ALL SCI-FI Forum Index ALL SCI-FI
The place to “find your people”.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms (1953)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Sci-Fi Movies and Serials from 1950 to 1969
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Phantom
Solar Explorer


Joined: 06 Sep 2015
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:53 pm    Post subject: Puppets and Personal Memories Reply with quote

Harryhausen's hand puppet that sank a ship. I don't remember why he used it. It must have been some technical problem. Until he revealed the trick, I don't think anyone who ever saw the movie spotted it.



The single image in the film that is not up to Harryhausen's standards. Ocean water at that depth would be almost pitch black. The shot is too clear to hide the fact that the diving bell is a model.



New York City is the greatest city in the world. These two images of NYC take my breath away. No matter how many times I watch the movie, I have to pause at this point and feast my eyes on images of NYC that no longer exist.



Times Square. My parents took me to NYC for the first time when I was nine years old. I still remember the waterfall on top of a building, the man blowing smoke rings on another and a poster of Forbidden Planet that must have been five stories tall.



The fiery conclusion. I was actually able to walk on the Cyclone during a film shoot. I tried to walk up the first incline but it was so steep I didn't get to the half way point.



The Beast was given the most spectacular death scene of all his creations.


_________________
What Is Essential Is Invisible
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Thinking Outside the "Plot"!
________________________________

~ A Question for the Members: If there was ONE dinosaur frozen in the Arctic ice, could there others?

~ My Theory: Well, probably not under the North Polar cap, because there's no land beneath it, so the ice is constantly moving towards the perimeter of the ice cap and breaking off into ice bergs.

The Antarctic is doing that too — but mostly around the edges because of the land mass beneath the South Pole. The Antarctic land mass has deep valleys that might be filled with ice which hasn't moved in millions of years! Shocked






This is what the Antarctic land mass looks like when all the ice is chipped away to make a few million Margaritas!





And scientist have determined that the South Pole's land mass was once subtropical, with a thriving ecosystem! Cool

That means it could actually contain "The Land Unknown" . . . but in a frozen state, rather than a hidden valley with a warm climate — the way the 1957 movie portrays it.
Very Happy
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Here's another great video from Lewis Schoenbrun with colorized FX scenes. Very enjoyable! Very Happy


___ BEAST FROM 20,000 FATHOMS Visual Effects - Colorized


___________

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri May 13, 2022 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
. . . scientist have determined that the South Pole's land mass was once subtropical, with a thriving ecosystem! Cool

That means it could actually contain "The Land Unknown" . . . but in a frozen state, rather than a hidden valley with a warm climate — the way the 1957 movie portrays it.
Very Happy

Well, now . . . don't that just inspire some interestin' ideas? Very Happy

Gentlemen, let's be quasi-scientific about this. The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms established that a dinosaur could be frozen in the Arctic ice and the be thawed and revived by an atomic bomb.

The concept is questionable, but let's accept it for now and expand on it, just for fun. Very Happy

If the Antarctic region once was "subtropical, with a thriving ecosystem", then it might contain a treasure trove of preserved prehistoric life, deep below the ancient layers of ice!

Suppose a large and well-equipped international team of scientists use an advanced sonar devices to discover the remains of a vast ecosystem, frozen deep in the Antarctic region!






The images they get on their screens are like grainy monochromatic aerial views of a deep valley. They identify what appears to the bodies of large dinosaurs in open areas between prehistoric forests.

The scientists theorize that something similar to the frozen mammoths found in Siberia has occurred, but on a much larger scale in the hidden valley they've found beneath the Antarctic ice.






Hoping to preserve this important discovery, the scientist use a new advanced device — a "thermal drill" — which uses intense heat to melt down through the ice while pumping the water back up to the surface through a large hose.

While this is taking place, the teams' engineers erect a structure above the deepening ice shaft which supports a cage and a miles-long cable, which will serve as an elevator to lower the investigative team down into the cylindrical shaft being created by the "thermal drill".

But the expedition members are astounded when the thermal drill suddenly breaks though into an open area, miles below the surface! Shocked

Warm air rushes up from the deep shaft they've drilled in the ice. The obvious explanation for this is that a vast ice cavern exists below the Antarctic ice — not the frozen remains of a prehistoric ecosystem!

The expedition members descend into the ice shaft and discover a Lost World of prehistoric creatures, sheltered from the outside world by a layer of ice several miles thick.






Explaining the light and warmth will require an exercise in imagination . . . but that's what sci-fi fans do best, so I'm sure you folks will offer fascinating suggestions! Cool
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri May 13, 2022 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnnybear
Mission Specialist


Joined: 15 Jun 2016
Posts: 442

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody else here feel that Ray Bradbury might have been the true creator of Godzilla? Very strange that the Redrosaurus appeared in 1953 and Gojira in 54 with a similar back story and aggressive nature! Was this ever discussed or did Ray not want a court case?
JB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Your suspicions are correct, sir! Very Happy

Here's what the site called Wikizilla says about the "Beast" and "Godzilla" connection.
________________________________

Though The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms had not yet been released in Japan when Toho producer Tomoyuki Tanaka came up with the idea for Godzilla, he was certainly aware of its success in the States, titling his initial story proposal The Giant Monster from 20,000 Miles Under the Sea.

Shigeru Kayama's treatment included a scene where Godzilla attacked a lighthouse, although Ishiro Honda and Takeo Murata removed it in their revisions.

________________________________

Bradbury and Harryhausen were lifelong friends. Here's what Wikipedia says on this subject in the articles for both the film and the short story by Ray Bradbury.
________________________________

The film's stop-motion animation special effects are by Ray Harryhausen. Its screenplay is based on Ray Bradbury's 1951 short story The Fog Horn, specifically the scene where a lighthouse is destroyed by the title character.

The original title of Bradbury's story was The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms. It was published in The Saturday Evening Post. Meanwhile, a film with a similar theme of a prehistoric sea monster was being shot under the working title of Monster from Beneath the Sea.

Later the producers, who wished to capitalize on Bradbury's reputation and popularity, bought the rights to Bradbury's story and changed their film's title. Bradbury then changed the title of his story to The Fog Horn. The monster of the film was based on the illustration of The Saturday Evening Post.

Bradbury says that the idea for the story came from seeing the ruins of a demolished roller coaster on a Los Angeles-area beach. The ruins suggested a dinosaur skeleton. He credits this story with earning him the attention of John Huston, who engaged Bradbury to write the screenplay for the 1956 film version of Moby Dick.

________________________________

The bottom line here is that Bradbury's story came first, his friend Ray Harryhausen was inspired by it and made The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, and the good folks in Tokyo were influenced by that movie's success during the production of Godzilla!

Unfortunately they weren't influenced by the spectacular design of the Rhedosaurus. They're idea of a giant monster was this goofy thing! Rolling Eyes

I hate it . . .






Hell's bells, I sculpted better monsters than that out of clay when I was a kid! And I even animated them! Shocked

Go to the 3:55 mark in the video below to see what I mean.




_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri May 13, 2022 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I don't know why I never thought of this before! Confused

If a dinosaur became frozen in ice, it would most likely be the descendant of several aquatic dinosaurs which were trapped in a large lake in Antarctica when it's connection with the ocean was blocked by glacial movement and it became landlocked.

They and many other aquatic species would survive well after the extinction event, but as Antarctic grew colder the lake would eventually freeze, encasing the dinosaurs in the ice.

There actually IS a large lake under the Antarctic ice which measures 250 km (160 mi) long by 50 km (30 mi) wide — so the idea that aquatic dinosaurs are frozen somewhere in Antarctica would seem to be remotely possible.




_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri May 13, 2022 7:06 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Here's a new slant on the idea of frozen dinosaurs at the South Pole. I learned this today from NewScientist.
________________________________

Hydrogen sulphide gas can induce “suspended animation” in mice and may one day help preserve organ function during intensive surgery, say researchers.

The sewer gas, with its distinctive rotten-egg smell, put the mice into a hibernation-like state – reducing their heart rate, breathing and body temperature – while keeping their blood pressure normal, the researchers found.

________________________________

Please note that this isn't just an anesthetic which induces sleep, like the gas used during surgery. It's a true form of "suspended animation" — although an organism couldn't survive in this state for long periods of time.

However (and here's the good part) I discovered that hydrogen sulfide (H2S) occurs naturally in crude petroleum, natural gas, volcanic gases, and hot springs.

So, does Antarctica have a source of hydrogen sulfide gas that might preserve frozen dinosaurs? You bet your ankylosaurus it does! Here's what Nasa.gov says. Very Happy
________________________________

While the exact number of volcanoes in Antarctica is unknown, a recent study found 138 volcanoes in West Antarctica alone.
________________________________

So, we've got an ice-bound continent with hidden volcanoes which was once home to many dinosaur species before the continent moved south and became cold.

We know that the ice is incredible deep, accord to the National Science Foundation.
________________________________

At its thickest point the ice sheet is 4,776 meters deep (which is almost 3 miles). It averages 2,160 meters thick, making Antarctica the highest continent.
________________________________



Therefore, I'm suggesting that perhaps there's a large cavern somewhere in the ice which is filled with hydrogen sulfide because of nearby volcanic activity, and the cavern contains one-or-more dinosaurs preserved in a state of suspended animation.

Guys, I'm just hypothesizing something interesting (but not very likely) that would be similar to (but much MORE likely than) the frozen rhedosaurus being thawed out and resurrected by an atomic bomb. Very Happy




_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri May 13, 2022 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3401
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to the articulated model of the beast used for the stop~motion animated scenes, Ray also constructed a 7-inch hand puppet of the head and neck section of the creature used for close-ups.

Ray was never happy about using this glove puppet, as it was impossible to achieve a realistic effect with it.

Same thing was done on The Land of the Lost. The series would have stop~motion scenes with their dinosaurs, and then for close-ups a puppet head would be used.

Most of the miniature props were either specifically made by Ray or purchased from toy shops.

The task of instilling pathos into a creature that was, after all, an innocent victim of circumstances was something that Ray said he had set himself as something to convey to the audience from the outset.

Ray felt that without the pathos that the beast would merely be a two-dimensional character that just destroys. There would be no content to the movie; no sympathy for the beast.

Whenever possible, Ray would attempt to place some element of human dignity into his animated characters.

Well Ray certainly achieved this emotional aspect with a number of his creations. Time and again I've read how saddened people were over the fate of the beast, or the Ymir, or one of his other creations that were pawns to situations they were never intentionally a part of but were forced into. They would then fight for their very survival against things they could not possibly understand.

Ray completed all the animation for the movie within five months.

Ray found this movie an excellent opportunity for learning and showing he could handle such an assignment.

He also felt validated that he had managed to prove that a feature film with dimensional animation could be produced on a very modest budget.

Warner Brothers spent $200,000 on a huge publicity campaign for the movie which opened on June 1, 1953. The movie was one of the big hits at the box office that year.

Ray regretted that he never knew what Willis O'Brien had thought of the picture.

Harryhausen had changed forever the method of using model animation, whereas Obie continued to design projects that would require thirty-man teams.

So Ray doing the animation by himself was able to keep costs down on economical budgets. I can see why he was proud of this achievement.

I did wonder though if Ray could have taken on an apprentice in his later movies, perhaps the labor intensive animation wouldn't have taken as many months as when Ray was by himself. The movie could have been released earlier.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
I did wonder though if Ray could have taken on an apprentice in his later movies, perhaps the labor intensive animation wouldn't have taken as many months as when Ray was by himself. The movie could have been released earlier.

I completely agree, Pow.

I've always wished that early in Ray's career he had done what O'Brien did — take a promising young artist under his wing and work with him. O'Brien did this with Ray and Pete Peterson when they made Might Joe Young.

For some reason, Ray never did that. David Allen might not have wanted to devote all his time to stop motion. And perhaps the young Jim Danforth's tempermantal personality made him difficult to work with until years later on Rays last film (Clash of the Titans).

The Wikipedia article on Ray says, " . . .he hired protégé model animators Steve Archer and two-time Oscar-nominated Jim Danforth to assist with major animation sequences."

But when we consider the fact that even a total amateur like me, as mere teenager, managed to do a few brief-but-amusing 8mm movies with little clay models, it seems likely there were dozens of young guys who had the talent and the temperament to become serious apprentices to Ray if they'd been offered such a golden opportunity!

~ On a semi-related note, here's another "thawed-out dinosaur on the rampage" feature that should be added this thread.

You'll notice that in this, the fifth cartoon in the series, Superman mostly just "leaps" from place to place, rather than fly — although he does appear to fly briefly in a few quick shots. Very Happy


___________Superman - The Arctic Giant (1942


__________


The closeup of the Beast's head shown at the bottom of the three images below (from the ship-sinking scene) might be Ray's hand-puppet or it might be the model, but it bears a slight resemblance to the overly cartoonish Arctic Monster . . . which in turn bears a strong resemblance to Godzilla, even in the fine painting Jim Peavy did for the cover of Wonder magazine, the only time Godzilla looks good (in my opinion). Very Happy


___________




_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri May 13, 2022 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I did some research today to find out if there was any dinosaur that resembled the rhedosaurus.

Apparently there isn't. Ray's great design is completely original. But one of these days they might find the fossilized remains of a rhedosaurs — and maybe they'll even discover something that looks like a dinosaur I sketched back in 1977, a prehistoric beast with six limbs!

I call it a Centaursaurus . . . for the obvious reason. Cool



Since two-legged animals are bipeds and a four-legged animals are quadrupeds, then SIX-legged animals are . . .

Okay, I have no idea. Rolling Eyes I tried to find the answer on line, but I struck out. Confused

But I did learn about an impressive prehistory beast called the Sarcosuchus, the largest crocodile that ever live!

Impressive critter! Enjoy the videos._


____ THE BIGGEST CROCODILE ATE DINOSAURS!!!


__________



Sarcosuchus: the Dinosaur Killing Crocodile | Deadly Dinosaurs | Earth Unplugged


__________

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri May 13, 2022 7:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3401
Location: New York

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, those pictures you found, Bud, are wild!

The late Bill Warren in his interesting book Keep Watching the Skies! found the Beast's design to be "unimaginative and cumbersome."

"The overly-large scales, the clumsy feet and rubbery legs make the rhedosaurus look all too much like a model, but a great deal of this is easily overlooked in the vigor of Harryhausen's animation.

~ I've always enjoyed the creatures' appearance.

"When the film was completed, Mutual Films which produced it,took it to RKO. But RKO, then headed by Howard Hughes, just wasn't interested. Warner Brothers., wanting to get into the science fiction field, was interested and bought the $200,000 picture for $400,000.

Warners decided on a fast playoff for Beast, and designed a sensationalistic ad campaign . An amount about equal to the production cost of the film was spent on promotion.
The film brought in at least $1.5 million, and perhaps as much as $5 million, making it one of the largest grossers of 1953.

The lesson was not lost on Warner Brothers. They began production soon on Them!, which would follow the same promotional campaign that had been used on Beast, with very similar advertising artwork."

~ Interesting, So the success of Beast essentially green lit the production of another marvelous sci-fi classic movie with Them! I still contend that Ray should have animated the gigantic ants in Them!
The large ant animatronic props have not dated particularly well over the years.

The scene tense and eerie scene where James Arness and company explore the ant colony is ably supported by the dead bodies of the ants which are practical props. And the scene where the dying ant lunges at the investigative party also is terrific, again, a practical prop is utilized.

I can only assume that the executives at Warner Brothers did not feel that the stop-motion animation from Beast was not required for Them! Cost issues, time issues? Who can say? But studion executives are infamous for not comprehending why their own movies are a success or flop.

"As it is, the atmospheric, intelligent direction and vigorous, exciting animation overcome the talky script to create a lively addition to the small list of good monster-on-the-loose-films."

~ I have to disagree with Mr. Warren here. I never found the picture as verbose. The dialogue quickly moved the film right along and was relevant to the plot. Nothing was superfluous at all. Even the growing attraction between the leads was not overdone.

I still find this a highly entertaining movie with no fat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Puppets and Personal Memories Reply with quote

Phantom wrote:
The single image in the film that is not up to Harryhausen's standards. Ocean water at that depth would be almost pitch black. The shot is too clear to hide the fact that the diving bell is a model.



Well, to fair to Ray (and all filmmakers), they can't very well present a scene in total darkness just because that's the way it would look in reality! Laughing

Movies with scenes inside caves and mine shafts have the same problem. Having the action lit by bouncing flashlight beams is dull and annoying, so they provide light for the scenes which wouldn't really be there. It's just requirement for the type of media that's telling the story; visual.

Therefore . . . let there be light!
Very Happy
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri May 13, 2022 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3401
Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The title for this wonderful movie is, of course, scientifically inaccurate.

The Beast is supposed to come from 20,000 fathoms beneath the ocean. A fathom is a measure of nautical depth which is six-feet.

20,000 fathoms would equal 22.7-miles beneath the ocean.

The Arctic Ocean never gets deeper than 3.4-miles.

The Mariana Trench which is the deepest part of any ocean, the Pacific, is only 6.9-miles.

Dramatic title though for a movie.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17020
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

__________________________________________________

Quite true, Mike! Very Happy

Furthermore, the Beast came to New York from the frozen Arctic, so a more accurate title would be —






But that's not really where the Beast originated, so a still more accurate title would be —





All-in-all, I'd saw this movie has one of the most inaccurate titles in film history! Shocked
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Sci-Fi Movies and Serials from 1950 to 1969 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group