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Bogmeister Galactic Fleet Vice Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 575
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Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:02 pm Post subject: TNG episode #26: The Neutral Zone |
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THE NEUTRAL ZONE episode #26, 1st season / Air Date: 5/16/88
written by Maurice Hurley; Directed by James L. Conway
The final episode of the first season sets the stage for future events in the 2nd and onward. The Romulans pop up again after being scarce for the past 50-odd years (since the 'The Tomed Incident'). They were mentioned in a couple of previous episodes in this season, so that may have been a build up to this (what is strange is that there was an indication of Romulan vessels being spotted in these previous episodes — though the audience didn't see them — but here the crew state that none have been seen for many years).
Though this might have been a straightforward story about confronting Romulans, this is not the case. The secondary story (or is it the first?) involves the ship coming across an ancient space capsule from Earth.
Everyone wants to ignore it, except Data — the only one with interests in Earth history, evidently (everyone else is focused on the future, not the past). Data finds 3 still-operating containers from the era of cryonics (late 20th to early 21st century).
Uh-oh, has Data found 3 more Khans? (Space Seed on TOS). No, not quite. They are 3 typical humans from that era, not superior specimens.
This was also an episode which typified Picard's general disinterest, snootiness and callousness about certain things during the 1st season. You would think that 3 Earthlings from over 300 years ago would at least pique his intellectual curiosity, but he even suggests that Data should have left them to die.
Jeez, so much for that pacifist, enlightened mentality.
The plot has Picard very focused on the problem of destroyed outposts and possible conflict with Romulans, and he also rationalizes that the 3 humans were already dead, but it's still a very narrow-minded, even ignorant attitude on his part. In fact, no one shows any interest in the revived humans. (What, no historians on board?) It would be like a town in the USA these days uncovering a live human from the Revolutionary War and ignoring him.
The three revived people are played by Peter Mark Richman, Leon Rippy & Gracie Harrison. Btw, this borrows from Gene Roddenberry's TV movies Genesis II (1973) and Planet Earth (1974).
The 3 chrononauts are not very interesting, but Richman manages some intrigue as a formerly rich financier who eventually must accept his new reality. He has a good scene on the bridge. Rippy as a singer, a country-western star, drawls on incessantly while the woman weeps a lot.
The two Romulans we see (played by Marc Alaimo & Anthony James) manage to convey much arrogance. The whole episode plays like a set-up for future events, and so nothing much happens. I found it dull when it first aired, but it's watchable nowadays.
BoG's Score: 6 out of 10
TNG Trivia:
~ Marc Alaimo, who plays the lead Romulan, is adept at arrogant characters; he became well known as a Cardassian, Gul Dukat, on the Deep Space Nine show.
~ When we speak of set-ups, this episode also turned out to be a set-up to introduce the Borg; the destroyed outposts were victims of an unknown foe here; but, mention of how they were 'scooped away' was later regarded as an obvious reference to the Borg technique.
BoG
Galaxy Overlord Galactus |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17558 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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________________________________
While watching this episode again today as I prepared Bogmeister's review ready to post, I was reminded of several odd flaws in the script that I noticed the first time I saw it. Bogmeister mentions some of these, others he didn't go into.
First of all, the story never explains how the aging satellite the frozen people were in got out into space when it was originally in Earth orbit.
Second, when the Enterprise discovers the derelict satellite, he elects not to destroy it, stating instead, "It's just space junk. Let it take its natural course." (Natural course? Like, leaving it to float around and collide with a ship? )
When the millionaire brags about how his stock in the cryonics company he owned must be worth billions now, Data informs him that "Cryonics was never more than a fade and didn't continue much beyond the mid 21st century.)
That's ironic in view of the fact that these three people managed to remain frozen until a time when their serious medical conditions could be easily cured by Dr. Crusher.
Bogmeister was right when he criticized Picard's dismissal of the three people as being unimportant because "they were already dead when they were frozen".
Damn, they must not have been too dead if Dr. Crusher easily thawed then cured them all in just a few minutes! To quote Mark Twain, "Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
When the Country Western singer says he wants to watch TV to find out how the Atlanta Braves are doing, Data makes a ridiculous statement on the subject of . . . television.
"That particular form of entertainment didn't last much beyond the year 2040."
Uh . . . right.
The millionaire asked Picard if he can find out if his trust fund on Earth is still available to him. Picard blithely informs him that money is no longer being used. People don't strive to acquire wealth anymore.
We all know that in the Star Trek universe there's no need to earn money, but I've always thought that idea was extremely naive. I think it's fine for people to have free access to food, medicine, decent clothing, etc. But money is pretty good measure of personal success in certain endeavors.
For example, if I write a novel (which I did) and people have to pay for it with money they've earned, then the sale of my novel means the readers want it badly enough to work for it.
That's just a simple example of how capitalism establishes the value of things in the eyes of the people who want to acquire them. If you can't simply get anything you want, free of charge, then you have to figure out what you really want before you spend your limited funds — and that enhances the personal value of those things you decide to get.
To some degree, people like writers and artists gauge the success of their artistic endeavors on the number of people who are willing buy their creations. And these artists don't feel fulfilled if the sales their work isn't up to the standard they set for themselves.
The basic principle of capitalism is that it gives each person the ability to trade their own work for the money they earn, and then trade that money for something created by someone else. A janitor can save his money and eventually buy a great painting. He traded his time and his manual labor for something extremely rare and valuable.
I've always wondered just exactly how the Star Trek universe managed to do without a system that worked in this manner. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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The model builders had some fun with this episode. Not seen in the episode, they labeled the cryo satellite the S. S. Birds Eye.
David. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17558 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: |
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________________________________
Ah-ha. Clever! _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3682 Location: New York
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Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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The Romulans were revived as a new/old enemy for the Federation of Planets because the Ferengi turned out to be a disappointing (and unintentionally comedic) foe for ST:TNG.
I always thought that the design for the Romulan Star Ship was terrific looking. It is an impressive and intimidating vessel to be sure. One of my favorite ship's from ST:TNG.
Romulan uniforms were meh.
I can't remember if the series ever did answer the question as to why the Romulans had been absent for so long? Glad they came back.
I agree, Captain Picard was unusually cold-blooded regarding the humans discovered in suspended animation.
Guess the writers & Patrick Stewart were still attempting to define Picard at this stage.
Still & all his lack of humanity was disturbing.
Peter Mark Richman is a fine actor that seemed to guest star on just about every TV show in the 60's & 70's & beyond.
It was interesting to see the change in the Romulan character from when they were first created on ST:TOS, then later with their revival on ST:TNG.
The Romulans were aliens who were warlike but also retained a certain honor and nobility on ST:TOS.
When they reappear on ST:TNG they are a devious & immoral culture with no honor whatsoever. |
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johnnybear Mission Specialist
Joined: 15 Jun 2016 Posts: 441
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Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Did anyone pick up on the Doctor Who stuff in this episode? If I remember clearly it was that the names of all the six actors who had played the character since the show's beginning were shown on screen as ancestors of Gracie! But you can only really read them if you're mighty quick and have an excellent quality picture to view!
JB |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3682 Location: New York
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:34 am Post subject: |
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"The Neutral Zone" May 16, 1988.
This episode was going to be a multi~part story which would have united the Federation of Planets with the Romulan Hegemony against the Borg invasion.
The Writers Guild strike at that time threw off that plan.
Data states that the current Earth year is 2364. Pinning down the precise Earth year on ST:TOS was something that was avoided during that series run.
The Romulans were brought back due to the underwhelming response by fans to the new Federation enemies the Ferengi.
TNZ introduces the awesome looking Romulan warbird from the D'deriex class.
The first mention of the Borg is made on this episode.
Last episode we see a clean-shaven William Riker.
Geordie & Worf wear their command division uniforms for the last time.
Last episode for Dr.Crusher until she returns in season #3.
She is replaced by Dr.Pulaski for season #2.
The writers wanted Pulaski to be similar in nature to the original show's Dr.McCoy by having her character as quaintly cranky. However, she mostly comes off as very acerbic and not likable.
Some fans found this episode to be too similar to ST:TOS "Space Seed."
Both episodes do share the same premise of humans from the past who are in suspended animation being discovered by the Enterprise.
Aside from the cryonic aspect of both episodes TNZ takes the idea in an entirely different direction and one I found interesting.
Just what would it be like to have faced a life threatening disease in one's lifetime, then being subjected to a cryonic sleep only to be revived centuries later---and fully cured?
We watch these people go from shock, sadness, attempted suicide to acceptance of their respective new lives.
The traumatic stress of the situation of these people was something we all could relate to if it happened to us.
Yes, its wonderful you are alive and cured but everyone you loved and knew are long deceased.
How do you find your way in a new century chock full of amazing technology, aliens, and cultural differences from your era?
In ST:TOS time travel episode "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" the Enterprise has to consider what will happen to 20th century US military pilot Captain Christopher who has been beamed aboard the Enterprise.
If the star ship can return to its 23rd century with the captain how will he fit into that age?
Kirk doubts that the good captain could be properly retrained to ease smoothly into a society 300 years after the captain's time.
So if it would be impossible for a highly trained military pilot to become acclimated to the distant future, I have to wonder about these 3 individuals rescued by the Enterprise in TNZ episode?
This dilemma is never addressed in TNZ.
I guess a Hallmark Card ending was decided by the producers. |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Pow wrote: | Data states that the current Earth year is 2364. Pinning down the precise Earth year on ST:TOS was something that was avoided during that series run. |
G.R. didn't want to pin down a date for "Star Trek". The closest they came was in "The Squire of Gothos", which indicates that S.T. takes place in either the 26th, or 27th century. This is due to the 900 year time it would have taken for light from Earth to reach Gothos.
David. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17558 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Krel wrote: | G.R. didn't want to pin down a date for "Star Trek". The closest they came was in "The Squire of Gothos", which indicates that S.T. takes place in either the 26th, or 27th century. This is due to the 900 year time it would have taken for light from Earth to reach Gothos. |
Wow, this I confusing. I thought ST: TOS was in the 23rd century because this is what appears on screen as the opening credits for The Wrath of Khan finished and the training exercise began.
The Wrath of Khan was just a few years after ST: TOS ended. So, which century is correct? David, your dates are 300 to 400 years later!
And Timeline of Star Trek - Wikipedia states this.
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The franchise is primarily set in the future, ranging from the mid-22nd century (Star Trek: Enterprise) to the late-24th century (Star Trek: Picard). _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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johnnybear Mission Specialist
Joined: 15 Jun 2016 Posts: 441
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Confusing indeed especially when Kirk quotes two hundred years in a couple of episodes rather than the near three centuries we accept today or the nine hundred years hinted at in Squire of Gothos! I always found it odd that a prominent actor like Mark Richman never appeared in the original series of Trek as this guy was everywhere in the sixties!!!
JB |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3682 Location: New York
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Release the Nitpicks
Oddly enough, Data waits until after he & Worf beam over to the space relic to pronounce it has breathable air. Does this seem right? Granted, Data can survive without oxygen, but what about poor old Worf?
So the Enterprise is heading for a possible confrontation with the Romulans, right? Wouldn't this be a good time to separate the saucer section of the Enterprise and leave the families with children behind?
When describing cryonics to Captain Picard, Dr. Crusher, in a dismissive tone, calls it a fad. Yet apparently the "fad" had something going for it. There are three live human beings from the twentieth century in her sickbay!
For the first and last time in the series, this episode shows us a Romulan vessel in which the commander and subcommander sit side by side.
When data & Worf board the space relic containing the humans in suspended animation, there is air to breathe, the lights are on, and the vessel has gravity. Data explains this all by saying the ancient solar generator is still functioning.
Yet the solar panels seen in the outside shot seem badly damaged.
On top of that, why do you need an oxygen environment for freeze-dried humans?
Why do you need light? Why would you want to heat a capsule when you are trying to keep its contents cold?
Finally, if this vessel comes from the twentieth century, exactly how is generating gravity? Yes, it is spinning, but not nearly fast enough for its size, according to Mitzi Adams our solar physicist contributor.
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Bud Brewster wrote: |
The Wrath of Khan was just a few years after ST: TOS ended. So, which century is correct? David, your dates are 300 to 400 years later! |
Not my dates, the show's dates.
TOS was all over the map with timelines. In WNMHGB, the ship they were tracking had gone missing 175 years earlier. That would put the timeline past the 23rd century, maybe even the 24th.
In the episode where they go back in time and get caught on a U.S. Air Force base, Kirk is told he will be put away for 200 years. Kirk replies that'd be about right. It is a humors quip, so you can't take it as a serious timeline.
I consider the movies to take place in an alternate universe due to the differences with the TV show.
The SOG is still the only episode to give a firm timeline.
David. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17558 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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David, you said yourself that, "TOS was all over the map with timelines."
You're accepting the flawed math of TOS and coming up with a century that disagrees with the one accepted by the Star Trek fans who use the date stated by websites like Memory Alpha.
Google the question, "In what century did Star Trek TOS take place?" and you get this. It's a quote from Memory Alpha, the Trek Bible.
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Star Trek was set in the 23rd century and featured the voyages of the starship USS Enterprise.
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If you're going to assume that some sources are wrong and other are right, why accept the one which you stated yourself was "all over the map with timelines"? _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel Guest
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Don't care. They're all wrong.
Yes, they were all over the place with time, but the SOG is the only episode to state a concrete timeline, so I will stick with the TV show, not some decades later retcon.
Dance with the one what brung ya'.
Fair warning, there's a very good reason that they put "Obstinate" on my name tag at a place I worked at.
David. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17558 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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________________________________
Well, doggone it, David — you kinda got me on this one! The defense of your opinion is solid and logical . . . in it's own special way.
However, in the interest of adding enjoyable and intelligent debates to All Sci-Fi, let's examine your assertion that 900 years have passed between the events Trelane "observed" and the current time the episode took place.
Krel wrote: | S.T. takes place in either the 26th, or 27th century. This is due to the 900 year time it would have taken for light from Earth to reach Gothos |
I assume you're basing the distance on the fact that in the pre-credits scene, Kirk says the Enterprise is 900 light years from Earth. The light-year distance also is repeated later in the episode.
So, obviously you are correct that light coming from the Solar System would in fact take 900 years to reach Gothos.
But here's the problem.
Could light traveling all the way from Earth to Gothos somehow be turned it images of selected events that Trelane could observe?
After all, even if it was technologically possible to do that with light waves, it assumes that they wouldn't be seriously distorted along the way by stars, planets, asteroids, and 900 light years of interstellar dust!
I suspect your initial theory was inspired by the comment the crewman in the landing party made when he tells Kirk that observing events from 900 hundred years in the past would be "what might be seen through a viewing scope if it were powerful enough to — "
But Trelane interrupts him and says, "Ah yes! I've been looking in on the doings of your lively little Earth!"
He doesn't say how he accomplished this "looking in" on Earth . . . but I can prove that it wasn't done just by using 900-year-old light waves!
For the moment let's assume that Trelane was able to construct such a "viewing scope" and observe a bird's eye view of the surface of Earth as it would appear from Gothos.
Unfortunately, he still couldn't learn all the things about Earth he mentions.
Why do I say that?
It's obvious! He couldn't HEAR anything that was said on Earth just by using his super-telescope!
And yet Trelane speaks French to crewman LaSalle, and then German to officer Yeager! So, how did he learn French, German, and English just by studying images created by 900-year-old light waves?
Here's another revealing clue. Trelane says, "You know, I admire your Napoleon very much."
David, how did he learn the names of all the famous people he speaks of, just from observing ancient light waves?
Consider also the statement Trelane makes when he says, "Oh, I did so want to make you feel at home. I'm quite proud of the detail." He gestures at the interior of the room and all it's decorations.
But how did he see detailed images of the interior of buildings with his super-telescope on Gothos?
It seems clear from all this that Trelane did NOT just observe Earth 900 years ago simply by looking through an impossibly powerful telescope which miraculously transform degraded light waves into sharp images with a clear audio and the ability to go into buildings to admire the decor!
Therefore, sir, I submit that you're mistaken when you assume that all of the Star Trek series took place 900 years in our future, just because this one lighthearted episode included a questionable premise that can't be logically explained.
David, I suspect that right now you're thinking, "Hey, I never said he had a super-telescope!"
True enough . . . but the character in the episode did say something like that, and your whole argument is based on the assumption that Trelane's "observations" are 900 years old because he observed light waves that would take that long to reach him.
Trelane did, of course, "observed" Earth from 900 years ago . . . but NOT just by looking at centuries-old light waves, as you've asserted. Trelane somehow observed our HISTORY from 900 years ago, getting "up close and personal" with the people and the culture by receiving both sounds and visual images.
He could only have done that with his god-like powers, perhaps with the help of the device he had behind the mirror.
Frankly I think it more likely that he did what Q was capable of — instantly go to Earth, 900 years ago, and studying the people and the culture. That's really the only way he could be so knowledgeable about the history of the era.
And yet the poor silly dope thought it was Earth's present!
To Summarize: If Trelane only observed 900-year-old light waves from Earth, his observations would be limited to just what our own spy satellites can see — everything viewed from directly overhead!
And no audio!
Thus he would not know most of the information about Earth which he either stated or displayed in this home.
So, if his observations were done with his god-like powers, then it had nothing to do with light waves or the distance to Earth. Therefore his wacky notion that he had studied Earth in the present was . . . just stupidity.
After all, he was just an unintelligent and immature child-like god-being who whined to his parents when he said at the end, "I just wanted to have a little fun! You never let me have any fun!"
However, David, I know that you are neither unintelligent nor immature. In fact, you were honest enough to admit you were obstinate.
And since the definition of obstinate is this —
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stubbornly refusing to change one's opinion or chosen course of action, despite attempts to persuade one to do so.
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— I suspect that all the fun I've had poking holes in your theory probably won't convince you that you're mistaken.
But I do respect that, sir. You just keep right on dancing with the one what brung ya'. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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