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Robert (Butch) Day Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014 Posts: 1437 Location: Arlington, WA USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:44 am Post subject: Cinefantastique double issue — Forbidden Planet |
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Cinefantastique Vol 8 Number 2 & Vol 8 Number 3
As you can see, there are other pictures which I've added to the original Cinefantastique article. I added them to enhance the discussion and provide insights as to what the article didn't cover, such as the advertising campaign, the TV guest appearances, what happened to various items such as the Id footprint cast, etc.
Enjoy!
Butch
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A note from Bud!
This article is sort of the “Bible” for Forbidden Planet, and if you're a fan of this film, you'll spend hours enjoying what you'll find below. When I bought the magazine 1979, I spent an entire week reading it while recuperating from a car accident which caused my left arm to be in a cast — and yet I took several pages of notes on the article, even though I'm left handed and the cast made it hard to write.[/u]!
THAT'S how amazing this article is!
Working with Butch over the last few days, he and I have managed to super-charge this post by creating an enhanced version of the Cinefantastique article which is even better than the original!
Butch provided something which I couldn't find on Archive.org or anywhere else — high quality scans of this amazing issue! After he placed his scans on Imgur, I copied them to my computer and spent hours enhancing each page with Paint.net for maximum clarity.
He and I own copies of the magazine, and we’re both keenly aware that the text is frustratingly small. Most of the picture captions are especially hard to read because the background is almost as dark as the text!
But the enhanced version below, which we've created exclusively for All Sci-Fi, allows our members to click on any of the pages which include text (as well as a few of the picture-only pages) and view a large-size version.
Be sure to click on the large version again, so you can zoom in as close as you want!
But wait! There's more!
I replaced many of the faded B&W pictures and the washed-out color photos with crystal-clear, color-rich versions which bring this great article to life like never before! I think you'll be amazed by the difference between the original scans of the article which Butch generously provided and the enhanced versions I managed to create.
This comprehensive and well-researched article provides so much information about Forbidden Planet that I’m sure every member who reads it will have a wealth of new comments to make about the movie!
I recommend you take notes as you read the article so you'll remember which facts you want to share and comment on.
Below many of the pages you'll see this:
Click here to see the original page above, before I enhanced it.
Click on each page below which has an embedded link and you’ll see a large, easy-to-read version you can zoom in on. Click on the large version again, and you can zoom in as close as you want!
Bud
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60A - The picture below is a fake version of the photo above, using a picture of the cyclorama which appeared behind the set of the landing scene, not the set with the full-sized saucer.
I'm not sure how the actual "landing scene" cyclorama was done, because that backdrop was 75' high, and the canvases on these special easels only went up to 40' high according the the caption in the picture above!
The creator of the fake photo is unknown. Orzel-w spotted the photographic trickery a few years ago and pointed it out on All Sci-Fi.
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66 ![](https://i.imgur.com/NeB118J.jpg) _________________ Common Sense ISN'T Common
Last edited by Robert (Butch) Day on Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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________________________________
The post above is the first "collaborative effort" between two members of All Sci-Fi!
Butch created the original thread above, but his scans of the Cinefantastique article needed my help to be presented in the best possible way, so we teamed up and created a thread which offers this amazing article about Forbidden Planet in the fashion it deserves.
Please take the time to read the article and post replies either here OR on the Forbidden Planet thread.
In fact, you could even post a copy THERE of anything you post HERE! It's not like we have too much going on here at All Sci-Fi, right?
I think similar discussions on both threads would be fun! ![Very Happy](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
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Eadie Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 1695
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Great Work! BUT there is one image missing; it shows just two crewmen along with two crew and Frankie Thomas inside Robby. It is marked as "28" on your post showing two crew helping Frankie Thomas into the 'suit' while stuntman Frankie Carpenter observes (CFQ forgot to add a caption, but I'm certain this would have been close.). What happened? _________________ ____________
Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Eadie!
I don't know why that image didn't display. The image is on Imgur (just like it was yesterday), so I copied the URL again and replaced the one that didn't work. The image displays fine now.
The first code was different from the one I replaced it with today, which is odd since all images worked fine yesterday. I can't figure out how the code for that image worked yesterday, then changed to one that didn't work this morning, and then changed back to one that DID work when I copied-and-pasted it again!
Weird.
Eadie, I'm certain that you'll be one of the members who will read the article and takes a few notes about interesting things you want to comment on in replies.
I'm going to start doing that very thing today. ![Cool](images/smiles/icon_cool.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
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Eadie Galactic Ambassador
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I've already read it. We have 2 copies each of both the single CFQ issue and the double CFQ issue as well as many other magazines and newspaper articles. And there are plenty of notes to spare! _________________ ____________
Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Eadie wrote: | I've already read it. We have 2 copies each of both the single CFQ issue and the double CFQ issue as well as many other magazines and newspaper articles. And there are plenty of notes to spare! |
Great! I've read it too, (decades before you were even born), and I'm reading it again. I'm up to page 24, and I already have three pages of new notes that I need to edit, revise, and share in the next few days.
Meanwhile I'm eagerly awaiting your own comments on the wonderful revelations which this article shares. This gold mine of info should provide enough new comments on the Forbidden Planet thread for the next six months!
And did you notice how I keep upgrading the crappy photos in the article with improved B&W and great color versions?
Damn, am I good or what? ![Cool](images/smiles/icon_cool.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Eadie Galactic Ambassador
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:54 am Post subject: |
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The person looking on Frankie Darro getting into the Robby suit (listed as set #!0) is western actor/stuntman John Carpenter (June 25,1914 - February 27, 2003). The name of the character he most commonly played was "Frankie Jasper". He was so well known in the stunt community that he 'adopted' the name "Frankie Carpenter". He was the uncredited person who was lifted on wires when the Id monster killed Lt. Gerald 'Jerry' P. Farman.
![](https://i.imgur.com/214UQF2.jpg) _________________ ____________
Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable.
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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________________________________
As I expected, this awesome article has generated almost a dozen pages of comments I want to make after reading it again from my post above.
Rather than adding one overly long post here, I’m going to break down my comments into smaller posts which are reasonable in length — adding pictures whenever they enhance my remareks, because I cannot STAND a long post that doesn’t have a few good pictures to break the monotony of too much text!
So, I’ll make a new post every few days, which will give you guys a chance to add replies!
I’m assuming that we have a few members who might be reluctant to read an article this long and this detailed, and I'm hoping those folks will appreciate the fact that their beloved site administration took the time to read the whole thing and find some of the more interesting facts to present in his own witty and unique style.
I hope my posts will encourage all our members to set aside the time needed to read those portions of the article I’ve called their attention to . . . if not the entire article eventually.
With that in mind, I’ll add the first part of my comments on this magnificent piece of cinematic research (and the unique movie which inspired it) tomorrow.
I hope you guys will enjoy it.
Bud _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2948 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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I too have copies of the original issue of CINEFANTATIQUE as well as the earlier article in Vol#4 no#1 issue of CINEFANTASTIQUE by author Steve Rubin . I've read and re-read them many times (Even had to save them from a flood that saw the loss of my original shooting script of FORBIDDEN PLANET with Wilcox's margin notations in pencil !)
These two issues are as close to a FORBIDDEN PLANET BIBLE as could be imagined. Still there are hundreds of unanswered questions to be explored. I want to thank Bud, Eadie and Butch for their efforts to bring these documents into availability! THANK YOU GUYS AND GAL!
Make your comments Bud.....I welcome the discourse! _________________ There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting things I’ve learned from this article — part 1
Irving Block, one of the two men who pitch the premise of Forbidden Planet to MGM producer Nicholas Nayfack, is said to have loved ancient myths and the works of Shakespeare. The idea that Altaira was a virgin, and therefore had a special relationship with the animals stemmed from Block’s interest in the virgin-and-unicorn myth.
But of course it was Cyril Hume who crafted the screenplay, and I firmly believe that he loaded the story with clues which indicate that the animals were created by the Krell machine in response to Morbius' fatherly concern for his lonely daughter’s happiness.
This is consistent with the idea that Morbius’ subconscious reacted negatively to the way his daughter was developing strong feelings for Adams and she was probably going to leave her father and go back to Earth when the starship left.
Thus the tiger attacked Adams when he kissed Altaira because the machine was aware of the hostile feelings Morbius was developing towards the man who might take his beloved daughter away from him. The tiger was, in effect, a sort of “mini-Id monster” which threatened Adams the same way the actual Id monster threatened all the crewmen.
It should also be noted that one kiss did NOT mean Altaira was no longer a virgin! Therefore, even if there was some sort of "spiritual" link between her and the animals (assuming they were real and not Krell-machine-created) that link would not have been broken by one kiss from Adams.
In fact, in Cyril Hume's screenplay the kiss doesn't occur until AFTER Adams and Altaira kiss!
The tiger attacks while the couple is just standing by the pool chatting about the fact that Altaira has no idea what her father's "work" is all about. Frankly, the scene makes Altaira seem iike a blond airhead!
The article describes the way Block and Adller pitched the concept to Nicholas Nayfack, beginning with the invisible monster. Irving Block stalked around Nayfack's office slowly, pausing to breath heavily for a moment and then moving on.
He did such a great job that Nayfack loved the concept.
It’s ironic that the Id monster — a creature the audience doesn’t even see until the climax — was the carrot on a stick which caused Nayfack to becoming interested in making the most visually impressive science fiction movie ever made! ![Cool](images/smiles/icon_cool.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting things I’ve learned from this article — part 2
The article quotes several portions of an early draft of the screenplay, and it’s fun to compare how the story differs from the one we all know so well.
For example, compare the description on page 12 (image #11) of the tour the men take of the Krell Machine in relation to the one we see in the movie. Some differences are subtle, others are obvious. The articile discusses some of the difference, but it you are extremely familiar with the dialog you might not notice some of the others.
I notice a small but interesting fact while looking at the diagram of the Krell lab and the hand-written labels which named the various devices in the lab, specifically the Plexiglas pyramid inside which Morbius created the “three dimensional image” of Altaira.
Several years ago, Butch was under the impression that Walter Pigeon misspoke his line in the Krell lab when he referred to the “plastic educator”. Butch maintained that Walter Pigeon was supposed to say “plasmic eductor”. I have to admit, I liked the idea, because “plastic educator” really doesn’t make much sense!
However, both the blueprints for that device on page 17 (picture #17) and the script itself refers to it as the “plastic educator”. Frankly, plasmic education sounds more high tech, which is why I liked Butch’s suggestion.
As we all know, some of the scenes that were shot for the movie but then edited out by Ferris Webster, and one of these scenes takes place after the burial of Chief Quinn, when Altaira declares her love for Adams in front of Morbius. But Morbius tells her she has to make a choice between Adams and her father.
This scene is not, to my knowledge, included in the “deleted scenes” which the DVD and Blu-ray include.
Another deleted scene was the wedding aboard ship at the very end. Frankly, such a scene would have spoiled the serious ending of the movie and the somber message which Adams delivers to Altaira.
“Someday your father’s name will shine again, like a beacon in the galaxy. True, it will remind us that we are, after all, not God.”
That closing line (and the way it honors Dr. Edward Morbius) is part of the reason why I disagree with the suggestions I’ve read by a few fans of the film who think Morbius was anything other than a fine man who was victimized by the Krell machine’s misguided efforts to grant the “requests” the machine received from his subconscious.
I found this behind-the-scenes photo of the wedding ceremony (which is also shown on page 46, or image #41) and noticed something surprising!
We all know that Gavin McLeod was allegedly one of the crewmen, but nobody has found a picture of him yet from the movie, nor does IMDB list him in the cast.
But there’s another popular actor who IS listed in the cast, even though no pictures of him seem to available of him either . . . until now.
Notice the man directly behind Adams.
Guys, that fellow seems to be serving as the “best man” at John and Altaira’s wedding, which is very appropriate since I’m pretty sure that’s none other than . . . James Best!
~ A note about the high quality of Forbidden Planet in general:
I’ve always been amused by the fact that, according to this article, MGM planned for Forbidden Planet to be a relatively low budget picture when production first began. They gave it a short shooting schedule and a cast which included no big stars.
But as the production went along, the crew became more and more enthusiastic about it the film, and both its budget and the quality of the production were raised gradually because of this!
I remember reading that the script was reviewed by scientists at leading universities, but I’d forgotten that it was actually director Fred Wilcox (an astronomy buff) who spent three months prior to the start of filming taking the script around to “leading scientists at Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Cal Tech, and other centers of engineering and science”.
Holy mackerel! No wonder this is the most intelligent science fiction movie ever made!
The article states that MGM executives had little faith in the movie and wanted to do it on the cheap. But Arthur Lonergan and Buddy Gillespie got together “and decided to design the movie the way it should be done, regardless of the damn budget!” Producer Nayfack and director Wilcox went along with the conspiracy, seeing it as “a way to do justice to the material.”
And when the film went over budget, studio head Dore Schary came to look at the sets and find out where all the money was going. However, he was so impressed that he told the accountants at MGM to allocate more funds for the movie. He’s quoted as having said, “I was fascinated with what they were doing! Just fascinated!”
And that’s how Forbidden Planet seduced its production crew and the studio head himself into producing the movie they really wanted to make, instead of the low-budget movie they originally intended.
It was literally a labor of love. ![Very Happy](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
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Gord Green Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 06 Oct 2014 Posts: 2948 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Sure to bring a response from Bud, I'd like to share an essay I wrote on FORBIDDEN PLANET and Edward Morbius.
MORBIUS----THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS
What Edward Morbius was like before undergoing the "Brain Boost" from the Plastic Educator can only be inferred from hints of his subsequent behavior and his history as revealed in the FORBIDDEN PLANET script.
That he was a warm, charming man is evident by his marriage to Julia Marsin onboard the Bellerophon. He must of had personal traits that his future wife found endearing and loving. He showed these traits in his love for his daughter as well.
As a Philoligist he was knowledgable of legends and the roots of mankinds interactions through historical records. Philology is defined as the study of literary texts and of written records, the establishment of their authenticity and their original form, and the determination of their meaning, (especially in older use) linguistics, especially historical and comparative linguistics. as well as the love of learning and literature.
He must have been completly familiar with the myth of the Unicorn as well as the concepts of the Seven Deadly sins as expressed in ancient Latin and Greek theological texts.
Although references to the Unicorn were excised from the final film they still are very pertinent in understanding the psyche of Morbius.
After obtaining his powers of creation from the Krell machine HE was Alta's protector....HE was the Unicorn.
Further his subconcious became the repository of the embodiment of all the traits of the pantheon of the Deadly Sins and led to his demise.
The Seven Deadly Sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, is a grouping and classification of vices within Christian teachings.
Behaviours or habits are classified under this category if they directly give birth to other immoralities.
According to the standard list, they are: Pride, Greed, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, and Sloth.
Let's look at how these can be applied to Edward Morbius.
Pride-
The original and most serious of the seven deadly sins. Also known as hubris, it is identified as dangerously corrupt selfishness, the putting of one's own desires, urges, wants, and whims before the welfare of people.
Morbius decreed that HE would be the sole arbiter of what Krell knowledge would be shared with other humans.
In even more destructive cases, it is irrationally believing that one is essentially and necessarily better, superior, or more important than others, is the most hidden, secret and deceitful of all lusts, and often creeps in unannounced.
Morbius treated the crewmen with an air of arrogance and distain. Right from the start he spoke down to them and maintained an air of superiority. After Doctor Ostrow died Morbius spoke of his "ape's brain" revealing his feelings of superiority to mere "humans".
In Ancient Athens, hubris was considered one of the greatest crimes and was used to refer to insolent contempt that can cause one to use violence. Violence indeed was the result. First in the death and destruction of the Bellerophon crew, later with the attacks on the C-57-D crew.
Excessive feelings of pride have a tendency to create conflict and sometimes terminating close relationships.
He could not tolerate Alta's feelings for Adams and ultimatly drove her away from him.
Benjamin Franklin said:
"In reality there is, perhaps no one of our natural passions so hard to subdue as pride. Disguise it, struggle with it, stifle it, mortify it as much as one pleases, it is still alive and will every now and then peep out and show itself;"
Morbius indeed stifled his "monster" pushing it deep into his subconcious mind until he didn't even know it was there.
Greed -
Hoarding of materials or objects. He wanted to keep the knowledge of the Krell to himself, only parceling out those tidbits he wanted to reveal.
Lust -
Lust could also mean simply desire in general; thus, lust for power.HE was the God King of Altair 4 and warned off the C-57-D right from the beginning. He didn't want any interference in his control of HIS world.
Envy-
Malicious envy is similar to jealousy in that they both feel discontent towards someone. That Morbius was envious of Alta's new found attraction to Adams resulted in the unleashing of the "Id Monster".
Gluttony-
Gluttony can be interpreted as selfishness; essentially placing concern with one's own impulses or interests above the well-being or interests of others. He coveted the knowledge of the Krell and only when pushed did he reveal the bits that he did.
Wrath -
Can be defined as uncontrolled feelings of anger, rage, and even hatred. Wrath often reveals itself in the wish to seek vengeance. Morbius's subconcious held the primitive mind's rage against his adversaries and his Krell granted powers gave him the outlet to make it so.
Sloth-
Sloth has also been defined as a failure to do things that one should do. By this definition, evil exists when "good" people fail to act. Sloth is a sin of omitting responsibilities. Morbius balked at allowing Alta to return to Earth to further her education and ability to socialize and integrate with other people.
As demonstrated, Morbius was the repository of ALL the Deadly Sins, some conciously and some deep in his subconcious.
Morbius was a good man beset and haunted by his demons. His path to destruction began with his introduction to the Krell Educator and led to the destruction of a planet.
Sometimes a hero is more to be pitied than reveared.
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Note: This is basicly a first draft of my essay so comments are very welcome! _________________ There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.
Last edited by Gord Green on Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Eadie Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 1695
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Gord Green wrote: | the Bellerathon |
Excuse me but what's "the Bellerathon"? and what do you get if you participate in one?
Cyril Hume wrote about Bellerophon the greatest Ancient Greek hero before Heracles (AKA Hercules). Wikipedia has a very good article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellerophon Like The Tempest the story of Bellerophon fits right in to the Forbidden Planet plot.
I think Mr. Hume knew of what he was implying when he used Bellerophon in the script. Nut in this case the Chimera won! _________________ ____________
Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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That's a fine essay, Gord!
It's obvious that you've thought a lot about this fascinating character. I've spent decades doing the same thing and enjoyed every minute of it.
Obviously we agree that Morbius was a good man in many ways, and that he made common human mistakes which (because of the Krell machine) were magnified into a great tragedy.
One of the few differences of opinion we have concerns your statements that "Morbius treated the crewmen with an air of arrogance and disdain. Right from the start he spoke down to them and maintained an air of superiority."
I think that statement is not quite true.
Yes, he didn't hide the fact that he thought he was the "smartest man in the room", but since this was undeniably true (and the other guys knew it), I don't fault him from displaying confidence and intelligence with no false modesty. Actually he was consistently polite and respectful. He even compliments Doc when the guys were leaving after lunch.
"To tell the truth I sometimes still miss the conversation of such gentlemen as yourself, Doctor."
So, he freely acknowledged that Doc, the man of science among the crewmen, was someone he admired and enjoyed talking to.
In the Krell lab, Morbius calmly stated that a Krell child would have sent the IQ gauge all the way to the top, and yet he was only able to send it up halfway. He humbly acknowledged that "by Krell standards that classifies me as a low-grade moron. And yet I have an officially recorded IQ of a 183."
And he said that before the brain boost, "My brain pattern was scarcely any larger than yours" (meaning both of the two men's levels on the IQ gauge).
In other words, he freely admitted that his higher IQ was caused by the brain boost. He wasn't bragging about being smart, he was just stating a fact.
Doc states that his reading on the IQ gauge was about one third of Morbius', but Morbius remained tactfully silent when Doc commented on the difference.
And when Adams' reading was even lower, Morbius just smiled and makes a lighthearted joke.
"That's all right, sir. A commanding officer doesn't need brains, just a good loud voice, eh?"
By they way, Doc states that his IQ is 161, and yet if you look at his level on the gauge and then Adams' level a few moments later, the commander's level is only slightly lower! So, Morbius wasn't actually insinuating that Adams was dumb and Doc was smart. He was just ribbin' old John a little.
My point is that I see no evidence in this scene of Morbius demonstrating "an air of arrogance and disdain", or that he "spoke down to them and maintained an air of superiority."
I maintain that Morbius was equally courteous throughout most of the movie.
Naturally this was not the case when he saw that Doc was dead and shouted, "The fool! The meddling idiot! As if his ape's brain could contain the secrets of the Krell!" —
— and Altaira says, "Father, he's dead."
Morbius replies, "He was warned! And now he's paid. Let him be buried with the other victims of human greed and folly."
I think he was angry because he respected Doc's intelligence, and he hated the fact that Doc had done something he should have known would kill him. During this whole exchange, Morbius is looking down at Doc as if he deeply regretted what had happened, not as if he thought a stupid man had caused his own death.
We should also remember that in earlier scenes Morbius freely admitted he'd spent twenty years studying the Krell science after barely surviving the brain boost and using his increased intelligence to help him ponder the Krell mysteries. He freely admits that he's hardly scratched the surface, and that without the brain boost "my research here would have come to nothing."
So, Morbius knows he's only superior in intelligence because of the brain boost, a fact he openly admits. Therefore to be completely fair, the statement, "As if his ape's brain could contain the secrets of the Krell" was meant to compare mankind to the Krell, not Dr. Ostrow to Morbius.
On that subject, I've always appreciated the way Morbius was keenly aware that the Krell science contained powerful knowledge which, if misused, would mean the destruction of mankind. And he was the only person in existence who knew enough about it to make intelligent decisions concerning which aspects of the Krell science mankind should be given and which aspects were too dangerous.
Remember, this is a man whose 183 IQ had been doubled by the brain boost, and who had studied the Krell science relentlessly for two decades.
If Morbius thought mankind was too unintelligent and irresponsible to handle ANY of the Krell science, he would never have revealed the Krell laboratory to Adams and Ostrow. He'd have kept it a complete secret!
Instead of doing that, he had a sensible and cautious plan for allowing mankind to benefit from the Krell science, and he was willing to shoulder the terrible responsibility of making the tough decisions. In the study after the tour of the Krell machine, Adams demands that the Krell science be turned over to the "united worlds" (as he called it in that scene).
Morbius replies with this.
"For twenty years now I have constantly, and I hope dispassionately been considering this very problem, and I have come to the unalterable conclusion that man is unfit as yet to receive such knowledge, such almost limitless power."
Doc sarcastically replies. "Whereas Morbius, with his artificially expanded intellect, is ideally suited to administer this power for the whole human race."
Here's where Morbius and I completely agree! Morbius says —
"Precisely, Doctor! Such portions of the Krell science that — from time to time — I deem suitable and safe, I will dispense to Earth. Other portions I shall withhold. And in doing so I shall be answerable exclusively to my own conscience and judgement!"
Now, I realize that some folks will call this clear evidence of arrogance and pride — but I call it common sense! After all, if the government set up an agency to supervise the handling of the Krell science and carefully debated who to put in charge, who would clearly be the best man for the job?
Dr. Edward Morbius, that's who!
And how many people would he need to help him run this agency?
Well, basically . . . zero. If he had a bunch of subordinates who were neither as smart nor as knowledgeable as Morbius, he'd just end up trying to explain his decisions and arguing his reasons with these less-qualified individuals.
So, Morbius has accepted the daunting task of protecting mankind from the threat posed by the Krell science, while striving to let us benefit from some of it which (in his unique and highly qualified opinion) might be safe to share.
Some fans might think that Morbius was being too cautious about safeguarding mankind from this threat. But we should remember that the Krell themselves were far more intelligent than we are . . . and even THEY were destroyed by the mishandling of the powerful forces they thought they could control!
Gentlemen, I submit that the fate of the Krell themselves is an irrefutable argument which proves Morbius was absolutely right to be afraid of what the Krell science would do to mankind.
Poor Morbius' only mistake was in underestimating the power of the Krell science! And when he finally realized just how terrible the threat was, he made the only logical choice.
He destroyed the planet!
Gord, you've asserted that various "sins" were the downfall of Edward Morbius. I would counter by suggesting that his noble nature and his high intelligence led him to believe he could stand between mankind and the threat of the Krell science, while carefully sharing its benefits with us.
He was a man who knew his own species was flawed and self-destructive, but he believed we might rise to greatness the way the Krell did — a life form he called "this almost divine race" who had "conquered sickness, insanity, and all forms of injustice."
He had an awareness of his own intellectual superiority (without taking any real credit for it), and he chose to assume a frightening responsibility when he demanded the right to use his knowledge of the Krell science to decide what we should have . . . and what we should not.
But, like the Krell, he didn't realize that beneath his great intelligence and his noble nature was the dark and primitive side we all have. He didn't fully accept that fact until Adams delivered his powerful message about how both mankind and the Krell still have the savage natures we keep hidden and try to control.
Consider the main message of the film, delivered by Adams in that moving final moment. (Forgive me for quoting it again and posting the picture, but I love 'em both. )
"Alta, in about a million years mankind will have crawled up to where the Krell stood in their great moment of triumph . . . and tragedy. And your father's name will shine again. True, it will remind us that we are, after all, not God."
![](https://i.imgur.com/fMzWOec.png) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17155 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting things I’ve learned from this article — part 3
Here’s a fascinating fact about Robby that surprised me:
On page 22 (which is image #20) there’s a footnote under the second column of text about Robby’s design process which seems to contradict the commonly held belief that Bob Kinoshita designed Robby! Mentor Huebner claims he designed him, while Buddy Gillespie claims he did! And the two men each claim that the other man “refined” his ideas instead of originating them!
Bob Kenoshita took elements from various ideas and sketches those two men submitted to him and came up with a compromise that evolved into the final design. He fashioned a small model of it and used it to sell the concept to his superiors.
This article is a gold mine of info like this! Who did exactly what may never be known for sure, but it’s obvious that the parties involved were working hard to make the movie a masterpiece, and they certainly succeeded!
The last section of the text on the right side of page 22 (image #20) finally mentions Bob Kenoshita when Lonergan turned Huebner’s designs over to Kenoshita, who was the head draftsman of the art departs, so he could produce working drawings and blueprints of Robby.
The takeaway here is that the Robby’s designs were actually a collaborative effort between Lonergan, Huebner, and Kenoshita. Perhaps that’s why I’ve never cared much for Kenoshita’s other famous robot design, that clunky Robby wannabe, B9 for the Lost in Space.
But hey . . . that’s just my opinion, folks.
However, Kenoshita went to work designing a robot that would “fool the audience as to where you put the guy inside.” Kenoshita acknowledges the ideas he got from Irving Block, Buddy Gillespie, Nicholas Nayfack, Mentor Huebner, and Arthur Lonergan. But he stated that he had “something like six people to satisfy”!
Kenoshita created a wooden miniature of the design he came up with (yes, wooden) which was so appealing to all the people he answered to that it became part of the miniature used for the brief “deleted scene” of Robby racing across the desert when he carried the three men from the C-57-D to Morbius’ house!
But the detailed plans he and his team of draftsmen made for Robby’s final design took them eight weeks to complete! The plans were then turned over to Jack Gaylord, head of MGM’s prop department, and his team were the genius’ who worked out the technical problems which arose from turning a series of detailed blueprints of Robby into a walking, talking robot.
Page 24 from this article (image #21) shares several other amazing details of Robby’s genesis and creation. Read that page carefully and take notes. There we be a quiz in class on Friday.
Note to Butch: The article says the following on page 24 about Robby’s flashing voice tubes.
“Max Gebinger, a glass blower, made Robby’s neon tubes, which were rigged to a voice actuator by the sound department to switch on and off according to Robby’s dialog spoken by the operator.”
I should point out that this article was published in 1979, and Bill Malone didn’t buy Robby from Movie World / Cars of the Stars Museum until 1980, so the frequent assertions about those flickering voice tubes which our good friend Butch made on the former All Sci-Fi (before it crashed) are clearly bogus!
Butch absolutely insisted for two weeks straight that after Bill Malone bought Robby in 1980 he modified the circuits of the voice tubes to activate when the operator spoke!
Sorry, Butch. I just had to get in one last comment about that hotly debated issue from several years ago. ![Very Happy](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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