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Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: batman v superman Reply with quote

Gord Green wrote:
I went to see this today and all I can say is 'the critics must all be idiots, or just out to diss the genre!'

This is great news, Gordon. I want this movie to be good, and we all know that sometimes the critics — and even a big chunk of the public — can be wrong about a movie.

I will definitely watch this one and decide for myself. Heck, I just recently found out that both Battleship and Pacific Rim were WAY better than a lot of people seem to think. That's why I bought them both from Amazon — and only had to pay about $10.00 for the pair!

Thanks for the comments. Very Happy

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Custer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, those two movies aren't bad at all - Pacific Rim better than Battleship, I think.

I'm just back from Batman v Superman, and the big surprise was how full the place was - rolling up about five minutes before the ads started, I was lucky to get a seat. Except for the wider "premium" seats, the place was packed, and that's not what I expect at 1:30 in the afternoon.

There were times when I chuckled or even laughed at the absurdity of what we were being shown (though the soundtrack was loud enough for that not to disturb my neighbours) - and there were times when, come on, we need Wonder Woman here to sort things out, where the heck has she got to? I'm just surprised how well-kept the secrets of what happens have been kept. Forget about Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg, they don't appear in the movie - except for brief, small-scale security footage viewed on Diana's laptop. And enjoy the credits and the music at the end if your bladder allows, just don't expect an extra scene. The film starts off as a Batman movie with occasional shots of the Man of Steel, though things do even up a bit later. It's all way over the top, but that doesn't have to stop us enjoying the ride, right?
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Yep, it definitely sounds like one of the those movies where the viewer's expectations need to be just right to enjoy it. If one is expecting to drink water from a glass and it turns out to be gin, the shock is unpleasant.

So, when I finally do see this movie, I'll be sure to fine tune my expectations so I won't hate if for not being what I expected.

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:19 pm    Post subject: batman vs superman Reply with quote

In answer to some questions about the "Knightmare" sequence------

In "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice," Bruce Wayne experienced an extended dream sequence that showed a desolate future where Superman was treated like a god and destruction reigned.
Immediately afterwards, Batman got a visit from the Flash,through either a time portal or a boom tube, who had a cryptic message for Bruce before he disappeared.
The Flash says "You were right. Lois is the key!" That this was not just a dream is reinforced by the fluttering papers around Batman as he looks up.

This sequence combines two key DC story arcs - The Flashpoint Saga and Injustice-Gods Amongst Us.

Therein an alternate world Superman reacts to the Joker killing Lois and their unborn son while destroying Metropolis in a nucular holocaust. Superman blames Batman for failing to permantly removing the Joker (after all Superman had to make that decision with Zod.). After the Joker taunts Superman beyond his ability to control himself....Superman tears out the Jokers heart and rips him to pieces. Superman sees that he must take control of the world and does so opposed only by Batman and eventualy, hero counterparts from our reality.

It takes our earths Superman to defeat the alternate realities version.

The Injustice; Gods amongst Us story can be seen on youtube here-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2hBMRob5_M

Zack Snyder referred to the sequence thusly--
"I think it's okay to look at the extended dream sequence as an impressionistic view of a possible future," he explained. "That's... in the sequence, so I'm not like spoiling anything or making up anything that you didn't see. So the connection with the Flash... part of that sequence, you can speculate if, whether or not Flash is coming from that reality or another one, but that's the fun stuff to try and figure out exactly what Flash is saying to Bruce and what he means... we know, so... we're not making it up."
As to Darkseid's connection to the Knightmare, he teased, "Oh, that giant impression in the ground? Oh yeah, that's right. I mean, maybe [Darkseid] exists out in the universe somewhere, just looking for something, something that's against life, I don't know."
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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those who think that this an April Fool's Day joke — it both Is and ISN'T.

Injustice: Gods Among Us is a video game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injustice:_Gods_Among_Us

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

How The Batman v Superman Should Have Ended


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ralfy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not that bad. The problems involve editing and lack of character development, probably due to the point that there was too much content.

The latter point has to do with similar problems affecting many tent-poles of the last few years. Some points are raised here:

"Steven Spielberg and George Lucas predict film industry 'implosion'"

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jun/13/steven-spielberg-george-lucas-film-industry
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the marketing for Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice began to ramp up, few images caught the eye (and curiosity) of comic fans like Ben Affleck's Batman, goggled, coated, and battling armed soldiers in a post-apocalyptic desert. As the weeks and months passed, fans were given enough to deduce that the sequence in question — dubbed the Knightmare — was nothing but a dream — a terrifying "worst case scenario" that Bruce Wayne envisioned, should his fears of Superman prove accurate.

But then, that wasn't the whole story.
After all, the massive Omega symbol scorched into the Earth, the red-eyed, winged footsoldiers torn from the pages of DC Comics all seemed to tease the next supervillian in store for Justice League. So, was Bruce Wayne's dream built from images eerily familiar to DC Comics readers? Or was director Zack Snyder up to something more sinister? One member of the film's production has come forward to confirm our suspicions that, more than anything, the Knightmare seems certain to be a sign of dark days ahead.

As discussed in multiple articles since the first images of the Knightmare sequence were released, the Omega symbol and Parademon soldiers are all signs of Darkseid, the classic Justice League villain from the planet Apokolips. But what wasn't revealed ahead of release was the biggest twist of the Knightmare sequence: the arrival of The Flash (Ezra Miller) that immediately followed it, bursting into the Batcave through a rupture in time.

Flash's arrival and cryptic warning had us convinced this was more than just an Easter Egg-filled dream. For starters, the warning fits Snyder's tease that something bigger really is coming, the depiction of Apokoliptian tech and soldiers is a little too accurate to be coincidence, and then there's the very real papers scattered by the so-called dream.

Producer Deborah Snyder explained how the Flash cameo was written as a hint at things to come, but it doesn't explain how Affleck's Batman is suddenly seeing premonitions of what's to come.

Now, storyboard artist Jay Oliva has offered his own interpretation of the scene, which should make perfect sense to those already steeped in DC Comics lore — and surprise those who missed the real plot twist being delivered.

Normally a storyboard artist's interpretation wouldn't be given a colossal amount of weight, but Oliva is no stranger to DC fans, having done the same work for Man of Steel, The Flash TV series, the upcoming Wonder Woman film, as well as directing the animated DC features Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Assault on Arkham, Justice League: War, Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox and countless others.

And after working on the Knightmare sequence with director Zack Snyder, Oliva offered up his own explanation on the Hall of Justice Podcast as to what the "dream sequence" really means:

"You want to know the answer? Okay, you've watched The Flashpoint Paradox, my movie, right? In the DC Universe in the comics, there's this thing where it's a little different than the Back to The Future thing where you can go back in time and change your threads and stuff, but in DC, when you go back in time you create this kind of "Time Boom" kind of thing where lots of things change.

"Okay, so let me just tell you this. Again" I don't know if this is Zack's thinking, but this is mine: what if that isn't a dream sequence? What if what you saw was a Time Boom, a latent memory from the future when Flash comes back? If you look at the cut, he doesn't go to sleep! He's waiting for the [Lexcorp file decryption] and suddenly this [Knightmare sequence] comes in, and he's jogged out of it seeing his own death. And what does he see? He sees Flash. And if you're a DC fan, you know what's happening. You know that Flash going back in time, that memory is now coming back to him, mind you, it's jumbled."

It doesn't come as a total surprise that our own conclusions fall in line with Oliva's (The Flashpoint Paradox was one story we pointed to as an explanation of the vision coinciding with Barry Allen's arrival), but he states plainly some of the more complicated aspects of the question. His description is accurate, too: audience members never see Bruce Wayne fall asleep. Upon loading the encrypted files returned by Wonder Woman, Bruce begins to gaze a little too intently at a progress bar — almost as if his mind is beginning to drift elsewhere — before the screen suddenly cuts to black, and the full Knightmare begins.

Most audience members will not only fail to get the references to Darkseid and Apokolips, let alone the identity of Ezra Miller's out of focus, violent appearance or cryptic warning. Least of all, the fact that the vision comes to a wide awake Bruce, and ends with him face down on his desk, startled awake at Flash's sudden interruption (and the fluttering papers defying the implied explanation that it was all in Bruce's head).

But weighing the sequence on its own, there's clearly too much going on here to be thrown in for no reason. How could Bruce Wayne just "dream up" the landscape of an alien world, the markings of an alien conqueror, or even a tyrannical Superman out for his life, seeing Batman as the man who "took her from me." We don't know the woman being referred to, but Snyder clearly has an idea. They all make sense if offered as a dark view of a possible future, but presented as merely a dream sequence causes all kinds of plot holes to be torn open.

As a frequent writer and interpreter of the existing DC Comics mythology, Oliva believes that ambiguity (again, in his opinion, viewing Snyder's imagery and storytelling through a similar lens as a DC creator), was completely intentional:

"The thing is that, it's meant to be so kind of subtle, most audiences just think of it as a dream. And it's meant to be that way. It's just like in the comics when there might be some shadowy figure standing in the background, you don't know who that character is until five issues down the line. The main purpose of that in the film" because people will probably say "why even have it, if it's not going to be followed through?"

"I'm going to say: 'Well, it's there because it actually adds to' Bruce Wayne's kind of mania. Because he sees this memory. He doesn't quite know exactly what he saw, all it does is tell him is that Superman is bad.

And remember, when Flash goes back in time, he tells him "you were right about him." He doesn't say exactly who "him" is. The average audience member, and even Bruce Wayne, is going to think that he's right about Superman, when in fact he's referring to someone else."

"The thing is that, it's meant to be so kind of subtle, most audiences just think of it as a dream. And it's meant to be that way. It's just like in the comics when there might be some shadowy figure standing in the background, you don't know who that character is until five issues down the line. The main purpose of that in the film — because people will probably say 'why even have it, if it's not going to be followed through?"

"I'm going to say: 'Well, it's there because it actually adds to' Bruce Wayne's kind of mania. Because he sees this memory. He doesn't quite know exactly what he saw, all it does is tell him is that Superman is bad.
"And remember, when Flash goes back in time, he tells him 'you were right about him.' He doesn't say exactly who 'him' is. The average audience member, and even Bruce Wayne, is going to think that he's right about Superman, when in fact he's referring to someone else."

Oliva's thoughts are going to make perfect sense to DC Comics fans, and likely excite them for not only what's coming, but how Zack Snyder is planting hints and seeds already — but that won't win over those who felt the movie catered too closely to fans at the cost of a self-contained narrative.

It's a fair concern going forward, but Snyder has never made his loyalty to fans a secret, even if it's sure to garner criticism by drawing on other stories, movies and comics too heavily.

Oliva doesn't defend the director from that side of the conversation, but implies that complaints of the sequence "not making sense" or not belonging in the movie are out of line. He stops short of predicting who that character being teased has to be — leaving Darkseid or one of his colleagues as the most likely fan-suggested answer — leaving Zack Snyder to decide what's being hinted at, and how these scenes will be worked into those films yet to be made.

But Oliva reminds all that these kind of conclusions aren't reaching, or trying to make sense of a nonsensical story: after all, time travel as presented in Batman V Superman is as important to the core DC Universe as the heroes themselves:

"I work with these characters constantly. Hell, I did The Flashpoint Paradox! So I know the whole time thing, and what DC is all about. It's like "Days of Future Past" for X-Men, you know that the time travel thing is a part of X-Men. Star Trek does that with the reboot. But for some reason, as soon as you do it in a DC film, people suddenly just forgot! Superman turning back time in the Donner films is suddenly okay, and I'm like, "Okay THAT doesn't make sense!'"

If our own interpretation of the scene, as well as Oliva's, proves to be Snyder's intent, then fans of The Flash won't have to wait for the hero's solo movie to see him shape the DCEU as a whole. But they will be waiting for the moment in his film, or the Justice League team-up when Barry Allen takes a trip back in time to deliver the message.

It could prove a thrilling moment, but the question must be asked how bad will things get before he realizes it's the world's only hope?

For the answer, we'll all have to wait and see.
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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of that, Gord, underscores the basic problem with both the DC and MARVEL series.

They are becoming unnecessarily complicated.

The vast majority of film goers do NOT know all of this back-story nor do they need to.

Every few years the producers/writers/owners change everything. So it becomes moot because what the viewer/reader knows is dependent upon WHEN and for HOW LONG they were exposed to the characters.

The other problem is determining what degree of realism they want to portray.

The simple fact is that NONE of them are truly realistic.

Including Batman.

With the resources the police, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, the military, etc. have there is no way that Bats could keep up his charade. He would be apprehended, Bruce would loose his fortune AND his freedom and never, ever be seen again.

Superman would be hunted down and either destroyed or forced to work for Uncle Sam on their terms. Supes would have to have absolutely NO contacts. No Ma Kent, no Lois (They would be simply a means to control him) in order to even function.

The movies show Real Versions, you say?

Nonsense.

We, ALL OF US, must engage in a partial self-deception for it to work. Just look at today's news.

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bulldogtrekker
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I finally saw Batman vs. Superman at the $3 second-run theater.

It was wonderful. Very Happy I was pleasantly pleased since I expected the worst. The bad news first: the music was poor and the pacing was poor. And how many times are we going to see Bruce's parents murdered?

The good news: everything else. I have never seen Ben Affleck better. I hope he is nominated for Best Actor.

Henry Cavill was better as Clark Kent than as Superman. Superman needed more dialogue.

I am looking forward to the Blu-ray.
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Sean
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:37 pm    Post subject: I found it good but dissapointing Reply with quote

I went to see this as I'm both a Batman, and a Superman fan. While I can say that the movie was good, it was also in a sense, very disappointing.

From all the preview hype, most of the conflicts you see leading up to an epic rivalry between the two was totally out of context, and had no relation to what you'd think.

With that in mind if you wanted to see a grand battle between the two, like the title of the movie suggests, being labelled Batman VS Superman, you'll be sad to find out that the ACTUAL quarrel between the two was lucky to last 5-7 minutes out of the ENTIRE movie.

Aside from a poor choice in title, misleading expectations of what the movie would be about, it actually wasn't bad. I think if there was more context in previews relaying what the movie actually is about, there would be far less criticism. Seems all my buddies who also watched this movie agree, well worth watching.

Great actors, no one oversold their character role to the point of it being non-believable, great special effects and a nice story line to keep you intrigued, but yet at the same time disappointing and misleading ESPECIALLY if you were in it solely for the fight between the two.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I'm really looking forward to watching it when it comes out on DVD, now that your comments and others I've read have helped me know what to expect.

Thanks, Sean! Very Happy

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched the expanded "ultimate" cut and I HIGHLY recommend it!

Expanded scenes are mostly Bruce, Clark and Alfred and greatly fill out the story!
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orzel-w
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We watched the DVD last night.

I thought the actor playing young Bruce Wayne's father looked familiar, although he didn't get much screen time or any spoken lines. He wasn't even credited for the role (no listing for Bruce's father in the screen credits).

But I confirmed my suspicions through IMDb. It was Jeffrey Dean Stanton.

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Custer
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that my blu-ray has the theatrical version, at 151 minutes, and the "ultimate edition" at 182 minutes... which would have been a bit long to show on the big screen. And plenty of extras too, of course...

It looks as if I will need to see that extended version, on one of those long winter evenings we have ahead of us!
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