. So that is kind of a plot hole.)

What do I mean about timelines?

Consider. Assume the Bellerophon is as fast as the C57D. Unlikely that a science vessel would be faster that a military vessel.

Year 2300. Bellerophon leaves earth, goes FTL.

Year 2301. Bellerophon arrives at A4 roughly a year later.

Year 2301. Bellerophon sends conventional radio message to Earth; "HERE SAFE. GUESS WHAT WE FOUND."

17 years pass while that radio message goes to Earth.

Year 2318. Earth EXPECTS to get the 1st message back from A4. They do not expect to get a message sooner.

Lets say that the Bellerophon doesn't send the above message. Probably takes the Earth at least 6 months (likely more) before they decide to send the C57D to check on them.

Year 2319. C57D leaves from Earth

Year 2320. C57D arrives at Altair 4. Altaira has had enough time to be born and grow up so all is well.

But if the Bellerophon has FTL radio its all different. Now, "how much faster" the FTL "radio" signal goes is important. Lets say it is as fast as the C57D (16 times c). (Note that the C57D crew expects their FTL radio mashup to work instantly - it does not seem that they think they will send the message to Earth and wait over 2 years for a response.)

But with a 16C radio, we have this:

Year 2300. Bellerophon leaves earth, goes FTL.

Year 2301. Bellerophon arrives at A4 roughly a year later.

Year 2301. Bellerophon sends subspace-radio message to Earth; "HERE SAFE. GUESS WHAT WE FOUND."

One year passes while that FTL radio message goes to Earth.

Year 2302. Earth EXPECTS to get the 1st message back from A4. They do not expect to get a message sooner. Lets say that the Bellerophon doesn't send the above message. Earth may take a year or two before they decide to send a checkup mission. I can't image they would wait 18 years! So...

Year 2304. C57D leaves from Earth.

Year 2305. C57D arrives A4. Altaira would be about 4 years old....But she plainly isn't!

So this doesn't make sense with the movie's stating that the Bellerophon has been out of touch for 20 years.

Therefore the Bellerophon did not have FTL radio!!

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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Bud Brewster]

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Yep, your post comes to the same conclusion as our previous posts on this thread. Good job!

Of course, we could solve some of the other problems by changing our initial assumptions. For example.

"Actual faster-than-light ships had only been developed in recent years. Prior that, they only traveled at lightspeed."

This is actually supported by the opening narration.

" . . . By 2200 AD they had reached the other planets of our solar system. Almost at once there followed the discovery of hyperdrive, through which the speed of light was first attained, and later greatly surpassed."

So, we don't really know the timeline for hyperdrive development, but we do know it started in 2200 at merely lightspeed, and later "greatly surpassed" it.

We have no idea how much "later" this happened. Therefore, let's rethink the whole timeline with this important change in mind.

For starters, your timeline has the Bellerophon leaving Earth in 2300 — one hundred years after the invention of hyperdrive. I'm not sure what you based that on.

However, if it left earlier than that, then your timeline would need to adjust all the dates, and the "trip time" for the Bellerophon will be much longer, too.

Suppose the Bellerophon left in, say, 2250 and traveled at merely lightspeed to reach Altair 4 in 2267, with the crew in suspended animation. As you stated, their "We're here!" message would also travel at lightspeed, so it was not expected until 2284 (seventeen years later).

Under these circumstance, Earth may have spent two years debating whether or not to send a rescue mission in one of the new and faster ships that had been developed in the 34 years since the poor old pokey Bellerophon left Earth.

So, in 2286 (two years after the message from Altair 4 should have arrived), Earth sent one of the new ships which could travel 17 times the speed of light. Their mission was to find out what happened to the Bellerophon, which had left Earth 34 years ago.

This addresses our concern about the idea that Earth waited twenty years to finally send a rescue mission. Instead, they only waited two years while faster ships were designed and built. That seems reasonable.

One year later (2287), the C-57-D arrives at Altair 4. (Lord, I hope I didn't screw up the math somewhere. )

Anyway, the arrival of the C-57-D is twenty years after 2267 — the assumed arrival date of the Bellerophon. And that's consistent with what Adams says to the crew.

"Twenty years ago the spacecraft Bellerophon landed here with prospecting party scientists."

The point of course is this; Earth only recently developed ships fast enough to make it reasonable to send a rescue mission. Prior to that, a rescue ship would arrived at Altair 4 several years later, and spend several years getting back. And they might discover that the Bellerophon crashed or never even arrive!
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Krel]

At the MGM auction the late Wes Shank bought several FP props, one being the 20 inch C-57-D miniature. At one point he put some photographs of the saucer on the FP Facebook Page. Most of the photos are of the miniature with modifications for "The Twilight Zone" and a "Girl From U.N.C.L.E." episode, and one after restoration.



The late Mr. Shank holding his restored saucer.

It would be interesting to know if the ribs on the dome were added to the original dome, or if it was a new fabricated one. I tend to think that they were added to the original dome.

David.

[Bud Brewster]

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I assume the 22" saucer was used in the long shots of the space scenes and the first part of the landing scene.











The 44" saucer was probably used for these closeups.







And the 88" prop was used for the landing scene.





According to the special features on the Blu-ray, the 88" prop was also used for the scene below, with actors who were reduced in size by Rick Moranis. The "making of" special feature is called Honey, I Shrunk the Crew.



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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Krel]

I've read that in the opening space scene, when C-57-D passes through a shadow, that is where they switched from the small to the medium miniature. I don't know if they filmed any space scenes with the large 88 inch miniature.

The 44 & 88 inch miniatures were used for the landing scene, which was filmed in the MGM lake, which had been drained. They hid the switch in miniatures by cutting to a shot of Captain Adams at the helm. They probably only filled the lake when they needed to film scenes with miniature boats and ships, otherwise they have a HUGE pool that would need constant care. The Ice Station Zebra station scenes in the movie were filmed in (on?) the drained lake

Anyone know the name of MGM's lake?

David.

[Bud Brewster]

[Krel]

[Gord Green]

The lake was also used in BEN HUR for the Roman galley sequence were Hur rescued the Consul Arrias.
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Gord Green]

As you can see by the studios order the "lake" was designated
as the "Tank".



By the way, I've come across a bunch of new documents , photos and blueprints from FP that have not been shown on this thread and I will be posting over the next few days.


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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Gord Green]

Here are a few examples :

















Much more to come!



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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Morbius]

Great find.

[Krel]

Its interesting that MGM didn't name their tank. Fox named their tank Sersen Lake after Fred Sersen Fox's head of special effects. For "Cleopatra" Fox constructed a larger tank on the Fox Malibu Ranch, which they named Lake Sersen. The tank on the Fox lot was demolished after the construction of the Lake Sersen tank.

Disney rented Sersen Lake for "20,00 Leagues Under the Sea" for model scenes on the surface, and for the Nautilus deck scenes. The giant squid attack was filmed in a soundstage.

David.

[Bud Brewster]