ALL SCI-FI

[Pye-Rate]

________________________________

What the hey!?

_SETI Investigates Possible ET Signal From Deep Space


_________________
The road to tomorrow runs through yesterday.

[Gord Green]

One problem in looking for radio signals from alien civilizations is that it assumes an alien culture would have a similar development of technology.

For example-----Imagine a culture developing on an isolated island in a vast ocean on Earth at the present time.

This culture has advanced to a point where they have developed steam power, wind power and a highly advanced culture of philosophers. Radio and television transmissions fill the air...but they have no way of knowing that.

One savant asks the question if they are alone on this world.

As a result a tower is built and a smokey, smudgy fire is built at the apex. The head savant decides to send out a series of smoke signals while another group keeps watch to see if there is any answer.

There are no responses so they conclude that they are the only ones.

Every now and then they see a strange bird in the sky (an airliner!), but those who claim to have seen one are ridiculed.

What if radio (all forms of electromagnetic transmissions) is only a phase in our development? What if there is a better method we just haven't advanced to (like entwined quantum particles )?

Like most forms of technology there are advances and changes as time passes.

We've gone from human muscle to animal muscle to steam to internal combustion to nuclear to.....whatever is next.

Why should we assume that "they" will have the same order of development?

[Bud Brewster]

________________________________

Good points one and all.

We should also consider the fact all the SETI programs are basically just "interstellar archeology", because any signals we eventually might pick up will be the same number years old as the number of light years the planet is from Earth.

But of course, any planet that's thousands of light years away certainly wouldn't be sending out radio signals strong enough for us to pick up here.

And of course, if there's no way to travel faster than light, finding another civilization is a bit pointless, because we can't even carry on a conversation with them without waiting years for questions to be received, and the same number of years for the answers to come back.

So, I can't get very excited about SETI, because it seems like all it can do is answer a completely academic question: Are we alone?

If we ever find that the answer is "no" — what's the next question?
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[MetroPolly]

Not to mention the fact that the aliens may have blown themselves up by now. Sorry to be a downer, but it could be.

Besides, even if it is a signal, it'll be a pretty dull conversation. a 90-something waiting period between answers; I don't like being on hold for 90 seconds.

[Gord Green]

Oh, I really don't think it would be a "message" in the literal sense, more of a "hello there!" kind of thing.

Kind of a search to see if they're all alone.

Recent thought is that we ARE all alone in this galaxy.

Actually, if you think about it the "human" race has been pretty much as we are now ability-wise for almost 100 thousand years, but we've only had civilization for perhaps 6 thousand years and only been technologically proficient (above the mechanical physical anyway!) for the past 6 HUNDRED years. Heck, we've only been capable of receiving any messages for the past 75 years!

There are many theories about "filters" a civilization would have to overcome. included in these are plagues, wars, and nuclear destruction. We still have a long way to go....and any aliens would have passed those tests before us.

I think life is fairly common in the universe. It is basically just chemistry. "Intelligent " life (Whatever that means!) would be EXTREMELY rare, and precious wherever it occurs. That's a good reason why we have to take care of ourselves.

[Bud Brewster]

________________________________

In Star Trek (and in my own novels) the species who have developed faster-than-light travel do not reveal their existence to the sentient species who aren't that advanced yet. (You know, the old Prime Directive.)

And since the Federation uses a communication method that's also faster than light, they simply don't create a lot of radio waves bouncing around the galaxy which the less-advanced species might pick up and puzzle over.

The reason all these science fiction futures relate to our discussion of SETI is this; if there are species who possess hyperdrive, they would desperately need a faster-than-light communication system, because without it they couldn't talk to the far-flung destinations to which they traveled.

It would be like living in a hi-tech society such as ours which depends heavily on the exchange of data on a daily basis — even though the fastest form of communication is the good old mailman, delivering letters. No phones, computers, radios, TVs, etc.

So, here's the point. If there are other civilizations, but they don't have hyperdrive starships, finding out that they exist would be nothing more than an "interesting fact" with no real practical value. We could never meet them.

And if there are civilizations who have hyperdrive starships, but they don't have a faster-than-light communication method, we can't even talk them unless they come to visit us — which they have chosen not to do.

On the other hand, even if there are civilizations who have both faster-than-light starships and faster-than-light communication methods, we won't be picking up any radio waves that prove they exist, because they probably don't use pokey stuff like that.

But if these poor aliens are stuck with using radio waves to communicate, they wouldn't bother beaming signals to us which take decades to arrive. If they have starships and want to say howdy to us — they'd just land in Washington like Klaatu did!

Since they haven't done that, they apparently choose not to drop in on folks who don't have starships or faster-than-light communication methods. (Again, the old Prime Directive.)

Therefore, here's the ironic conclusion.

It's pointless to sit here on Earth while we squint up at the stars and listen for faint radio signals that sound vaguely deliberate. The advanced aliens either don't exist, don't use radio waves, or choose not to visit us.

If we really want to know if we're alone in the universe, we're going to have to develop hyperdrive and FTL communications, and then go out and find our extraterrestrial neighbors.
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Gord Green]

In the early 1800's scientists said you couldn't travel faster than 35mph because all the air would move away from you and you couldn't breath.

In the late 1800's experts said man could never fly.

In the early 1900's some experts said you could never fly faster than the speed of sound and NEVER fly into space because there's no air for the propellers to work with!

Now we say hyperdrive, or EMdrive or whatever you want to call it, won't work.

The future will be stranger than we can even imagine it to be.

[Bud Brewster]

[Gord Green]

Of course not, Bud, but there WERE many "experts" who thought rockets were just toys and jets, although they were not fully developed, still needed atmosphere to operate.

Proponents of rocketry were few and thought of as "crackpot". It was through the developments of Robert Goddard in the US, Hermann Oberth, Von Braun and others in Germany, and Konstantin Eduardovich Tsiolkovsky in Russia, that the use of rockets became what it did become.

I'm only saying one generation thinks impossible what the next makes happen.

The human spirit is exponential.

Elements of Star Trek technology are becoming reality. You have to dream it to make it so.

Gord
Star Pirate

[MetroPolly]

I'm not sure if I ever mentioned this, but I'm not a fan of Star Trek.

That being said, the problem with the whole prime directive idea is that EVERYBODY would have to go along with it. Face it, we can't even get one species (us) to agree to something. It would only take one group to blow the whole deal.

[Bud Brewster]