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The Planck Photon Rocket

 
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:54 pm    Post subject: The Planck Photon Rocket Reply with quote

The Ultimate Limits of the Relativistic Rocket Equation - The Planck Photon Rocket (theoretical speculation)

If you can accelerate a particle close enough to lightspeed, then it collapses into a Planck blackhole, and that blackhole will almost instantly evaporate into gamma rays.

A paper looks at the ultimate limits of a photon propulsion rocket. The maximum velocity for a photon propulsion rocket is just below the speed of light and is a function of the reduced Compton wavelength of the heaviest subatomic particles in the rocket. We are basically combining the relativistic rocket equation with Haug's new insight in the maximum velocity for anything with rest mass. An interesting new finding is that in order to accelerate any sub-atomic "fundamental" particle to its maximum velocity, the particle rocket basically needs two Planck masses of initial load.

This might sound illogical until one understands that subatomic particles with different masses have different maximum velocities. This can be generalized to large rockets and gives us the maximum theoretical velocity of a fully efficient and ideal rocket. Further, no additional fuel is needed to accelerate a Planck mass particle to its maximum velocity; this also might sound absurd, but it has a very simple and logical solution that is explained in this paper.

The maximum amount of fuel needed for any fully-efficient particle rocket is equal to two Planck masses. This amount of fuel will bring any subatomic particle up to its maximum velocity. At this maximum velocity the subatomic particle will itself turn into a Planck mass particle and likely will explode into energy. Interestingly, we need no fuel to accelerate a fundamental particle that has a rest-mass equal to Planck mass up to its maximum velocity.

This is because the maximum velocity of a Planck mass particle is zero as observed from any reference frame. However, the Planck mass particle can only be at rest for an instant.

The Planck mass particle can be seen as the very turning point of two light particles; it exists when two light particles collide.

Haug's newly-introduced maximum mass velocity equation seems to be fully consistent with application to the relativistic rocket equation and it gives an important new insight into the ultimate limit of fully-efficient particle rockets.
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Brent Gair
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel compelled to say this:

I got a "C" in high school physics Smile.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I've done some reading about this theory to help me gain at least a small understanding of the concept.

I could be wrong, but I think one aspect of this idea is seems consistent with the (totally fictional) hyperdrive I described in chapter 2 of The Wishbone Express. Here's an excerpt that explains the way the hyperdrive works when the Wishbone is fleeing from several ships pursuing it.






The maneuver was made possible by the nature of hyperdrive itself.

The odd thing about hyperdrive was that it wasn't really a propulsion system. It was a kind of time machine. It altered the normal characteristics of relativity and the effect it had on any object moving at some fair percentage of light speed.

Under normal circumstances, as a moving object's velocity neared the speed of light, time slowed down and the object's mass increased. But hyperdrive countered this effect so that a spacecraft could actually travel thousands of times the speed of light, while time within the spacecraft passed at a normal rate and its mass did not turn it into the biggest fat lady in the universe.

Unfortunately, hyperdrive could not take full effect until a spacecraft had accelerated to 0.3896 of light speed. But even at speeds less than .0001 of light speed, a working hyperdrive would dramatically improve a spacecraft's power and maneuverability.

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Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the whole concept reflects a thinking "outside the box" approach to space travel propulsion and realizing the dream of inter-solar, interstellar propulsion.

No big physics education required to understand the above.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
No big physics education required to understand the above.

No, of course not!

I only read and re-read three articles on the subject and looked up numerous terms I wasn't familiar with because I wanted to be sure those rocket scientists hadn't made any typos!

We all know how good I am at spotting THOSE, eh? Rolling Eyes

It all boils down to this statement —
__________________________________

An interesting new finding is that in order to accelerate any sub-atomic "fundamental" particle to its maximum velocity, the particle rocket basically needs two Planck masses of initial load.
__________________________________

— which goes right over my head like a flock of geese headed South for Trump's Florida resort in Mar A Lago where I hope they'll poop on his head literally like they pooped on mine, figuratively! Sad

What I DID get from my hours of diligent brain-racking was that this is all about a propulsion system which can accelerate to 99% percent the speed of light (a bit higher with a good solar tailwind) without needing an infinite amount of reaction mass!

What I DIDN'T get is how this propulsion system can produce that much thrust with nothing coming out the ass-end of the damn thing but a stream of photos — which have fewer calories than Bud Light, and even less of the alleged great taste! Shocked

Seriously, can this wacky engine actually shine a light in one direction and race off at almost the speed of light in the other?

That makes as much sense (conventional wisdom-wise) as our brilliant Commander in Chief thinking that The Great Wall of Trump will prevent Mexicans from getting into rowboats and going around the damn thing on the East and West ends! Shocked

Sidebar: I'm seriously thinking of investing in two sites that rent rowboats in Mexicans, one site located just south of the Eastern Texas border and the other site just south of the Western California border. We'll provide fishing poles and plenty of beer to the Mexicans we rent the boats to, and the U.S. Border Patrol won't suspect a thing! Laughing



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Anyway, this new idea for a photon drive tickles my fancy 'till it begs for mercy, and I hope it turns out to be the ancestor of the hyperdrive for this lovely starship.



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Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:32 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In physics, the Planck mass, denoted by mP, is the unit of mass in the system of natural units known as Planck units. It is approximately 0.0217651 milligrams — about the mass of a flea egg.

That's the definition for non-physicists.

Particle physicists and cosmologists often use an alternative normalization with the reduced Planck mass.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very interesting possibility.

Photons do not have a reaction because they are without mass; that is the particle (or waveicle as it were) is a quantum packet missing the Higgs-Boson in it's quark package.

Accelerators like the one at Zern isolate and shoot sub atomic particles.

Suppose you were able to isolate and store Higgs- Bosons and insert them into photons which were then expelled from a source. The result would be the acceleration of the source to near light speeds!

The effect would be near light speed potential for a spacecraft and the ability to travel our entire solar system in hours.

A trip to Mars would be 30 minutes.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Well, all the articles I found back up your statement that photos don't have mass, but they also ponder the question of why they react to gravity and manage to push light sails if they're massless!

How can photons push a light sail and be pulled by gravity they they have no mass?

I think I'm WAY out of my depth in this matter.

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, the photons are not bent by gravity, the space they occupy is.

Second, Solar wind, like wind in our atmosphere is composed of a variety of particles.
Solar wind contains photons, yes, but also many other particles of radiation that DO contain mass.
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