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orzel-w Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1876
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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_________________ ...or not...
WayneO
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Andrew Kidd Planetary Explorer
Joined: 20 Feb 2016 Posts: 43
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I read somewhere that those pictures where staged by Life Magazine as a photo shot on the set to promote the movie.
IMDB has this trivia item about another promo that was released at the time of the film.
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In 1951 Marvin Fisher (music) and Roy Alfred (lyrics) wrote a song called "Destination Moon" which was recorded by Nat "King" Cole, Dinah Washington, the Ames Brothers, Lester Young and others. The lyrics referenced space travel and were clearly inspired by the movie - "Come and take a trip in my rocket ship/We'll have a lovely afternoon/Kiss the world goodbye and away we fly/Destination Moon" - but Fisher's melody had no connection to the music Leith Stevens composed for the film.
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______ Nat King Cole - Destination Moon (1950)
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Eadie Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 1695
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: |
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It was LIFE magazine's January 1, 1950 issue. Here are some behind the scene pictures from the same issue. (The LIFE magazine site I got these from had NONE of the text.)
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:24 am Post subject: |
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That is an astounding gallery of behind-the-scenes images from this remarkable movie! Eadie, we can't thank you enough for these!
I think I'll post those on the Classic Horror Film Board . . . and give YOU full credit, of course!
I haven't found the site you acquired your photos from yet, but I found one that had a few more like them.
_________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Enjoy the trail!
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____________ Destination Moon (1950) - trailer
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:11 pm Post subject: Starlog — The Making of Destination Moon by Robert Heinlei |
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Enjoy this exceptional Starlog article from issue 6.
Click on each page here to see a large, easy-to-read version you can zoom in on. Click on the large version again, and then zoom in as close as you want!
_________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Seeing as the Luna is a belly lander, the crew is going to be in an awkward position at landing. Assuming the port is at the top position on the hull at landing, then the crew is going to be hanging sideways from what will then be the ceiling.
David. |
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orzel-w Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1876
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Krel wrote: | Seeing as the Luna is a belly lander... |
Aw, are you gonna make me read the article to see where that tidbit comes from? Since the Luna landed on its tail on the moon, I'm guessing that a belly landing occurs on its return to Earth? (Maybe it was mentioned in the movie itself.) That would explain the large fins and the one tail-landing leg in place of a fourth fin.
(Later that day...) Okay, I read the whole article and didn't find any mention of a belly landing. But it does make sense in the movie's context from the design of the rocket, as mentioned above.
I did find one error, however. A caption on "page 20" says, "Prone in accelerator couches...". They're lying supine, not prone.
Also, the "rare original art" referred to in the joint caption is merely a tracing of the film frame shown with it. _________________ ...or not...
WayneO
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Last edited by orzel-w on Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, my calling the Luna a belly lander comes from the design, and the fact that they barely had enough fuel for the return trip, and they could only do that by stripping the Luna of everything they could.
If the Luna was suppose to land on it's tale on the return trip, then it wouldn't have needed wings or the fourth leg, they could have gotten away with only three fins, and saved weight. The fourth leg was a retractable strut. If the Luna was intended to land on it's tail on Earth, then there would have been no need to make the strut retractable. The extend/retract machinery only added weight. BUT! If the Luna was intended to land on her belly on the return trip, then it makes sense to have the strut retractable. That way the strut could act as a landing skid, and hopefully minimize the damage to the rocket.
So, what does everybody think of my reasoning?
David. |
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orzel-w Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1876
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Krel wrote: | Seeing as the Luna is a belly lander, the crew is going to be in an awkward position at landing. Assuming the port is at the top position on the hull at landing, then the crew is going to be hanging sideways from what will then be the ceiling. |
Unless the couches were depicted as being able to swivel, although from their arrangement I don't see how that would be accomplished. I haven't seen the movie in a long time, so I don't recall. However, this thread did motivate me to order myself a DVD of it. _________________ ...or not...
WayneO
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I'm certainly glad you're adding Destination Moon to your library, Wayne, and in the meantime you can use this fine copy on YouTube (shown at the bottom of this post) to refresh your memory concerning the design of the Luna's interior.
I agree with Krell's reasoning above in some respects, although I'm not sure the retractable strut would do anything during a belly landing except cause the tail to be higher than the nose, thus causing the nose to dig into the ground . . . with disastrous results!
Besides, the three fins in the rear couldn't possibly support the Luna in horizontal flight, and the control room was clearly designed for a ship that is upright whenever gravity is affecting the crew, or when the ship is resting on its tail.
I think the lack of the fourth fin is absolutely pointless, and I've always been annoyed by the idea that a small fold-down support in place of the fourth fin served any useful purpose. All it did was make it entirely possible for the ship fall over after it landed on the Moon!
I suppose the support was lighter than a fourth fin, but even if they retracted it after take-off to streamline the ship for flight through the atmosphere, it should be been deployed again during the landing approach.
But no! They don't even deploy the damn thing until AFTER the ship has landed! What was the reason for that?
Watch the scene in the video below at the 1:00:20 mark and you'll see that they make a point of stating that after the ship has landed on the Moon, the fold-down support is deployed. After the landing, General Thayer gives an order which sounds like "Jacks down", and we here a whirring noise, like a motor. Then he says, "Jacks are down. Cut out your gyros."
So, the ship is being held upright by gyros until the fold-down support is deployed. But why not just have it deployed before it ever lands? Why risk having the ship tip over?
Amazingly enough, they even show the ship rock back and forth during that moment, with the view of the Moon through the porthole for reference so we can see the horizon remain level while the ship tilts left and then right before settling down!
Therefore, not only is the Luna not designed to fly horizontally and make a belly landing, it isn't even designed very well for a stable tail landing!
However, I read somewhere that Bonestell's proposed design for the Luna was actually the one shown below, but Pal didn't like the wings because he wanted to emphasize the lack of air in space.
The design was used not long after Destination Moon for the rocket in Flight to Mars. But I think what Bonestell really wanted for the Luna was the design shown in his magnificent painting below.
Notice that it has four fins, large wings for horizontal flight, and extra fold-out supports on the outer edges of the fins to widen the ship's base and make it more stable on the lunar surface!
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__________________ Destination Moon (1950)
___________ _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sat May 20, 2023 2:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Bud Brewster wrote: | I agree with Krell's reasoning above in some respects, although I'm not sure the retractable strut would do anything during a belly landing except cause the tail to be higher than the nose, thus causing the nose to dig into the ground . . . with disastrous results! |
Consider that they never show the strut side of the Luna, you only see the strut sticking out from the unseen side. I don't think that the strut retracted into the Luna's hull, but rather up along side the hull, there it would be in a good position to act as a skid. From the view of the Luna under construction, it doesn't look like there would be space inside the hull for the strut to retract into. The strut has a triangular cross section (crude streamlining for launch?), but I don't know if the would be better than a flat one for landing on. Edge on flat, which would be better?
As for the configuration of the interior, it was designed to be vertical on launch and on the moon. In zero-G it wouldn't matter, and the cabin would only be horizontal for a short time, for the final landing.
Consider also, that the wings have large flaps. Although I am not sure if those wings would really be large enough to support an unpowered glide.
See, you don't need to punch holes in my arguments. I'm perfectly capable of doing that on my own!
Finally, the Luna didn't have the fuel capacity to do a vertical landing on return. As I wrote, the Luna barely had enough fuel for the return journey, and it was only after completely stripping the rocket of everything that could possibly be removed from it.
The Luna was more of a proof-of-concept design, intended for just one trip.
I have to admit that I haven't seen the movie in years, but there is a photograph (publicity photo?) of the Luna above the Moon, tail down for landing, and the strut is extended. I just don't remember if that is a scene in the movie.
Would gyroscopes really be able to keep an off balance rocket upright until the fourth leg could be extended? I really am curious about that.
David. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17170 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I made this two screen grabs from the Youtube video a moment ago. Great picture quality, eh?
We see the ship during the approach in these two brief scenes, only ten seconds apart, at 57:30 and 57:40. The ship is slowing turning around so that the rocket engine can slow it down for the landing.
As you said, Krel, the side with the fold-down strut is never shown, either in space or on the Moon.
But if the fold-down strut is already in position in that second shot, I'm sure part of it would be visible. After all, it has to provide the same amount of support as the missing fourth fin, so the strut would stick out as far as a fin would on that opposite side. Right?
If it DID have a fourth fin, it would look like this.
]
I'm pretty sure that after we see the ship rock a little after it lands and then General Thayer says, "Jacks are down. Cut your gyros," he's referring to the deployment of the fold down strut. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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orzel-w Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1876
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Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Krel wrote: | Would gyroscopes really be able to keep an off balance rocket upright until the fourth leg could be extended? I really am curious about that. |
The gyros (not the Greek sandwich kind here) probably didn't have to do that much work; just extra insurance. If the weight of the hull and its contents were evenly distributed with respect to the plane of the "horizontal" fins/wings and the ground were perfectly level, the weight of the third fin itself would tend to keep its landing pad on the ground. The support strut could then be deployed for safety.
The problems arise if the ground is slightly higher under the third fin, consequently tilting the hull slightly toward the support strut side before the strut is deployed. Then it's handy to have the gyro insurance. _________________ ...or not...
WayneO
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