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Lost In Space (1965)
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel wrote:
Correct Bud, in fact I can make, what I think is a strong case that the new one isn't really LIS! But I'm not sure this is the place to make it.

Please feel free to make your case on this thread OR the one for the new show at the link below. Very Happy

http://www.allsci-fi.com/viewtopic.php?t=2536&start=30

Heck, make all the comments you want on BOTH threads for that matter! Fans of the original LIS will want to hear your opinions right here, and fans of the new one will enjoy them on the other thread.

As you can see from Gord's comment, we should feel free to express our differing opinions (in a respectful manner, of course).
Cool
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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
Interesting that both the Lost In Space reboot as well as Battlestar Galactica reboot are both vastly superior to the original versions.

That is a matter of opinion!
JB
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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel wrote:
Pow wrote:
Interesting that both the Lost In Space reboot as well as Battlestar Galactica reboot are both vastly superior to the original versions.

WRONG! Just the opposite.

David.

Agreed!
JB
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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
Just to clarify, you think the new version of Lost in Space is NOT far better than the old Irwin Allen series? Confused

Just askin', David.

A lot of television series shows these days have many episodes where nothing really happens! The old LIS, Trek, Galactica, all had stories which had a beginning a middle and an end with a guest star or stars and a close to the episode in question! Nowadays it's all serial minded with no real end, not even a cliff hanger to draw us in. It just ends with no real impact!!! Even at the end of the series we are left wondering what happened or was that it?
JB
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Krel
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I debated where to put this, but because this is where I commuted the offense. I decided to put it here, because I have to apolgise to Pow. In my reply I meant to put a laughing emoji in my post, and I forgot. This gave the impression that I thought his opinion was worthless. That is wrong, I have always enjoyed his point of view. One of the reasons I like this board is that nobody gets their nose out of joint over different opinions. I don't like the idea that I may have caused offense.

Pow, I am sorry. Please accept my humble apology.

I have never been one to wish a show's demise because I didn't care for it. This is petty. If someone gets enjoyment for a show I don't like, well good for them.

My view on remakes...sorry, "reboots" (flavor of the day), is that if you remove the names can you recognize the source.

The BSG remake skirts the line, but ultimately fails. Fair disclose: I turned the show off after the fembot murdered the infant. I found the scene distasteful, but that is not why I turned the show off. It was the shaky kids-with-a-camcorder camera work. It was giving me a raging headache! Laughing Seriously people, at least use a Steadicam, people spent a lot of money developing them.

The "Man From U.N.C.L.E." movie came nowhere near the TV show. The only thing it had in common was the names of the three lead characters, and it took place in the 1960s. There wasn't even an U.N.C.L.E. Organization!

Which bring us to the second LIS TV remake. Well, it's closer to the last TV remake, than the original show. I watched the episodes. I marveled at the production design and the SPFX. I will watch the second batch, but I don't hold out much hope.

First the elephant in the room: Doctor Smith. Doctor Smith, ISN'T DOCTOR SMITH! The character ISN'T EVEN A DOCTOR! The character is stupid! She tells conflicting stories to people, who will inevitably compare stories. Any of the stories would have worked for all, and would have delayed exposure. Somehow they managed to make her even more incompetent and despicable than the original Dr. Smith with none of the charm. And the original Dr. Smith was a snobby elitist! I really don't see how her character contributes as much as the original.

The Jupiter II. The JII makes absolutely no sense. It is not a starship. It's not even a spaceship. It is a lander intended to make a one way journey from a starship to a planet's surface, then be parked forever. It is intended to be more of a mobile home, that never goes anywhere. So, rather than having shuttles for the starship, they waste money, resources, hulls, retractable engines, big honkin' propulsion engines, all for a vehicle, that is never intended to go anywhere again...except for maybe changing parking spaces.

Granted, the original JII was suppose to be on a one-way journey, but at least it was making the long haul trip under it's own propulsion. And with Earth technology.

The JII completely fills with water, which IMMEDIATELY freezes. Yet the ice is quickly melted, completely dried out with no adverse effects to ANYTHING. The ships systems, furnishings, gear, 3-D printer, Chariot, the Robinson's belongings and such. Well maybe the cabins were hermetically sealed, but they didn't look like it. Anyway you look at it, that is one well built lander and gear.

The loss of fuel in the landers. Somehow, these eels manage to swim through solid ice, enter the spaceship, and eat the fuel. Okay. Please explain to me how these eels managed to swim through the air and enter the other, SEALED Jupiter ships and eat their fuel.

Please explain to me how this is more plausible, and believable than the original series?

The show also continues the path of all the remakes, in making the JII a rocket.

The Robot. The Robot is an alien, not an Earth construction.

The Robinson family. The show continues the Hollywood tradition of the remakes in making the family dysfunctional. Can't have a loving, well adjusted family. Frankly, I found the parents to be pretty reprehensible people.

Maureen is a controlling, micromanaging shrew, with criminal tendencies who's husband would rather spend time in life threatening combat, then spend time with her. She also nearly gets herself killed because she can't bring herself to trust anyone. She does not respect her husband, and would have been very happy if he had stayed behind. Given her personality, I don't think her first husband died. He fled for his life and sanity.

John. This show copies the last remake, by making him a Military man, just not as accomplished as in the last remake. Apparently TWO scientists in the family would be one too many. And it would also remove some of the authority from Maureen. Can't have that in today's Hollywood. Despite being a Military man John, a combat veteran has problems standing up to his duplicitous shrew of a wife, who for some inexplicable reason, he loves.

Will. Will goes from being a genius, to a child that can't pass the colonization test, so his mother has to commit a crime I don't remember, so he wouldn't get left behind. He is also seems to have some emotional problems. Not a surprise given his parents.

Judy. A child from Maureen's FIRST marrage and John's addopted daughter, that is an EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD DOCTOR OF MEDICINE! Do I really need to say more about this one? Okay, I do. Judy has doubts about her competency. REALLY!? HOW? SHE'S AN EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD WHO SOMEHOW BECAME A FULL, ACCREDITED MEDICAL DOCTOR! She should be the most confident person you ever met, if not downright conceited!

Penny. A fairly well adjusted teenager. A miracle considering her parents.

Actually it's a miracle that all the children aren't emotional wrecks in therapy with the parents they have.

The children like each other, get along, and are close. Well somebody in the production screwed-up here.

Don. Don is a maintenance man. I don't know where to go from here. Except to say that despite being a smuggler of luxury items, he is probably the most moral, caring person in the show.

Right now it's a toss up on who's the bigger criminal, Maureen or Don. My money's on Maureen.

The timeline. While watching the show, I tried to figure out the timeline, but it was a mess. I am willing to admit that someone more talented than I might be able to figure it out, but I couldn't

Mankind is not going to the stars on it's own technology.

As near as I can figure out, it takes place in the near future. The homes, clothing, Military gear look modern day. In the scenes they show of the family watching the news about the crash of the alien ship, they don't looked younger. But give them a break, say six years. In six years, they reversed engineered an alien FTL drive, and figured out how to use it. They also built a truly massive starship to use it, and several fleets of landers for the starship.

The Robinson family is not in the first wave of colonist.

There are no LASER weapons, just firearms. The firearms are not part of the colonization gear, and you need the permission of the colony administrator to 3-D print one, plus ammunition. Just great for emergency situations. Like when you're forced to land on an alien planet with hostile creatures.

There is probably more, but it has been almost a year since I have seen the series, and this was all i could remember.

Opinions please, did I prove my point?

David.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel wrote:
Opinions please, did I prove my point?

Good lord, yes! At the risk of sounding wishy-washy, now I'm wondering WHY I liked the series!

All you points are valid, well supported, and well presented. I think part of the reason I didn't catch many of the flaws you described was because I didn't quite get the first few episodes (and hadn't started liking the series very much yet), so those things that mar the logic and appeal of the show went over my head. (I think my head is getting lower each year, because more things go over it these days . . . Rolling Eyes)

Another reason I didn't feel critical of the changes was because I'm not a fan of the original, so as far as I was concerned they could throw out anything they wanted to and change the crap out of the new one.

Sadly, I now realize just how flawed the changes were, and my opinion of the show has gone down.

David, thanks for (a) taking the time to present your well thought-out analysis of this series, and (b) for feeling that All Sci-Fi is place where you can state your opinions without being insulted by other people who disagree. Cool

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Krel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud, I wasn't trying to prove that the remake is a bad show, it isn't. I found it to be an okay show with great special effects, sets and production values, that dragged a bit in places. Okay, I found it boring in spots. I will watch the new episodes, hoping that it will grab me.

My goal was to prove, that despite the labels. It isn't "Lost In Space".

But I figured, if I was going to make my point, then I might as well have some fun doing it. Especially, as it turned out to be a long post.

Like I wrote, if someone finds enjoyment from a show, GREAT! I hope it lasts for you, and I will not fault you for liking it.

As for the original "Lost In Space", I do like it, particularly, well mostly, the first season. I do acknowledge that it isn't for the most part an SF series. But then Irwin Allen stated that his shows were not SF shows, but action shows that used SF trappings. If he is not trying to do an SF show, can you blame him if he succeeds? Laughing Despite that, the first season had some good, dramatic SF shows.

David.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

David, it's a great post, and I appreciate the fact that you contributed such a well-written analysis. It isn't just logical and accurate . . . it has style! Cool

That's exactly what we want around here — logic, good writing, and lots of style!. Wink

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Pow
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel, it is kind of you to apologize but it was not required at all.

No one is going to agree with others 100% on anything in this life. Politics, religion, or what are opinions are regarding art.

On this amazing board the topic is science fiction films and television. While we are here because we are all fans of the genre it'd be absurd to believe we all have the exact same feelings, thoughts and opinions on these films and TV shows.

Gene Roddenberry once said how boring and dull and drab this world would be if we always agreed on everything all the time.

I enjoy reading your opinions on films & TV, Dave, and anyone else that posts their thoughts...even if I don't share the same view.

Sometimes the views of others make me rethink my opinion or see something in a different light.

Sometimes other posts have intriguing trivia & facts about a production I never knew about.

And sometimes an opposing post doesn't change my view but is still interesting to read.

I'm always ready for a robust debate because I know no one is right about everything. Just as I realize that we are all entitled to having our own opinion on something.

We all should be able to have a civil discourse on a production here and not feel that 'the other gent' can't put in their 2 cents.

One of the things I enjoyed about seeing a movie with a bunch of friends was we'd all grab a pizza afterwards and discuss the pros or con of the film we just saw.

Nobody got upset just because someone else had a differing view. That's life.

Mike
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Hey, man, you had me at "this amazing board"! Cool

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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen the first season of the revamped LIS and thought it was okay. Not that it was anywhere near the original show which was one of my faves as a child back in the sixties! I'll watch it but think of it as another show which just borrows the old show's title!
JB
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnybear wrote:
I'll watch it but think of it as another show which just borrows the old show's title!
JB

I think that's exactly the right attitude, JB.

Pow (aka Mike) proved beyond all doubt that the new show has very little in common with the original series, and some of the changes it's made are both illogical and unappealing! Sad

I've been a frequent and outspoken critic of the original series, but the respect it's earned from folks like you and Mike leads me to believe I haven't been entirely fair in my evaluation. No one denies that the series started out with higher expectations and a more serious tone than the later episodes with things like opera-singing alien Viking women Rolling Eyes . . .

But you guys have convinced me that I might have thrown out the baby with the bath water! Maybe I'll get season 1 from Netfix and give it a shot. After a few cold beers I tend be much more tolerant and appreciative! Cool

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johnnybear
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Bud! The original has many faults and the second season is the place of where many of them exist, so it's okay to critique the show! But for many of us it holds a special place in our hearts despite it's failings!
JB
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Maurice
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're being fair there's not much to the original show. The characters were so thinly sketched you could see through them, except for Will, the Robot and Smith. The show was criticized for this even as it aired, even by the cast, the bulk of which rarely had anything to do. It's even been established that since CBS perceived the show as aimed at children they cut most of the really scary stuff and all the to 8-year-olds "ewww" romantic stuff out of the show (how often does John even kiss his wife after the first half dozen episodes?). It was deliberate pablum.

The new show is exactly the same premise with only the particulars changed up: a family set adrift on alien worlds and fighting to survive. The personalities are different, sure, but the originals barely had personalities: so no one was going to copy that. Maureen is a criminal? Okay, but when the chips are down and their children's futures hang in the balance how many people aren't going to act?

And is anyone seriously, critiquing the science in the new show in comparison to the Irwin Allen scienceless science of the original?

I don't love the new show, albeit I thought it got better midway through its first season. But really it's the same show deep down, just in tune with modern TV conventions, like them or not.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I must confess, this has been a very illuminating discussion. I've heard intelligent viewpoints from both sides, and since I started out on the negative side and then swung over a bit on the positive side . . . I'm now smack in the middle! Shocked

For that reason, I did watch a few of the first-season episodes from a Netflix disc, but I decided it just wasn't a series I could enjoy because I've grown too old to appreciate it the way it's most devoted fans do — the ones who formed their opinions when they were young enough to view it through the eyes of innocence. Very Happy

As for the new series, I enjoyed it more after watching the first half of season 1, and I was eager to see season 2 . . . but I haven't watched any of those episodes yet simply because (as I said above) I'm more aware of it's faults than I was previously.

So, I'll wait a bit longer and let my brain digest the well-written criticisms which have been expressed in this thread. I'll appreciate it better if I accept its faults and allow its virtues to be presented without too much negative feelings on my part.

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