ALL SCI-FI Forum Index ALL SCI-FI
The place to “find your people”.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

King Kong (1933)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Sci-Fi Movies and Serials from 1900 to 1949
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I've read descriptions of how preview audiences were supposedly horrified by the spider pit scene, and for that reason it was edited out of the movie.

I'm sure the folks who wrote those things believed that their sources were legitimate, but after all these years of hoping that the spider pit scene had been filmed and would someday be found, it's frustrating to realize that it was all just wishful thinking on our part. Sad

What this experience teaches us is that we have to weigh the real evidence that something we want to be true might really exists against our strong desire to believe anything that supports that belief.

We tend to believe whatever we want to be true. It's a sad fact of human nature.

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Krel
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the 70s, they used to go back and forth about the spider pit in the old "Famous Monsters" magazine. They had people that swore that they saw "King Kong" in other countries, the Philippines come to mind, and the spider pit scene was in that version.

There is also "The Black Scorpion", where I have always read that the subterranean cavern creatures were reused from the spider pit scene.

There will probably be people that claim the article is mistaken and the scene actually was filmed.

David.
Back to top
Gord Green
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 2940
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hum...Real physical evidence rather than just hearsay and opinion? That's an unimpeachable concept!
_________________
There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I seem to remember reading that some of the animation models in the cave scene from The Black Scorpion were created for the spider pit scene. Since O'Brien would probably have retained those models, it might be true.

If they were, I'm sure O'Brien had to repair them a bit after twenty years. The rubber would have deteriorated.

The Wikipedia article for The Black Scorpion has a few comments on the subject, but the info both encourages and discourages the notion that the models were created for King Kong. It even mentions the "decay" problem I just wrote about above! Very Happy
____________________________________________

The miniatures used for the trapdoor spider and the giant tentacled worm have been reported to be the same ones that were used in the now "Lost Spider Pit Sequence" from the original King Kong (1933). The trapdoor spider model matches precisely the smaller spider model seen in behind-the-scenes stills from King Kong.

Biographers, however, dispute whether O'Brien saved his models, and Ray Harryhausen's An Animated Life noted that many models used in Kong were still in storage at RKO in the 1950s, by which time many were decayed.

____________________________________________

The comment about the design similarities is easily explained by the fact the same person designed the one intended for Kong and the one later used in The Black Scorpion.

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Not only are these BTW stills wonderful, the music is great too! Very Happy


_________ Behind the Scenes Photos: King Kong


__________

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Johnnybear posed a fascinating question in the Might Joe Young thread, and I thought it needed to be shared here too as well. Here's the comment he made and the reply I offered.


johnnybear wrote:
Kong is able to climb the Empire State Building, but he can't just climb their wall? Think about it...

Johnny, I guess the two main differences between Kong climbing the Empire State Building and the native's wall was that the evenly-spaced window recessed into the Empire State Building were like the rungs on a giant ladder for Kong! And they were much deeper and sharp-edged than the tightly-fitted stones of the Skull Island wall.

Let's be fair here, folks — the face of this wall doesn't exactly look like an over-sized Monkey Bars, does it? Confused






But perhaps more importantly, Kong never had a strong reason to climb the wall! The natives didn't require "in-store pickup" . . . they always provided "curbside delivery"! Laughing
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3400
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some King Kong Fun Facts.

Producer Merian C.Cooper's vision was of a giant ape on top of the world's tallest building fighting airplanes. He then worked backwards from this image in order to develop the rest of the story.

The success of King Kong has been credited with saving R.K.O. Pictures from bankruptcy.

M.G.M. offered to purchase King Kong from RKO outright for the sum of one million dollars. They knew RKO was in deep financial trouble from having lost ten million dollars in 1932.
Little RKO wisely declined the much larger studio's offer.

King Kong doesn't appear on screen until 47-minutes into the movie.

Merian C.Cooper described the film when he was pitching it to actress Fay Wray by saying "You'll have the tallest, darkest leading man in Hollywood." Fay thought it would be Cary Grant.

As noted earlier, the jungle set was utilized for both King Kong & The Most Dangerous Game. Coincidentally, both films featured Fay Wray.

Only film to debut in the two largest theaters in NYC simultaneously: Radio City Music Hall & the Roxy.

The film originally came in at 13 reels. Merian C.Cooper was extremely superstitious about the number 13, he insisted another scene had to be shot in order to bring the movie at 14 reels. That scene was the elevated train sequence in NYC.

Executive Producer David O. Selznick was leaving RKO midway through the production of the movie. At this point the film was titled Kong. Selznick's last memo changed the title to King Kong.

King Kong's face on Skull Island is different from the one used in the NYC scenes. His island face was longer but filmmakers felt that it made the ape too human in appearance.

The battle between King Kong and the pterodactyl took seven weeks to shoot.

King Kong's roar was created via a combo of the roars of a lion and a tiger played backwards.

The Great Wall on Skull Island was a part of the Temple of Jerusalem set from the Cecil B. DeMille Biblical epic The King of Kings (1927).

The Great Wall was later redressed with Civil War-era building fronts for the epic burning of Atlanta scene from Gone With the Wind (1939).

King Kong's "official'' height is fifty-feet, but it is closer to nineteen-feet in the jungle scenes, twenty-five feet in the NYC scenes.

Every night, the King Kong models skins were removed in order for Marcel Delgado to tighten up the hinges on the metal armatures.

Alternative names for the film at various stages were: The Beast, The Eighth Wonder of the World, The Ape, King Ape, and Kong.

In 1991 King Kong was deemed ''culturally, historically, and aesthetically significant'' by the Library of Congress and selected for preservation in the National Film Registry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pow wrote:
The film originally came in at 13 reels. Merian C.Cooper was extremely superstitious about the number 13, he insisted another scene had to be shot in order to bring the movie at 14 reels. That scene was the elevated train sequence in NYC.

Wow, that elevated train sequence turned out to be more than just "filler" to extend the movie! Very Happy

The tragedy is portrayed with shocking realism, right down to the way the passenger are shown falling to the low end of the detailed train car and crushing each other.
Sad
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Maurice
Mission Specialist


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 460
Location: 3rd Rock

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick aside. I once saw Fay Wray in person. In 2000 she attended a screening of Erich Von Stroheim's The Wedding March (1928) at the San Francisco Silent Film Festival. She was just shy of 93.
_________________
* * *
"The absence of limitations is the enemy of art."
― Orson Welles
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Since All Sci-Fi's Saturday Live Chat (<— link) for today is this amazing movie, several interesting questions came to me that all fans of this great movie would love know the answers to.

These questions range from the technical to the whimsical — so be ready to have your "Kong Knowledge" tested by this fan-based intellectual exercise. Very Happy
________________________________

~ Was the giant spider scene actually photographed, or was only planed out . . . but never completed?

~ If the giant spider scene was included in the preview of King Kong, did it really frighten the audience so much that some of them left the theater?

~ If the giant spider scene was really filmed and included in the preview print, will a copy of it ever be discovered and shared with the world?

~ Would poor Ann Darrow be traumatized for the rest of her life by the horrible experience she suffered on the island and then in New York?

After all, she was in mortal fear for her life while being clutched in the hairy paw of a giant gorilla, as she was carried through a land filled with prehistoric beast!

And then she was carried by Kong to the top of the Empire State Building while airplanes blasted Kong with machine guns! Shocked

~ Is it possible that a "lost world" like Skull Island actually exist somewhere in the world today, hidden from the prying electronic eyes of our hi-tech satellites?

For example, in some region below the deep Antarctic ice, like in the movie The Land Unknown?










~ And could these future scientists actually create Skull Island in the remote Pacific by genetically engineering an oversized gorilla, and then cloning dinosaurs from DNA acquired by methods described in Jurassic Park? Shocked

~ Furthermore, could this team of future scientist actually clone Fay Wray and Robert Armstrong — and then use them in a Super 3D HD remake of this movie, which would be filmed on the Pacific island they created — populated by a genetically engineered, oversized gorilla and various cloned dinosaurs! Shocked

~ But wait! Could this genetically engineered giant gorilla also be transported from the island populated by cloned dinosaurs to the futuristic city of New York, just to promote this incredible remake of the 1933 classic?

And then could he possibly escape during his initial Broadway presentation? Shocked

~ Folks, we can only hope that this Genetically Engineered Kloned Kong would not carry the poor cloned Fay Wray to the top of the Empire State Building and then battle a fleet of futuristic helicopters which battled valiantly to save the lovely lady, while also sparing the life of the misguided and amorously inclined genetically engineer giant gorilla! Shocked
________________________________

Gentlemen of All Sci-Fi, do any of you doubt that I've just described the perfect 22nd Century remake of this immortal classic? Confused

If you disagree . . . I challenge you to present a better idea! :shocK:

_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

___________________________________________________________________

SEVERAL ARTICLES ABOUT THE LOST SPIDER-PIT SCENE
___________________________________________________________________



Here are excerpts from interesting articles about what happened to the legendary spider pit scene.
_______________________________________________

DID THE "KONG" SPIDER-PIT SCENE EXIST?

By KRT
Chicago Tribune Jan 13, 2006

A Ft. Lauderdale comic-book collector says he has proof the spider-pit scene rumored to be missing from the original 1933 "King Kong" was never shot.

Warren Reece, owner of Chamber of Fantasy, has a leather-bound, 1932 copy of director Merian Cooper's "King Kong" script, given to James Creelman, a co-writer of the original film.

The script has typed production notes indicating which scenes were shot and which weren't. It shows the spider-pit scene was not filmed. "They made sketches of it, but it was never shot," Reece said.

For decades, film lovers and King Kong fans alike have been looking for the spider-pit scene.





________________________________________________

THE MYSTERY OF THE LOST SPIDER PIT SEQUENCE

from FICTOSPHERE ENTERTAINMENT
_______________________________________________

Merian C. Cooper’s 1933 monster masterpiece King Kong came under the knife of censors when it was re-released in 1938, but all of the scenes that were removed at that time have been since restored and reinserted. Even so, Kong is still missing one very infamous scene–not by act of censorship, but by design.

We know from the script and from the novelization that the scene was written, and we know from concept art that the scene was planned. We even know from a production still discovered by Famous Monsters of Filmland mogul Forrest J. Ackerman that the scene was staged, at least for promotional purposes.

Thankfully, there’s a good deal of evidence for the existence of this scene in addition to that which I’ve already stated. First, both Merian C. Cooper and Willis O’Brien acknowledge that the sequence was filmed (more on this later).



__________


This alone should put the question to rest, but if that weren’t enough for you, several shots believed to be uncovered from O’Brien’s personal archives exist, including those that show puppets for the sailors and other monsters. This information (which, to be fair, has only come out within the last ten years) has made it abundantly clear to many that this scene was, indeed, filmed.







It’s difficult to say exactly when the sequence became lost. According to Willis O’Brien, shortly after filming the sequence — which he himself thought was his best work — Merian C. Cooper watched the scene (probably as part of one of the dailies), decided that it slowed the pacing of the film, and he destroyed it pretty much right then and there.






[i


The second story of how and when the scene became lost comes from Merian C. Cooper. Apparently, audiences who saw the scene during a preview showing of Kong were so shocked by the violence that some left the theater and others wouldn’t stop talking about it during the rest of the film. Cooper decided at that point that the scene negatively impacted the pace of the film, and took it upon himself to remove it from the print.
____________________________________________

LOST TREASURES: KING KONG SPIDER PIT SEQUENCE

by David Rosler

FIR's own Glenn Andreiev asked me what lost movies or near-lost need to be recovered and found specifically from a special effects point of view. This short article is my opinion and my answer.






For those of us who write, produce and direct having started careers in animation and special effects — there are more of us than you might think — the list of lost movies crying to be found and restored is almost endless. Their collective silent voice pleading to be rescued from the darkness of time is nearly painful to contemplate — and that's why I am such a fan of Glenn's efforts to document and make more popular the need for restoration.

To the special effects fanboy in me — that 10-year-old that refuses to vanish from my character despite every attempt I could think of to dispel that rascal - like so many others, including many noted film historians, the Holy Grail of lost footage is, of course, the Spider Pit sequence in the original King Kong (1933).






The official story about how the spider pit scene went missing is that producer/co-director Cooper had the film of the pit scene burned.

While it is possible he gave the order to burn it, it seems impossible to believe that that order was fully carried out. If it slowed the film, then that means it would have been cut into the film for screenings, and if the scene was that far along as part of the process, it is doubtful that it was burned and instead someone quietly took it home.






I have been part of too many movies back in the 35mm-only film days in which crew members absconded with mementos of the project lifted the editors' scrap bins to think that that a scene of such probable power was just destroyed. After all, previously unknown stills existed, surfacing after over 30 years.

So many supposedly lost films have been found and restored, things assumed lost for over 100 years.

Is the "Spider Pit" out there, somewhere; crumbling, with the fading words, "RKO, Cheesman, 'SPIDERS'" written on a slip of paper affixed to a smallish, rusting can, in an attic, a basement or a shelf in some cabinet of curiosities?






If we can never find it, the next best thing we can do to honor the achievement of those brilliant and amazingly dedicated artists is to never lose sight of the lesson they taught us as they created a lasting monument to imagination with equipment that is now literally antique: "art overshadows technology".
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3400
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great photos, Bud, and research into one of the mysteries of this legendary film.

One of the saddest aspects to the movie industry is all of the lost films, or portions of films, that are missing.

Then again, there's always hope that some may one day be recovered.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gord Green
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 2940
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud, awesome research! This is just the kind of posting that attracted me to ASF in the first place!

Good job buddy!


_________________
There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17016
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Guys! I had a blast creating it.

The fact that you two enjoyed it is reward enough for me. Naturally we'd all like for there to be more active members on All Sci-Fi. But it occurred to me today that one of the big differences. between 2022 and (for example) 2012 — when we had 261 members, with about 20 active ones — is that back then, many people we're using desk tops and lap tops.

But today most folks are using tablets and smart phones! The rise of technology in that area has actually discourage people from expressing themselves in a literate manner.

BTW, I hate those abbreviations they use! I mean, WFT, are people to busy to write coherent messages? IMO, that's just plane lazy. If you're going to send a MSG to tell somebody to STFU, just spell it out, dammit!

OMG, B4 you know it, people will stop speaking English. And I think we should have a moment of silence for the extinction of punctuation, paragraphs, and literacy in general. Rolling Eyes

Well, THX for listening to my rant, my loyal BFFs! I feel better now.
LOL.
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pow
Galactic Ambassador


Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 3400
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Special Effects, the History and Technique, by Richard Rickitt.

Born in Oakland, California, the young Willis O'Brien (1886~1962) worked as a marble cutter, cowboy, prize fighter and cartoonist for the San Francisco Daily News before being hired to create sculptures for the 1913 San Francisco World Fair.

While preparing some small clay figures for an exhibit on boxing, O'Brien carried out an experiment that would change both his life and the course of cinematic history.

Using a borrowed newsreel camera, O'Brien moved the clay pugilists a fraction at a time before exposing each frame of film. When the film was developed, O'Brien saw a jerky, spasmodic boxing match in miniature.

The images were not perfect, but O'Brien had created life where there had been none.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ALL SCI-FI Forum Index -> Sci-Fi Movies and Serials from 1900 to 1949 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group