ALL SCI-FI

[Bud Brewster]

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Thinking Outside the "Plot"!
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We're told that the "Ilia probe" and Decker merge with V'Ger to create "new life form" at the end of the movie. This life form would be immensely powerful, and it contains all the knowledge which V'Ger collected during it's long journey from the Machine Planet back to Earth.

~ A Question for the Members: First of all, did V'Ger send its vast treasure of knowledge to Star Fleet? If so, how did this change mankind's technology.

Second, what happened to V'Ger when it simply disappeared? Did it transform itself into some kind of invisible, non-material entity? Did it somehow return to the Machine Planet that modified Voyage 6 — and if so, why?

Finally, if we assume this "new life form" is a super-powerful, super-intelligent being who represents "the next step in mankind's evolution" (according to Spock), how might it eventually interact with the human race?

~ My Theory: That's a lot to tackle! I don't have ideas for most of the questions, so I'll just kick off the discussion by proposing that due to V'Ger's nature after the transformation (especially since Decker and Ilia became part of it), it seems likely that V'Ger would feel benevolent towards mankind.

If we assume the Borg weren't completely destroyed in Endgame, the series finale of ST: Voyager, is it possible that a "recovering remnant" of the Borg will threaten mankind again, and V'Ger will do battle with the Borg?

Just a few thoughts, guys. I'd love to hear some of your own!
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[mach7]

Maybe V'Ger was assimilated by the Borg at some point after the TMP but before TNG. That could account for the Borg's knowledge of Earth?

Or maybe V'Ger merged/joined with the Q. That could explain Q's fascination with the Enterprise and then Picard.

It could be that V'Ger just left our galaxy all together and went exploring. If so it could come back home at some point.

A possible plot line for Discovery.

Just a few quick thoughts.

My thinking is V'ger became a incorporeal being, similar to
Vanamonde in A.C.Clarke's book "The City and the Stars".

[Bud Brewster]

[mach7]

I watched "Endgame" today. It seems to me that the Borg were not completely destroyed, but that node was.
How many nodes do the Borg have?

If this is is correct V'Ger could come back and help fight the Borg.

But.....

Could the machine planet that repaired/created V'Ger be the origin of the Borg? Perhaps the machine planet helped rebuild a damaged CyBorg ship that fell into its sphere of influence. If they gave it the full V'Ger treatment it would be very powerful indeed. Add in a biologic component with a drive to reproduce/expand you could easily get the Borg as they are.

I don't mean that the machine planet is evil. It's more likely that it is benign or neutral. Just like NOMAD, the Borg don't see what they are doing as evil, they are just following programing. Would the machine inhabitants of the planet understand that what the Borg were doing was evil? What does a machine care about free will? Love?

Which raises another question, Can an artificial life form understand evil? death? fear?

In 2001 ASO HAL did not understand that killing Frank was evil, it was just trying to correct a conflict in its programing.
When HAL said "I'm afraid" what did it mean?

In TNG Data never felt fear (or love) until the emotion chip was installed, but he did seem to understand friendship.

Lore on the other hand was just pure evil.

But . . . is an evil machine entity just programed for survival above all else?

In other words, the 3rd law has primacy.

Well, I've referenced 3 major science fiction franchise's in this post! But they all seem interrelated to the subject.

[mach7]

I like the line of thinking here, but I think the timing is off.

Voyager 6 was launched in the 1990's and disappeared into <an anomaly known then as a black hole> (Paraphrased).

It's generally accepted that anything that falls into a black hole is lost forever, So I'm assuming that it fell into a wormhole.

We are not sure how long V'Ger drifted before encountering the machine planet.

The Borg must have been in existence longer than the 280 years needed for the V'Ger timeline, otherwise Guinan's people could not have been attacked and scattered by the Borg.

Although Guinan was on Earth in 2024, I think the 30+ years from her being on Earth from Voyager 6's launch is too short for the Borg to be created and threaten Guinan's planet.

YMMV though.

[Bud Brewster]

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Holy Mother of Pearl, you guys have dazzled me with the posts above!

I'll need a little more time (and few college courses in cosmology) to make a better reply than this one, which is just intended to say "Thank you!" for contributing the kind of original thinking I created the very first version of All Sci-Fi for back in 2006!

Please, please, please continue this brilliant discussion!
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[mach7]

I believe that sometime before his death Roddenberry made a half joking statement ( I'm paraphrasing from memory) "that perhaps the machine planet from TMP was the Borg home world"

[mach7]

Yah, as Ford Prefect said "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so"

If, as I presume, Voyager 6 did fall into a wormhole I guess it could have traveled back in time also.

Rascals, possibly the worst episode of TNG. Ok maybe Sub Rosa is worse.

[mach7]

V'Ger.

[mach7]

Star Trek V is generally considered the worst of the TOS movies, but is it worse than 3?

Possibly, but both are low points in the, lets all face it, the overall underwhelming TOS (and TNG/JJ's) movies.

I like TMP and 6, but the rest suffer from mediocre (for ST) writing. Yes even The Wrath of Khan. Most of the stories seem very forced to me and could have gone through a few more script revisions.

Star Trek is best when it is episodic TV, and I think without the long story arcs. One reason I'm cautiously optimistic about SNW.