ALL SCI-FI

Gord Green · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:51 am Post subject: The Man Who Bought Mars

"We now know the full extent of SpaceX founder and CEO Elon Musk's Mars colonization plan and his incredible Interplanetary Transport System. To be honest, it sounds insane.

As early as 2024, a group of Mars-bound interplanetary SpaceX astronauts will board a gigantic SpaceX spacecraft likely named "Heart of Gold" to rocket off to Mars, a place from which they may or may not ever return. Musk's hope, though, is that they stay on the barren red planet and build the infrastructure that will sustain future life. Musk methodically ticked off the details of his radical plan on Tuesday at a special presentation,

Musk methodically ticked off the details of his radical plan on Tuesday at a special presentation, carefully outlining each component, checkpoint and hurdle. The scale of the undertaking is almost beyond comprehension; the virtually insurmountable hurdles from the realm of science fiction."

Read this interesting article by Lance Ulanoff here---

http://mashable.com/2016/09/28/elon-musk-mars-plan-analysis/#dq6rljQ9Laqh

This is really going to happen. Musk has , so far, made inroads in every endeavor he has planned.

There are also videos of his presentation on Youtube and his vision of the colonizer ship is VERY sci-fi retro!

Check it out.

Custer · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:23 am Post subject:

The "Heart of Gold" name would seem to be in honour of the Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy spaceship that Zaphod Beeblebrox, er, borrowed... not sure if Elon Musk's craft is powered by an Infinite Improbability Drive, though...

Bud Brewster · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:16 am Post subject:

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I hate to say it, but I just don't get the appeal of going to Mars, folks. To me, Mars is just the Moon with a lot of inclement weather. Or Utah, but without the highways, hotels, and National Parks.

Why go there? It's like learning Latin.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

Brent Gair · Mission Specialist Joined: 21 Nov 2014 Posts: 466

Bud Brewster · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:19 pm Post subject:

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Stirring words, Brent. Here, here. Bravo!

But why Mars?

What does it have that's worth the cost and the risk to human life? A journey to Mars is just a long trip with a disappointing destination.

I agree with you about "making big plans and reaching beyond our grasp", but we need to pick our goals wisely. We've romanticized and glorified Mars for centuries, and now that we know it's not even a nice place to visit (never mind living there!), why do we want to go there so badly?

The only reasons you offered for going to Mars were variations on George Mallory's less-than-brilliant reply to the question, "Why did you climb Mt. Everest?"

"Because it was there."

Admittedly it was a grand adventure, a personal challenge, and a great view from the top. I mean, this is a lot more appealing than Mars!

All I'm saying, Brent, is that Mars is a piss-poor goal. Let's build a space station instead! And a colony on the Moon. And send teams to Europa and Ganymede and Enceladus to see if there are oceans under the ice that have complex life forms. (Bacteria under the Martian soil is boring. Rolling Eyes

)

I said it before and I'll say it again — going to Mars is like learning Latin. If you want to learn a second language, why learn a dead one?

Mars just doesn't seem like the best place to "boldly go . . . just because no man has been there before."

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

Brent Gair · Mission Specialist Joined: 21 Nov 2014 Posts: 466

In other words, Bud, you want to find a way to bore people to death rather than inspire them?

Space station? Yeah...kinda had enough of that 40+ years ago with Skylab. By the time Salyut and Mir came along, nobody cared. ISS? Nice but this is all past the point of stirring the imagination.

Colony on the moon. OK. But, like a space station, continuing to refine 40 and 50 year undertakings won't move the public. People were already tiring of the moon by the time of Apollo 12.

If this was 1971, you and I would be on the same page.

The moons of Jupiter and Saturn? I could easily get onboard with that. But those likely aren't places where humanity can establish itself. Man can sustain himself on Mars. Some years ago, I read Robert Zubrin's book THE CASE FOR MARS (which I can't seem to find now) and he demonstrated a number of technologies such as synthesizing rocket fuel from the Martian atmosphere. With the effort and technology, Mars can sustain mankind.

I would say that visits to those moons you suggest would be even more like a visit to Everest...places to explore but not a place to establish a new human outpost. As such, a visit to Enceladus (although I'd support it) would be less impactful to humanity than the establishment of a permanent human expansion to Mars.

Gord Green · Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:11 pm Post subject:

Well Bud ------

"Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur. Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se differunt. Gallos ab Aquitanis Garumna flumen, a Belgis Matrona et Sequana dividit."

I learned Latin (As well as Classical Greek) because I wanted a "classical" education and felt if I could master them I could attempt anything else.

But to the subject ----

I think Brent is right. Musk's plan at least is a move forward into the Solar System and all those future explorations need a starting point and Mars is it.

"The Case For Mars" is also an excellent video.
(Available on Youtube - here-The Mars Underground-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcTZvNLL0-w

Reaction fuel CAN be manufactured on Mars as well as water and oxygen and be much more cost effective than pushing it up the Earth's gravity well.

Besides, Mars has always been in the psyche of man since he first looked to the heavens.

Bud Brewster · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:39 pm Post subject:

Gord Green · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:51 pm Post subject:

In 1492 AD the VAST majority of Europeans were only interested in where their next meal would come from .

Exploration and scientific and social advances were the farthest things on their lists. Yet....There were a small few, who for their own reasons (mostly greed!) spurred the exploration of the world and the use of its' resources.

I understand your point of view, and the validity of your points.

But I just darned can't go along with it! I guess we all have our own visions.

Bud Brewster · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:11 pm Post subject:

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We both want the same thing. I'm just offering a more realistic way to get it. A colony on Mars is dull and expensive.

Let's do something more exciting! Very Happy

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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

MetroPolly · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:34 pm Post subject:

Don't worry, Bud, I'm behind you. I'm of the opinion that before we ship people to Mars (although that might be a great way to deal with certain politicians), we should work on putting our own house in order first.

Bud Brewster · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:23 pm Post subject:

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Thanks, Polly! Very Happy

However, waiting until the world is a better place before we take on challenges like the ones being discussed above is like saying, "I''ll start going to the gym as soon as I fell more energetic."

Going to the gym is what you do to make yourself fell more energetic.

Taking on challenges like the ones discussed above is the way to improve our society. It's the solution to the problem — not a reward for solving the problem first.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

Gord Green · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:12 pm Post subject:

But Bud, no one is saying we shouldn't have those things too!

We want them all — A cis-lunar space station, a LaGrange point station and observatory, extended exploration of the outer planets, and in time — far beyond.

But governments have been unable to sustain those dreams.

Maybe it takes ONE crazy billionaire to "make it so."

It took a couple hundred years to go from mud whattle huts at the New Amsterdam colony to the skyscrapers of New York!

Per aspera ad astra

Yes, that's Latin. It means "Through Hard work to the stars!"

Have hope — Dream BIG!

Bud Brewster · Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject:

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Well, that's the best suggestion yet!

Through difficulties, to the stars!

If we have vast resources and don't need to prioritize the projects, a Mars colony can certainly be included in an ambitious space program. But if we do have to pick the most valuable projects to fund, I think I've shown that the least effective way to inspire a general interest in space exploration is a colony on Mars.

Space stations and lunar colonies provide a way for large numbers of people to actually become involved in the space program, instead of just supporting it with their tax dollars while they wonder what they're getting for their money.

And both lunar colonies and space stations have ways to benefit the people here on Earth. For example, lunar colonies can include mining operations, and space stations can serve as repair centers for our vast array of communications satellites.

In fact, the space stations themselves would be equipped to take over the work of many satellites, with maintenance crews constantly there to keep the equipment operational.
_________________
____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

Gord Green · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:45 pm Post subject:

I think the final words on the subject were said best----In 1936.

Raymond Passworthy:
Oh, God, is there ever to be any age of happiness? Is there never to be any rest?

Oswald Cabal:
Rest enough for the individual man - too much, and too soon - and we call it death. But for Man, no rest and no ending. He must go on, conquest beyond conquest. First this little planet with its winds and ways, and then all the laws of mind and matter that restrain him. Then the planets about him and at last out across immensity to the stars. And when he has conquered all the deeps of space and all the mysteries of time, still he will be beginning.

Raymond Passworthy:
But... we're such little creatures. Poor humanity's so fragile, so weak. Little... little animals.

Oswald Cabal:
Little animals. If we're no more than animals, we must snatch each little scrap of happiness and live and suffer and pass, mattering no more than all the other animals do or have done. Is it this? Or that? All the universe? Or nothingness? Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?
. . .