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Forbidden Planet (1956)
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
I think we figured out that the "extension" was part of Morbius's lab and the entrance to the Krell tunnel leading to the Krell lab, therefore it would have to abut a rockface

Well, we certainly did our best to figure out a way to make the matte painting fit the interior floor plan, along with the fact that Morbius' study is on the same level as both the tunnel and the Krell lab.





And we know from preproduction sketches that the house was supposed to butt up against a large cliff. The Krell lab (along with the Krell machine down below it) were inside the mountain.







Actually, the door to the Krell lab is about three feet higher than the floor of the tunnel — although there are several steps leading down into the Krell lab itself.







So, the tunnel and the lab are definitely on the same level as the floor of the house itself.

In the matte painting, the rectangular extension from the Morbius residence comes straight out from the house, and the end of it is a significant distance from the large rock outcropping in the foreground, with plenty of vegetation growing between the two.








Therefore, there's no way it could be Morbius' study, because the study has a tunnel that leads directly into the rocks, whereas the matte painting makes no effort to show the house as being built against a cliff.

Besides that, the extension has a support structure under the end furthest from house — and yet it appears to be open between the house and that structure. The sunlight is shining directly onto the side of the support structure, so if there was anything else under the extension (like Morbius' study), we'd be able to see at least some hint of it.






On a related note, I must admit that a close examination of the matte painting reveals that the four arches to the right of the extension do indeed go farther from the house than I'd previously thought. Very Happy

The patio seems to extend out just as far from the house as the end of the "rectangular extension's" supporting structure, and the base of the arches are at the outer edge of the patio.

Until today I'd thought the arches only went about halfway across the patio. Rolling Eyes

I'm not sure if the artist intended for that "patio" to be the road, which would run under the arches and the extension. But obviously the gentleman's homemade model of the house in the YouTube video you posted, Gord, isn't quite as exaggerated in that respect as I thought! Shocked

Obviously he put more than just "a lot of love" into his model — he also did his homework and noticed a few things I've been missing! Very Happy

However, the fact that the wide "patio" actually could serve as the road which Robby's jeep uses — based on it's width and the fact that no other part of the road shows in the painting — makes me wonder if we really ARE seeing the front of the house.

As I've often said, the "extension" resembles a breezeway similar to the structures erected over the main entrances of many buildings to shelter vehicles in bad weather.

Therefore, the main entrance would be under the extension/breezeway. And that's what I've assumed it was since 1956. Very Happy

After all, everything I've stated above proves that the interior set of the house in the film is completely different from the matte painting of the exterior.

For that reason, I believe that just because there's no evidence of a "breezeway" in the shots of the jeep at the front entrance of the house set








— we shouldn't simply assume that the extension/breezeway in the painting was NOT intended to be the front entrance of the house by matte artist Henri Hillinck!

I'm basing all this on the obvious fact that since the house in the matte painting is so different from the house's interior set used in the movie, there's almost no commonality between the two. Sad

Obviously the two versions of the house must be analyzed separately — without trying to meld the two into one consistent interpretation.

But hey . . . that's just my opinion, my friend. Obviously we'll never know what matte artist Henri Hillinck really had in mind.

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I can't help wishing that Mr. Henri Hillinck had been instructed by art director Arthur Lonergan to place the house in direct contact with a large cliff so that it would agree with the way the house was intended to look, and the way the set was designed.

If Mr. Hillinck had done that, the matte painting wouldn't have looked quite like this screen shot from the movie —






— it would have looked more like this modified version I created. Cool





The wing of the house on the right side would connect with the rock face, and Morbius's study would include the tunnel which led directly to the Krel lab.





This configuration also places the pool where it should be, according to the house's floor plan for the set. It would be at the left-rear of the house, opposite the main entrance — which is the breezeway/extension at the left-front of the house.

The unique shot below from the movie shows both the front entrance on the left (next to Robby) and the pool entrance on the right.






This 3D diagram of the floor plan shows that Morbius' study (on the right) is on the opposite side of the house from the pool, with the main entrance between the two.






This agrees (roughly) with the modified version of the matte painting shown above.

Notice that in the 3D floor plan, the road passes close to the simplified "rock face" which contains the tunnel. This too agrees roughly with the modified painting if we assume that the road to the house is hidden by the trees on the far right.






The road would lead directly to the right end the "patio" at the front of the house. Robby's jeep would pass under the four arches attached to the house and then stop under the breezeway at the front entrance.

Naturally we all know that the "movie version" of the jeep's arrival differs greatly from the description above, because the set and the painting present two very different designs for the Morbius home.




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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Krel
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the bottom photo, the front of the house is located between two rock faces, which could place Morbius's study in the rock. Something that is not seen in the matt painting.

David.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krel wrote:
Look at the bottom photo, the front of the house is located between two rock faces, which could place Morbius's study in the rock. Something that is not seen in the matte painting.

You're absolutely correct, sir! The matte painting (even my modified version) is VASTLY different from the actual set.

As you pointed out, the rock outcropping on the left side of the house in the "arrival" screenshot above is not shown in the matte painting, nor is the mountain which Morbius's study is connect to on the opposite side of the house.

The rock we see on the right in the screen-shot is actually just a small outcropping near the front entrance, shown in the 3D floor plan as the brown roundish shape right outside the wall of Morbius' study.

The official blueprints for the house set has a note next it that says, "Rock On Rollers".

So, they could wheel it onto the sound stage and pile stuff around the bottom to hide the gap! Very Happy






Anyway, Mr. Hillinck's painting is very different from the way it should look to portray the house as it was built for the movie set. The house is actually sandwiched between two rock faces — whereas the painting includes neither of these . . .

. . . until I modified it and placed it against the mountain, which fixed one of the two omissions. Very Happy




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~ The Space Children (1958)


Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the matte painting is not necessarily architecturaly absolutely accurate to the studio blueprint....It is close enough! All the essentials are there and relatively in the right places.



What we take as a "breezeway" may just be a roof over the rock passage to the lab. Perhaps not. The painting was done more for the visual effect than absolute accuracy.

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
While the matte painting is not necessarily architecturally absolutely accurate to the studio blueprint . . . it is close enough!

All the essentials are there and relatively in the right places.

Gord, my very good friend — I desperately hope you'll permit me to speak frankly without offending you. Sad

You must understand that the painting was done with absolutely no consideration for the plans which the producers of this movie had concerning the Morbius house. I'm basing this statement on the blueprints and the floor plan of the house itself.

It's very obvious that anything in Henri Hillink's painting which resembled the actual design of the house set was a mere coincidence! Mr. Hillinck had his own ideas about the house, and he expressed them without knowing what the house would actually look like in the movie.

My comments above pertain exclusively to Hillinck's original ideas for the design of the house. I attempted to apply the events in the movie to his painting of the house in the modified version I created. I think I came up with some good ideas. Very Happy

Gord, please understand that we can't logically meld the two separate versions of the house the way you want to do. The two versions were conceived independently . . . and without any cooperation between the two creative agencies! Sad

My modified matte painting brought the two versions somewhat closer together — but even then the painting bears little resemblance to the set in the movie.

The studio designed the Moribius house without telling Henri Hillinck what the painting was supposed to look like so that he would create a version that matched the one on the movie.

Henri's painting is beautiful . . . but it does not in any way match the version of the house's interior we see in the film!

Gord, I certainly hope I haven't offended you. Sad

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Bud.....I think we can come to a reasonable solution here.

Hop in your "jeep" and head to the edge of the desert...



Stop into my little "home away from home"....



Come into my front parlor....



Enjoy the great view of my garden...



We'll have a few libations to ease the tensions...Specially prepared by Robby!



When I inquired of Robby if we should persue our architectural discussion.... He replied....



So....We'll just "chill out" and enjoy the ambiance of Altair-4!

My "brother from another mother" and just good friend!

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I agreed wholeheartedly! Very Happy

I think a mature person should always be man enough to admit when somebody else is wrong! Very Happy

(Wait, that didn't come out right . . . Embarassed)

I mean, a mature person should be able to admit to somebody else when he's wrong. Cool

(That was either an example of my typoholism or a Freudian slip. Rolling Eyes)

Hey, that "land speeder" Robby is driving is tee-riffic! If I was in charge of a Forbidden Planet remake which stuck VERY close to the original, I wouldn't mind introducing a few design enhancements, like making the saucer and tractor look like this —





(Click on the image to see the 1214 pixel wide version.)

— and making the house exterior agree with the interior. Very Happy (Oops, sorry! Sigmund strikes again . . . Embarassed)

But as far as Robby's jeep goes, I'd love to see the version you posted above, with wheels that retract when traveling at high speed over rough terrain — which is practically everywhere on Altair 4!

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well....I didn't exactly say I was wrong. I just invited you over for lunch and a few drinks.

Have another glass of Rocket Bourbon and pull up your chair for a light repast.



Altaria has set a neat table for us.



She has such great taste in settings and design!



And , of course we'll start with a wonderful selection of Altairian fruits!

Like I said....I don't care if you came in from the front door or the back door....just chill out bro!

Enjoy the ambiance that Altair - Four has to offer!!


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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.


Last edited by Gord Green on Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:46 am; edited 3 times in total
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...What do you think the BELLERAPHON looked like?

Twenty years older than the C-57-d, but using basicly the same technology. We can presume a "similar" design.

Maybe something like this...









Perhaps a bit smaller in size. We don't really know the size of the crew but we do know that it was primarily an exploration and science mission, not military like Adam's ship.

Any thoughts???

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Krel
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bellerophon Expedition was composed of about 20 personnel judging by the graves and the conversation. As it was "prospecting Scientists", it was not a colonizing mission, but most probably one to judge the planet's fitness for colonization.

A while back, we had a fun discussion on what the expedition would have needed to carry to survey the planet for an unknown length of time. I think the Bellerophon would have needed to be a large ship to carry the supplies, gear and exploration vehicles..

Irving Block in at least one of his concept paintings had Robby's vehicle be a hover vehicle.

David.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you can see there were only 9 graves...at least until Robby brought "Doc" Ostrow out to bury him . (Hey...He was programmed to do it!}. Or...That may be the body of Morbius to be laid to rest beside his wifes' grave.

So the BELLERAPHON's complement may have been as small as just ten individuals.



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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.


Last edited by Gord Green on Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krell said :
Quote:
Irving Block in at least one of his concept paintings had Robby's vehicle be a hover vehicle.

Like this...,


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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Wow, Gord! Where did you find that amazing painting of Robby caring a body up to the graveyard?

It is beautiful! Very Happy

However, I seriously doubt that it's Dr. Ostrow's body, simply because Robby said, "I will place him in the tractor, sir," as he carried the body out of the living room.

Your comment inspired me to analyze the series of events which occurred in the climax of the movie. Here's what happened.

Just before Morbius dies in the lab, Command Adams and Altaira are told that they have 24 hours to be clear of Altair-4's explosion. (After they're aboard the ship we're told that the C-57-D barely makes it to the safe distance in time!)

When John and Altaira fled from the house, they would have used Robby and his speedy Jeep to transport them quickly to the C-57-D. (Robby wouldn't have fit into the tractor, anyway!)

For this reason, poor Dr. Ostrow's body would have been left inside the tractor at the Morbius home.

That's what I think happened, Gord.

However, what you seem to be suggesting is that Robby carried the body of Ostrow to the graveyard at dawn the next morning and buried him before the ship lifted off.

My question is . . . what would be the point? Shocked

After all, when Altair 4 exploded, both Ostrow and Morbius would receive a very effective "cremation" just by being left on the planet.

Therefore, why the heck would Robby have wasted time burying either of the two bodies in a graveyard that would soon have ceased to exist?

And of course, Robby's burials of the men would have used up valuable time which the C-57-D needed to reach the safe distance (one-hundred million miles from Altair 4) to escape the explosion.

On the other hand . . . this brand new thought just came to me!

Perhaps the body Robby is carrying is one of the Bellerophon crewmen who was buried in several graves on the far side of hill!

No, wait a minute. By gum, that doesn't work either . . . for several reasons! Sad

Morbius tells Adams that "Twenty years ago I dug those graves with my own hands . . . " And we can't be sure Robby was created before the Bellerophon crew died.

More importantly, perhaps, is the fact that the Bellerophon "vaporized when the last three crewmen tried to lift her off." So, we have to include those three people among the ship's crew, despite the fact that their bodies were obliterated.

Then again, Morbius may have erected gravestones for the vaporized crewmen.

However, if I were Morbius — a man living on an alien planet with his lonely (probably pregnant) wife — I think I'd focus my attention on more import things than the creation of elaborate monuments for dead people who didn't even have remains! Shocked

Hey . . . that brings up an important point which I've never thought of before!

Surely those fancy gravestones we see in the matte shot were not hand-carved by Edward and Julia Morbius in the months which followed the Bellerophon disaster! Shocked

Gentlemen, I submit that young Edward Morbius dug those graves and then erected very simple markers . . . after which he devoted his time and energy to insuring that he and his young wife survived on Altair 4!

At some point after that happened, he would instruct Robby to create suitable grave markers for the dead Bellerophon crewmen.

Unfortunately, by that time these markers would include the most elaborate one — the marker for Morbius' wife after she died while giving birth to Altaira.

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud, that painting is by a very talented artist named Robert Berttini….He signs his works as Rob Bert.

I have a file of much of his FP paintings from his and the FP Facebook page. I'll post some later.





As to your questions....

Why bury Morbius? Out of respect Robby may have taken him to be beside his wife. Perhaps the same for Doc. We bury the dead as an attempt to render honor and dignity to the dead. They had a burial ceremony for Quinn for the same reason. In any regard, I think that painting is meant more as symbolic than reality.

When Morbius said he buried the crew "With my own hands" I think he was being a bit hyperbolic. He buried them by using a "tool", either a shovel or Robby. Either way he was the instigator of the act.

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