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UFO Report due June 1st
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Agreed, sir! Some folks simply "can't handle the truth!" Very Happy

Hopefully we here at All Sci-Fi definitely CAN handle it . . . and we love nothing better than the chance to do exactly that!
Shocked
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few points I'd like to make...and address them to the logical thinking, rational readers on this message site.

First....It has been "leaked" that the response from the intelligence community will admit that UFOs or UAOs or whatever you designate them, are REAL physical objects that defy physics in their operation, but that they have NO idea what they are or who is responsible for them. They swarm around military assets and Nuclear facilities but they have no information as to what they may be!

Oh...but don't fear..."They are not a threat to National security".

Really?????

I know, Bud, you've stated that you don't really care who they are or what they're up to.

Really????

I've always found the best way to understand an argument is to reduce it to simpler similes. Think about this...

What if I told you that "every so often" "somebody" comes up to your house and peeks in the windows and watches you. If you notice them they run away and you can't see where they've gone. You say that you don't really care who they are or why they're watching you. Really????

How about...Suppose you're a Military Policeman assigned to guard a perimeter. Your CO tells you that while on your watch "someone" violated that area and did some undetermined action. Would you respond by saying " I don't know who it was and I don't care!" Really????

I don't think so. I'm saying that IF what we're about to hear amounts to this....We're spending a hell of a lot of money trying to defend our Nation to a bunch of ineffectual "experts".

We shall see what is revealed....but I'm not holding my breath!

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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.
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Bud Brewster
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Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

_______________________________________

Gord, I certainly never meant to imply that I "don't really care who they are or what they're up to ". However, I did say this.


Bud Brewster wrote:
And yet, all these years of UFO evidence presents us with no reason to believe that aliens have any serious interest in contacting mankind on a direct basis.

UFOs might be alien spacecraft, but if we're no good to them . . . what good are they to us? Confused

Please let me clarify.

I simply meant that if UFOs are alien spacecraft, they don't seem to care about US. They just observe dispassionately, but they never interact in a significant way. And if that's the case, perhaps we have nothing to worry about.

Apparently the government has come to the same conclusion. because they've stated that the UFOs are not a threat.

But I am VERY interested in what they are . . . especially in view of my feeling that they aren't alien spacecraft, because of the reasons I described earlier. Like the 1956 movie states at the end . . .

If they cannot be identified as objects known to man . . .

What are they?

If they are not man-made . . .

Who made them?

If they are not from this planet . . .

Where are they from?

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Morbius
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After all these years, all the sightings, (possibly recovered craft?) I find it hard to believe that the government is still ignorant about the UFOs or at least their origins. Rather I think the government has a scheduled plan of disclosure. First is an admission of the reality. Maybe in a few years more tid bits. The recent admissions are a trial balloon (no pun) to test public reaction, more to come depending on whether the public can indeed “Handle the Truth”.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Morbius, I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of that myself! It makes perfect sense. Embarassed

It addresses every objection I've raised (except for the light-speed limit), such as the way UFO's haven't contacted us (but they have . . .), the way they zip around with no apparent purpose (but we've only heard part of the stories . . . ), and the fact that the craft seem too small to be interstellar vehicles (because we're only seeing drones, and big ones have stealth capabilities . . . ).

What shocked me when I read your comment, Morbius, is that it's based on the classic notion that mankind isn't ready to be told about the existence of advance alien races because "it would panic the public!"

Silly me — I've never accept that idea! But it doesn't matter what I think about it, if the government is convinced of this, then they would do exactly as you described! Shocked

And it fits in perfectly with a carefully crafted government strategy to gradually condition the crazy, gullible public — those moronic folks who panic at the thought of stolen federal elections, and who don't believe in global warming, and who scoff at pandemic they think is a hoax! Rolling Eyes

The last four years has drastically lowered my opinion of America's collective intelligence. Sad


Because of this, I'm now ready to accept the sad fact that Americans might indeed need to be treated like frightened children rather than adults who can accept the idea that alien beings with advanced technology have visited Earth.

Morbius, you've opened my eyes and humbled my soul. I salute you, sir, as a worthy member of the human race who is ready to greet our new friends from stars! Cool

Ummm . . . could you please put in a good word for me? Confused

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I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. Only way to be sure.
~ Corporal Hicks
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Bud Brewster
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Morbius, I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of that myself! It makes perfect sense. Embarassed

It addresses every objection I've raised (except for the light-speed limit), such as the way UFO's haven't contacted us (but they have . . .), the way they zip around with no apparent purpose (but we've only heard part of the stories . . . ), and the fact that the craft seem too small to be interstellar vehicles (because we're only seeing drones, and the big ones have stealth capabilities).

What shocked me when I read your comment, Morbius, is that it's based on the classic notion that mankind isn't ready to be told about the existence of advance alien races because "it would panic the public!"

Silly me — I've never accept that idea! But it doesn't matter what I think about it, if the government is convinced of this, then they would do exactly as you described! Shocked

And it fits in perfectly with a carefully crafted government strategy to gradually condition the crazy, gullible public — those moronic folks who panic at the thought of a stolen federal election. The fools who don't believe in global warming. The idiots who scoff at a pandemic they think is a hoax! Rolling Eyes

The last four years has drastically lowered my opinion of America's collective intelligence. Sad

Because of this, I'm now ready to accept the sad fact that Americans might indeed need to be treated like frightened children, rather than adults who can accept the idea that alien beings with advanced technology have visited Earth.

Morbius, you've opened my eyes and humbled my soul. I salute you, sir, as a worthy member of the human race who is ready to greet our new friends from stars! Cool

Ummm . . . and could you please put in a good word for me? Confused

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I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. Only way to be sure.
~ Corporal Hicks
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Gord Green
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Joined: 06 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud, I apologize if I misunderstood your previous comments. This is a sensitive topic for me as I had a "close encounter" myself in the early 80's. I don't talk about it much but it changed my outlook quite a bit.

In the early 80's we lived in Carmel NY, a little town located just off route 84 between the Taconic Expressway to the west and Danbury Conn. on the east. It was on a late October evening just after dusk when I saw the object just past the Rt84 overpass.

Cars on the highway were stopped and I saw people standing by their cars looking at what I first saw as a very bright light above and just to the north of the road. I knew that the area the light was in was just wooded fields with no homes or anything in the area. My thought at the time was that some kind of major construction work was being done as the light was as bright as a baseball field in a night game!

As I passed under the overpass the object came into full view. It was a huge circular object rolling through the sky just to the north side of the highway. It was about 300 feet in the air and it was about 300 feet in diameter. There were lights around the circumfrence and I could see details and constructions underneath. I got out of my truck and watched it. As it "rolled" to the East it was completely silent. It continued until it passed out of my view. I viewed it for well over five minutes.

The next day local radio and news were full of reports of the sighting including reports from Police and State Troopers.

The following article from PLANE AND PILOT gives an overview of the issue :
-------------------------------------
https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/news/pilot-talk/2021/02/24/ufo-swarms-of-the-hudson-valley/

UFO Swarms Of The Hudson Valley

A mid-’80s outbreak of mystery craft by hundreds of people continues to defy explanation.

By Desiree Kocis

Mystery

In the 1980s, thousands of witnesses observed an eerily silent, boomerang-shaped aircraft flying low across the Hudson Valley. Was this a genuine UFO or a cleverly executed hoax?

Background

Between 1982 and 1986, New York’s Hudson River Valley—a place home to many well-educated, well-respected families—became ground zero for a series of extraordinary UFO sightings.

It all started a few minutes before midnight on New Year’s Eve 1982, when a retired New York City police officer stepped outside his home to clean up some broken glass. Just as he was about to bend down, a bright array of lights caught his attention from above a nearby treeline.

Gradually, a large, V-shaped aircraft, about the size of a football field, came into view. Slowly and silently, it crept over his house, a mere few hundred feet above the ground.
Speckled along its edges were red, blue and green lights, and a bright white light beamed down from its center. He and his son followed the light as it illuminated their yard, until, eventually, the aircraft drifted from view.

The following year, an officer with the Yorktown Police Department witnessed a similar aircraft, also hovering quite low. He watched it for a few minutes until it banked, made a 45-degree turn and quickly sped off into the horizon.

He put a call in to Stewart Air Force Base in Newburgh to see if one of its C-5 transport planes had been airborne that night. None had.

It was soon seen again, this time hovering over a long stretch of New York’s Taconic Parkway. Dozens stopped to watch the bizarre phenomenon, backing traffic up for miles.

Witnesses said it looked like a giant floating city. Again, a white light was observed beaming down from its center. The silence of the aircraft was unsettling, and the slowness with which it crept, a mere 3-5 mph, was quite stunning.
Over the years, the number of witnesses piled into the thousands. On some nights, calls to 911 were so frequent that the lines became jammed.

What was happening in Hudson Valley? Were these genuine UFO sightings, or was someone perhaps having just a bit of fun?

Hoaxster Pilots?

According to a New York Times article published Aug. 25, 1984, officials at the time claimed the “UFO” was simply a cleverly executed hoax. To them, the only thing unidentified about the flying object was the culprit behind it, alleging it was formed by five to six pilots flying in tight formation.

One officer claims to have followed the V-shaped lights to the Stormville Airport. There, he says, he observed a group of small, single-engine planes flying in close formation with their undersides painted black, perhaps to keep them from being visible from the ground. The aircraft were rigged with bright lights of alternating colors.

On another night, a pilot in the area claimed to have followed the lights to the parking area of Sky Acres Airport. When he exited his vehicle, he said that he could hear their engines as well as the voices of pilots shouting back and forth to each other.

When he looked up, he saw a large group of ultralights in tight formation, with a single light hanging below each. This, he claims, was the real “UFO.”

Genuine UFO?

Another pilot, this one with thousands of flight hours and plenty of formation experience in high-performance jets, called the hoax explanation pure garbage. He, too, witnessed the UFO and claims there was no way ultralight pilots could have maintained their positions relative to each other in the way he observed, nor could they have remained in the sky at such slow speeds.

A group of ultralights would have likely sounded like a sea of lawnmowers buzzing through the sky, yet the silence he heard was deafening.

Additionally, the aircraft’s structure was clearly visible, appearing as a single, metallic mass. This, he and thousands of others say, was a genuine UFO.

UFOs And Hoaxsters

“I saw something strange in the sky, but it wasn’t the same thing I saw a week before.”
According to another witness, what he observed one night was quite different from what he observed a week later. On the first night, he watched as a single, rigid entity moved low and slow above him, while on the second night what he saw was quite obviously multiple aircraft attempting to move in unison.

Others agreed. Many of the witnesses claimed that the earlier sightings were, without a doubt, a single UFO, while the latter were quite obviously a group of pilots trying to pull a prank.

Top-Secret Aircraft

If there’s one thing the U.S. Air Force loves doing, it’s building really cool triangles that fly—the eerily silent B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, the subsonic TR-3A Black Manta spy plane, the F-117 Nighthawk stealth attack aircraft, to name a few.

Perhaps this “UFO” was one of their super-secret flying triangles? While anything is possible, of course, it just seems a bit not-so-secrety to test fly such an aircraft where thousands could so easily witness it. It also seems a bit counter-productive to cover it in a sea of bright lights. And, to state the obvious, one of them can hover.

Conclusion

In 1992, “Unsolved Mysteries” covered the Hudson Valley UFO story. This led to a group of pilots attempting to claim responsibility. When Robert Stack’s team reached out for them to recreate the flight, however, the pilots went off radar. Without having witnessed the so-called UFO in person, anyone could easily write it off as a hoax—one likely involving multiple groups of pilots, some better at pulling the stunt off than others.

But because of the fact that so many credible witnesses are so passionately adamant that what they observed was a single, visible structure, the door to this mystery must remain ajar.

Maybe, just maybe, what Hudson Valley experienced wasn’t only a hoax but a genuine UFO.

Then the question becomes, where did it come from?

-----------------------------------------

Just a few additional comments from me....

There WERE photos of the object ….



This is a pair of artist illustrations that are pretty accurate in their depictions :





We also saw the Hoaxter planes on occasion. Problem is they usually flew around dusk, never in night and they DID sound like a bunch of lawnmowers!



Funny thing is NONE of the pilots were ever found and no one was ever charged with gross violations of FAA regulations. Were these really a bunch of pilots acting on their own or was it a planned attempt at "misdirection"? In any consideration it could lead into a "Conspiracy theory" of government intent to "debunk" the sightings.

The week after the sighting I had a conference was held at the local middle school attended by Dr. Hynek.



There were other reports in the local media.



Further there were national mentions of the sightings and a book was written by Dr. Hynek.



So....I have NO doubt about the existence of UFOs as real constructed physical devices.

As Arthur C. Clarke famously said, "Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying,".
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Morbius
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing that information about the Housatonic flap. Speaking of Highway 84 I lived in Connecticut before the highway went through Waterbury. It was scheduled to go through our kitchen. This is when I learned about eminent domain. But many years before (circa early 50s) as a small child, guessing about five or six years old I was playing outside. At that time on TV there were a lot of cowboy and indian shows. My mom had made a cowboy outfit for me complete with dual six guns on a holster belt. My street was not paved with only a few houses.

Across from my house was a three-story stucco house with rentals. There was a sidewalk alongside this house and I clearly remember walking down the sidewalk in my cowboy uniform and I stopped. I had the strange feeling that somebody was looking at me. I decided to look up and in view just clear of the roof line was what I thought was an arrow. I watched it for what seemed like a while but it just remained stationary. There weren’t a lot of airplanes or helicopters flying around back then. It looked like a rocketship but my kid brain interpreted it as an arrow. I was confused because it was stationary.

After gazing at it for some time I purposely looked down at the sidewalk and then up again and it was gone. I was a little confused as I knew that arrows generally flew through the air. I went home and told my mother that I saw an arrow, and of course there I was playing cowboys and indians so she didn’t think too much of it and went back to kitchen activities.

It wasn’t until several years later I realized I had seen a UFO more of the cigar shape that disk.

In the early 80s I went to a popular outdoor park in Savannah Georgia which had facilities for exercising and running. It was early in the morning, December, around 5:00 AM. I was on a section of grass, stretching, about to go for a run. Again, I had the strange feeling that I was being watched. I looked up and it was a bright starry morning. Wintertime humidity is low and the stars were exceptionally bright. But I noticed some stars blinking off and then back on. As I continued to concentrate, I noticed that it was in the shape of a V. It was directly overhead moving very slowly. Then one “wing” of the V remained stationary and the whole craft made a pivot with the left-wing anchored. It then made a complete 180 degree turn and proceeded in the direction from whence it came, slowly. Then to my amazement a series of square lights in the front of the craft came on momentarily and then off. After that I just went home trying to understand the experience. I thought perhaps it could be military but I could not understand how the flight characteristics of a possible lighter than air craft would be in the shape of a V. Why do that. It was too slow to be the stealth bomber. I’m sure no one else saw this?
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ralfy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debunking video from thunderf00t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th4VlqQyVr4
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Morbius
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ralfy wrote:
Debunking video from thunderf00t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th4VlqQyVr4

But why would the Navy publicly promote its own stupidity?
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Gord, my very good friend, I accept your apology. Very Happy

And please accept my thanks for several interesting post you've inspired which have enhanced All Sci-Fi and stimulated a great discussion! Very Happy

As for my position on the UFO phenomenon, I'll state for the record again that I'm just as fascinated by it as anyone here.

But I'm withholding my judgement as to what it all means until we have more evidence. This is a mystery which has defied explanation — but which tempts the minds of intelligent individuals like us to conclude that it proves we are not alone in the universe!

Unfortunately, just because that's what we want it to mean doesn't make it the truth. As intelligent people who are devoted to truth and logic, we should not leap to conclusions just because they appeal to our emotions. Confused

As I stated above, I do in fact care what UFOs are — perhaps even more than the people who have already decided that they're alien spaceships, despite the possibility that they're something much different!

Gentlemen, please don't ignore the evidence that UFOs are not what the popular theories claim. As sci-fi enthusiast, we've seen concepts which offer many other explanations for this phenomenon — such as time travel and parallel universes. Cool

After all, this is ALL Sci-Fi — not SOME Sci-Fi. Shocked

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I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. Only way to be sure.
~ Corporal Hicks


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Morbius
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of "Tales from a Parallel Universe"
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