ALL SCI-FI

[Bogmeister]

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I'll have to be honest here . . . the reason I went to see Logan's Run a 2nd time in theaters back in 1976 was Jenny Agutter . . . plain & simple. I couldn't get the picture of her in that diaphanous attire — hardly concealing anything in her first scene with Michael York — out of my mind.

That said, there were other very attractive elements to this. Big budget Sci-Fi pictures were still rather rare (just before Star Wars) and I was impressed with the scope. It all takes place in the far future of the 23rd century, showing us an enclosed Utopian society of exclusively young people (under 30 yrs old), but policed by a force of "Sandmen" — fairly ruthless, callous enforcers who hunt down "Runners" or those citizens who choose an escape attempt when their time in paradise is up. The society is run by some sort of super-computer to keep the population always correctly balanced; it's female-voiced.



Unfortunately, this film began on the downside with the opening credits — the shots of the multi-domed city were too obviously a model and threw me out of the picture before it even began, really. I tried to get those opening shots out of mind as the film progressed and mostly succeeded. Some of the interior long shots of the city weren't much better, however — though they looked OK back in the seventies.

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I'm also not too thrilled by the lack of any substantial backstory for this entire set-up. It's almost like some godling created this magical city one day and set up all the rules. Many details are missing — we see a baby hospital in the beginning, but rarely any adolescents or teens except as wild urchins in one section of the city no one else goes to. Who raises the kids here? (my guess is the computer).

Also, Logan himself (Michael York) is problematic. He's presented as one of the Sandmen villains at the start, then sent on a secret mission by the ruling computer. His motivations from then on are either ambivalent or self-serving. He is, after all, seeking to escape his own turn at Carousel (death) out of self-preservation — there's nothing heroic about that. Yet he is depicted as the hero of the story for most of it, almost noble in his attitude (this may be the fault of actor York, who can't help but act in a certain manner; he's British, you know — that D'Artagnan ideal).



But the film was quite entertaining. I was kept hooked for most of it, as Logan & Jessica began their quest and moved from one interesting locale to the next (and Agutter even had a brief nude scene later). There was always something strange or wondrous going on.

I liked the tense conflict that developed between Logan and fellow Sandman Francis (Richard Jordan). Farrah-Fawcett was already becoming famous in the first season of Charlie's Angels. And it was great to see Peter Ustinov appear amid all those cats in an otherwise-deserted Washington D.C. But again, there's a lack of details: why only Ustinov in this decaying city? (see ZPG-1972 for one intriguing possibility as a prequel).

BoG's Score: 7 out of 10

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Besides the short TV series which followed, Marvel Comics adapted this into a 6-issue series, art by George Perez. There were 2 more issues that attempted to continue the story without Perez (art by Tom Sutton), but the series was then canceled.


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Some Trivia on the casting:

Jon Voight was in talks to play Logan but nothing ever came of it. William Devane actually signed on as Francis but felt he was wrong for the part and bowed out. Lindsay Wagner was considered for the role of Jessica, the part that went to Agutter. William F. Nolan is very proud of his baby (Logan's Run and the sequel novels, Logan's World and Logan's Search), referring to it by such descriptions as a 'global phenomenon.'

I'm going by dim memory, but I think he (or Johnson) got very upset at writer David Gerrold way back in the day (late seventies) after Gerrold said some unkind words about the concept. Gerrold may have been referring more to the movie, less the novels.



BoG
Galaxy Overlord Galactus

[Gord Green]

I had read the original first novel before seeing the movie and liked it very much. Upon first seeing the film I was thrilled to see the overall effect of it, but somewhat disappointed in the special effects and overall "slickness" of the production.

Box was just not portrayed realisticly and the city was just too "clean", looking more like a shopping mall (which it WAS!) than a real habitation.

The casting was fine....every major character was well represented. Peter Ustinov was a delight.

Overall, I would also give it a 7 out of 10. More for the effort and story than anything else.

And ...Oh yes, Jenny was a beauty!
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Bud Brewster]

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Jenny was just as lovely in An American Werewolf in London. In fact, I thought she was even sexier!

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Gord Green]

Jenny had a small part in CAPTAIN AMERICA;CIVIL WAR.

She’s part of a shadowy bunch of faces known (according to IMDB) as the World Security Council, which also includes Powers Boothe (Deadwood). Their faces appear on screens every once in awhile to give bad advice – well, orders – to SHIELD director Nick Fury (Samuel Jackson).. She is the one THE BLACK WIDOW impersonates to take over the HQ.


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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[ralfy]

"Run, Runner! ‘Logan’s Run’ Star Michael York Shares New Tales on Film’s 45th Anniversary"

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/michael-york-logans-run-45th-anniversary-4168809/

[Krel]

Jenny Agutter has said that she did not like the mini dress she had to wear. But she ABSOLUTELY HATED the skimpy circuit costume.

David.

[Bud Brewster]

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I completely agree with Miss Agutter.

The only things about the dress that are appealing are the color and softness of the fabric. The fact that it tends to show so much flesh doesn't really make the dress better . . . it just makes the dress less.

A garment that fit better and accented her nice figure, without showing anything above the short hemline, would have been more appealing. And if it came with a matching pair of ankle-strap high heeled sandals that gave her a womanly walk, it would have been far more appealing.









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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Krel]

Jessica entered Logan's apartment through the Circuit matter transmitter. But she left his apartment by the apartment door. This means that she had to walk home through the city in that skimpy outfit, without any footwear. Good thing it was night. Hopefully she didn't have to travel far and they kept the city pathways clean.

David.

[Pow]

Smoke and Mirrors by Mark D. Wolfe.

---is seriously a puzzle. My disappointment in the film pertains to the inexcusably small scale miniature city, which is an unfathomable misfire considering L. B. Abbott's credentials. The model wouldn't have been allowed at a World's Fair display.

The tabletop further compounds its errors using real running water that kills the illusion by revealing its small scale. And who on earth painted that abysmal backdrop?

On the other hand, Matthew Yuricich's paintings are a highlight, and he deserved his Academy Award.

Sidebar: Ouch! True, the futuristic city comes off as exactly what it was; a model. As others have noted, the filming and lighting also contributed to its phoniness.

I did like the design for it, and, yes, it would have been accepted at the World's Fair given some of the photos I've seen of miniature futuristic cities at some real World's Fairs.

I know, Mark was being Don Rickles with that remark.

[Bud Brewster]

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You're right, Mike. Despite the fact that the minaiture is totally unconvincing, it's still far more appealing than Mr. Wolfe's description.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Bud Brewster]

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Let's Create a Sequel!
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~ A Question for the Members: What would the citizens of the domed city do after they discover that (a) the computer would no long run their marvelous automated environment, and (b) they were going to have face the unpleasant rigors of aging?

~ Here's what I came up with.: Let's assume that the computer routinely trained enough people to maintain the automated systems and the A.I. itself to keep the whole thing running during the years of its previous existence.

If this is true, then after the Michael York crashed the system, these individuals would get to work repairing things. But now that they know the truth, they would insure that none of the old limits on lifespans were part of their culture.

However, the world outside the domes is never addressed in the movie. Logan and Jessica proved that the environment outside was perfectly habitable. We're never told why the sealed domed cities were necessary — which, frankly, really sucks in my opinion as a published science fiction author.

By the way, I read the summary of the plot of the novel on which the movie is based, and it's considerable more optimistic. For example, Francis 7 turns out to be a 42-year-old man whose life clock is faulty, and he maintains a youthful appearance with plastic surgery so he can masquerade as a Sandman while actually helping runners reach "Sanctuary".

And get this. folks. Sanctuary turns out to be Argos, a previously abandoned space colony near Mars!

Well, screw all that. Here's my ideas, which are a lot better.

A global pandemic ravaged the world and drove the uninfected survivors into the domed cities to protect them from the rest of the morons in the population who refused to wear masks or get the vaccine.

Sound familiar? Obviously truth really is stranger than fiction.

But the pandemic virus has finally killed off all the brainless morons (wishful thinking on my part . . . ) and now the domed city dwellers can venture out and repopulate the Earth.

However, there will obviously be enclaves of survivors who've established rustic communities after the fall of civilization. The more technologically advanced "City People" will have quite a lot to offer these folks . . . if the City People are willing to overcome their previous pampered lifestyle and join forces with these less-advanced communities.

Guys, despite the recent drought of posts on All Sci-Fi, I know I still have a few intelligent members who are willing and able to contribute to this intellectual discussion.

And I know they also share my wish that we had a more folks like us . . .

But having said all that, I'm looking forward to the replies of the few smart folks we still have.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Bud Brewster]

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Today I started pondering the premise of this movie and wondering about a few things.

For example, the story establishes that the population is perfectly balanced simply by killing off everybody when they reached thirty, and then allowing an equal number of new births.

But the babies obviously aren't born normally (we don't see pregnant girls), so the eggs are fertilized and incubated artificial, then the kids are raised separately from all the "adults" — whatever age that might be.

That brings up some interesting questions.

~ Does the A.I. that controls the city actually "predetermine" at birth the various professions needed to maintain the culture? If so, does this mean Logan 5 and Francis 7 are the 5th and 7th generation Sandmen of the Logan and Francis genetic lines?

~ Who tends to the kids until they're old enough to join the fun-loving folks we see in the movie? Are some people drafted into childcare service for a period of time, or is this profession also assigned at birth?

~ Are "predetermined professions" also the method used to recruit the technicians and other personnel required to maintain the hi-tech machinery?

Although this may be true in the fictional universe, it seems likely that a percentage of the population would actually find it more rewarding to learn a profession rather than just "play around", like most of the people we see in the movie.

The cosmetic surgeon we see in one scene would be an example of this. Perhaps people can request to be trained for a certain profession even if they weren't given one at birth.

~ How do men become Sandmen? That would seem to be a profession that some people would choose, since it requires complete commitment to the laws making if mandatory for people to "renew" when they become thirty years old.

And besides, some guys thrive on being in positions of authority . . . not to mention the nifty guns they get to tote around.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Pow]

You have created some marvelous ideas and questions for this concept, Bud.

A sequel, expanding on your thoughtful concepts, could have teams from the domed cities, go on exploratory missions to attempt to aid those who live outside the domes.

Kind of like what Gene Roddenberry did with his SF TV-movie/pilots Genesis II, and Planet Earth. Saturday morning SF had a TV series called Ark II. The operators of the futuristic Ark II went out seeking human enclaves that they could assist in any way could.

These Dome-Teams could also have the mission of discovering anymore pandemics and attempting to prevent them from occurring. These teams could be attempting to solve the mystery of where this first pandemic arose that drove populations into the domes. Was the disease natural, or human-constructed? If concocted by scientists, was it a terrible accident that went awry, or did it have a deadly purpose. If humans did create it, do some still posses it?

Does the incredible AI computer play a role in any of this?

Are there other domes that have developed different kinds of social orders from Logan's dome city? Similar to Harlan Ellison's Starlost television series.

[Bud Brewster]

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Mike, you are cookin' with gas!

Yes indeed, one or more sequels that incorporated your concepts would be awesome. I like the idea that the Dome Citizens (to coin a phrase) realize the risk they'll take if they go outside, because of the pandemic which necessitated the domes in the first place.

You asked about the role the A.I. would play in all this. I'd like to have the A.I. reprogrammed to make it serve the new society which the Dome Citizens create after their Great Awakening.

After all, these guys are babes in the woods when it comes to establishing a stable and prosperous community. The computer's data banks would contain a wealth of knowledge the Dome Citizens would need — including information on the viral infection which caused the pandemic.

Here's a thought: suppose the virus only became contagious when an infected individual reaches middle age!

If that was the case, then it was the original reason for eliminating the people at age thirty — to prevent them from spreading the virus when it was no longer dormant in their bodies.

This would explain the sealed suits the people on "Carousel" wore, and the way their bodies were destroyed during the ritual. They were being treated as a potential sources of infection . . . and then incinerated!



Imagine a story in which the Dome Citizens learned that they wouldn't be able to enjoy long lives after all, because the virus would become active and kill them — and they'd spread it to others as well.

I think the sequel would tell the story of how they learned all this from the A.I..

But they also discover that a source for a vaccine is now available to them . . . in the blood of the only known individual who has a natural immunity.

This guy!





Mike, this works perfectly with your idea concerning teams that venture out in search of social enclaves which need to be vaccinated. These isolated groups might have versions of the "Carousel" ritual that involve the sacrifice of the middle-aged people.

Convincing these uneducated people that they could be cured of the virus and therefore abandon the sacrificial ritual would be a challenge.

Mike, you've really opened up this concept with your suggestions. Bravo!
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Maurice]

I wrote the following, gosh, about 20 years ago. I think I posted it on the late lamented old board, so let me add it back to the conversation:


Run Logan Run (Logan Rennt)


Logan’s Run is one of those movies of which I had only the vaguest adolescent recollection. I don’t remember when I first saw it, or even if I saw it in a theater, though this seems likely. I had fragmentary memories of scenes, but suspected that many of these are from photos from the film, or bits encountered whilst channel-flipping years after the fact. Of my first viewing of the film I only clearly remembered a robot called Box, and this so dimly that I wasn’t even certain that Box was part of Logan at all.

Clearly the film didn’t make much of an impression on me. But then again, I can’t recall many details of most films I saw in my preteen years. Unlike today’s youth who may watch the same movie three times a day on VHS and DVD, Logan’s Run was a singular viewing experience for me, overshadowed soon after by the likes of Star Wars and its cinematic ilk.

So, it was with some trepidation that I rented and watched Logan’s Run on DVD. Two things struck me about the movie. One, that the premise held all kinds of promise for commenting on society, youth, aging, responsibility, and about cultures that would dictate your life and when it ends. Two, that the film as a whole almost totally fails to explore virtually any issue it raises.

It’s easy to make fun of Logan’s Run, what with its 70’s pedigree feathered and blow-dried on practically every frame. From the polyester jumpsuits to the sideburns and even Farrah Fawcett with the hairdo that she’d make famous in Charlie’s Angels. Tomorrow is yesterday but picking on the film for its fashions and special effects (Oscar-winning in 1976, rendered ridiculous by Star Wars and Close Encounters the following year) is too easy. Sure, many a classic suffers similar faults but succeeds based on the merits of its story or the film as a whole.

Sadly for Logan, it’s no classic.

In the post-“Catastrophe” 23rd century what we see of humanity resides in a City of Domes; a self-contained world where the populace have no responsibilities or cares. Pleasure is the order of business. But, like all science fiction utopias, there’s a catch. Each citizen’s 30th birthday is their “Lastday”. On that auspicious date each is expected to dutifully go to “Carousel” where their lives will end in a blaze of fire. But the citizens go willingly either because they just accept their lot or perhaps because of the promise that some of them will experience “renewal” and be born again (and we’re not talking being “saved” here).

Every citizen’s Lastday is easily apparent, as they carry their age literally in the palm of their hand, in the form of a small crystal that changes color with time and flashes red when 30 rolls around.


“Rosy Palm” takes on a whole new meaning…

Naturally, there are dissidents who would question the system or try to live longer. Of course, this is not tolerated, and a police force of sorts — the Sandmen — exists to terminate all who would renounce or escape Lastday: the Runners.

Titular Logan 5 is a Sandman, and he enjoys his job. He gets a sadistic kick out of chasing down terrified Runners. Just Logan’s luck, he’s assigned by a computer to discover and destroy “Sanctuary”, the place to which Runners try to escape. In order to make this ruse work, his lifeclock is altered to make him appear to be 30. This may fool the Runners he is to use to find Sanctuary, but imperils Logan because his fellow Sandmen will take him as a Runner for real.

Logan enlists the aid of a woman he suspects to be tied to the Runners — Jessica 6 — but she’s rightfully suspicious. After both the Runners’ underground and the Sandmen try to kill Logan, Jessica becomes convinced of his sincerity. And Logan, who suspects he will not be given back the 4 years taken from him, begins to question the system as well. Furthermore, he and Jessica (somewhat inexplicably) start to fall in love.

In their subsequent adventures they escape from the City to the wilderness Outside, where they learn that much of what they’ve been taught are lies, and that life needn’t end at 30 (a message for the aging youth of the 60s, to be sure).

Unfortunately, the film is a letdown because of its inability or unwillingness to explore the issues it raises. Life in the City of the Domes is short but full of pleasure, but there’s no exploration of that. What kind of people would result from a world that asks them to do nothing more than to have fun? We see only that they are bland and childlike, having sex, doing drugs, and getting cosmetic surgery, but clearly this can’t be all.

There are tantalizing glimpses of people who operate on the fringes of this society, like the youthful “cubs” who inhabit and are locked away in a distant sector of the city. It raises questions about how this society functions, and what supplies it, but no answers are forthcoming. How do the cubs get food? Why are they even tolerated? The Sandmen seem unconcerned with these feral youth, and Logan only ventures into their domain in search of a Runner. This implies that the Sandmen are merely enforcers of Lastday, and have no other concerns. Are the citizens free to do whatever they want so long as they show up for Carousel on Lastday? Is violence and even murder permissible?

The questions extend beyond the City of Domes. Just before reaching Outside, Logan and Jessica find a series of frozen caverns, within which they encounter a creature that claims to be more than man and machine but is clearly something of both. Its name is Box, and its stated purpose is to collect and store nutrients from the sea. But, the sea’s bounty has long since vanished, and Box has taken to freezing the only things that come into its lair: Runners.

Logan battles Box, and he and Jessica escape as Box’s world comes crashing down upon it. But was Box a function of the City of Domes? Was it part of the food supply? There is an implication that the Runners are being preserved for food, with interesting implications about what that could mean.

But, again, the connection with the City is tenuous, and we’re left to wonder what it all meant.


Redefining the meaning of BOXed lunch

Facing the real world Outside, Logan and Jessica struggle through the untamed wilderness. Jessica clings to the belief that they’ll find Sanctuary, but Logan suspects there is no such place. Two turning points change their fates and change them.

First, they discovered their lifeclocks have turned clear, symbolically freeing them from the tyranny of Lastday.

Secondly, they discover the ruins of Washington D.C., and within it the proof of life beyond Lastday — the wizened visage within the Lincoln Memorial, a living breathing Old Man.

Peter Ustinov’s turn as the Old Man is the biggest delight of the film. Living in the crumbling ruins of the U.S. Capitol building with a clowder of house cats big enough to qualify as a herd, the Old Man is funny, touching and tragic. He is by turns loony, wise, and comic, and manages to be some of these at the same time. It’s a neat trick to be simultaneously tragic and funny, but Ustinov does it with such a deft hand that it seems effortless.

It’s the Old Man who confirms Logan’s growing suspicions of the lie that is Lastday, and this knowledge of the lie gives this one-time killer a conscience. He now knows he can grow old, live a long life, and raise a family. But he can’t live with himself if he doesn’t try to save everyone else from Lastday.

It’s a satisfying turn for the character.


No smart remarks about the best thing in the film.

Unfortunately, from this high point the film descends into the obvious. The climax is a letdown, because it doesn’t pay off the buildup we’ve gotten.

Logan and Jessica. return to the City of Domes, bringing the Old Man along as proof of their discoveries. They leave him outside as they brave water systems to get in, but they don’t get far. Calling attention to themselves by yelling at crowds bound for Carousel, they are apprehended by the Sandmen.

Logan is interrogated by the computer that assigned him to find Sanctuary. But when the computer can’t understand Logan’s answers, it conveniently explodes. A firefight starts in the computer room, which result not just in the room being destroyed, but the entire Sandman building — and then, it seems, much of the city itself.

Suddenly aware of the world outside, the inhabitants happen upon the Old Man and are all smiling and happy to see him. There is no shock of the unknown, no repulsion at what old age mean — and seemingly, no real surprise at the apparent betrayal of everything they’ve believed . . . or at least of having their world crashing down around their ears.

It’s a unsatisfying conclusion. It’s too pat. Too easy.

When Logan and Jessica yell to the populace to renounce Lastday, no one listens. They laugh and continue on to the bread and circuses. But would everyone be so? Would not those who were considering running want to hear more? It would have been more dramatic to see at least one person moved by Logan’s cries. Whose lives and ideologies would be threatened by the truth? And who would embrace his claims? Who would rally to Logan’s side?

The filmmakers missed an opportunity to visually represent the various factions that could result, how (lifeclock) color would turn on color. As the costumers put the characters in wardrobes that reflected their lifeclock color, it would have been easy to dynamically illustrate these differences. Youth, the yellows and greens, would stand for the status quo, unable to look to the future, as youth often is, and thinking only of the pleasures to come and that Logan threatens it.

The Reds, whose time is almost up, might tend towards Logan’s side, for they face with their own mortality, and the fear that invariably comes with that.

In the end I’m left to wonder what the film is about. It’s not about a culture obsessed with youth, because it fails to explore that in any but the most superficial way. And, for all its tawdry exhibition of a society that seems to exist for fun, sex, and drugs, it ends up in Leave it to Beaver land.

Ultimately it’s just another middle of the road expression of feel-good values that people should love and settle down as mother and father, raise their children and grow old. Nothing necessarily objectionable there, but a pretty bland destination given the journey taken to reach it. Too bad it didn’t take the road less traveled.