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Forbidden Planet (1956)
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert (Butch)Day wrote:
I found this in my archives. Sorry for the size. To reduce it looses detail.

I embedded your larger version in a 700 pixel version, so you can still see the bigger one, but if you'll compare the two I think you'll find that the original really doesn't have much detail to loose. The only text that's even legible is the large title at the top. Sad
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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. I wanted to post this because of some questions I wanted to start a discussion on. Just how did the crew & scientists of the EX-101 Bellerophon find the entrance to the Krell Lab? Is this what the Krell started with? Why did the Krell make the lab so impenetrable? (It seems that despite what Dr, Morbius stated they did have some enemies. In many respects they appeared more like the Tar-Ayim of Alan Dean Foster.)

Thoughts?

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Krel
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can assume that the entrance was covered by rubble, which might have looked different that the surroundings. The complex had power, and if there was climate control in the corridor, then they might have found it by temperature difference around the buried entrance. Or there might have been some signal bleed from the damaged entrance, that their instruments could detect.

Hard to tell when we don't know what equipment they had. This goes back to the discussion we had earlier about the Bellerophon expedition.

David.
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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent a PM to Bud of a French post card of Robby ans a nude French girl that was a give away for adult males to promote Forbidden Planet in France to try to get a more mature audience to see the movie. I hesitate to put this on the thread as we don't know the ages of any lurkers. If you want to see it PM him when he returns to the board.
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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes David, we discussed this at some length last year. Too bad five or more pages of our discussion got lost during the conversion of ASF to its' new server.

Basicly I think the Bell# expedition picked up the energy output from the Krellian furnace just like the C-57d did and that's why it landed close to the mountain ringed oasis by the desert. They discovered the buried entrance much like Howard Carter uncovered King Tut's tomb. They then excavated around the area and set up the area which was later to become the foundation Morbius had his residence constructed upon. I think that that is the most logical explanation anyway.

And....Yes Butch, there are some comparison to the Tar-Ayim Krang of A.D. Foster.

Optional scenarios more than welcome!

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Maurice
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert (Butch) Day wrote:
Yes, QUITE different. Sorry it is taking so long.

I found this in my archives. Sorry for the size. To reduce it looses detail.




I wonder if it is similar to what the EX-101 Bellerophon crew found?

<scratches head>
What's significant about this?
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Maurice
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Brewster wrote:
________________________________

I don't know if IMDB will approve the trivia item shown below which I submitted today, but I couldn't resist taking a shot, because it's bothered me for years that the inferior special effects in The Ten Commandments received the FX Oscar in 1956 when Forbidden Planet should have been the clear winner!

Anyway, here's what I submitted.
________________________________

Although the elaborate special effects in The Ten Commandments are impressive, many film historians and movie fans feel that MGM's Forbidden Planet should have gotten the FX Oscar in 1956. However, since Forbidden Planet was basically a B movie that turned out remarkable well because the film crew exceeded the budget after they became so enthusiastic about the project, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences decided that Paramount's colossal religious epic was a more appropriate choice for the FX Oscar.
________________________________

Ill let you folks know if they actually accept my submission. Cool

Is that actual trivia or just opinion? And which "Many film critics"? [Citation needed] Wink
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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice wrote:
What's significant about this?

To Start a concept.

The Krell had to start somewhere. The original entrance is on the right. Then the tunnel. (We don't know how long the actual tunnel from the study to the lab entrance was. Sets are kely to only what is needed for budget purposes.)

The Krell lab itself in the middle.

The other Krell labs mentioned by Dr. Morbius on the left.

The rest of the complex below.

Does this sound reasonable?

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

I'm going to be frank by confessing some skepticism concerning Butch's promise to have a copy of an "earlier version" of the Forbidden Planet script.

Here's why.

Gord made the comment below when he posted the first page of the script which Maurice placed in Archive.org.
________________________________________

The dates are a bit confusing, but it looks like this is dated complete on 9/3/54.

The scripts Butch is talking about are earlier drafts from Feb 1954.

________________________________________

But then I think Gord made a typical “Bud Brewster typo” when he said this after I suggested that the one on Archive.org was the one Butch had. Embarassed
________________________________________

No Bud, Butch's script is from FEBRUARY 1953, an earlier draft of the script. I would suspect it is quite different in some ways from the later September version!
________________________________________

Gord obviously meant February 1954, of course.

But the issue here is that Butch says he’s got a script dated February 14, 1954 and one dated August 26, 1954. However, I should point out an important relevant fact: the copy of the script on archive.org says —

Script dated: 8/26/54
Run: 9/8/54

So, we already have the second of the two scripts Butch promised to post. Shocked

As for the earlier one from February of that same year . . . I just don’t think it exists. Sad

The Cinefantastique article states on page 7 (jpeg number 6 on my post) that Adler and Block first pitched the concept verbally for Fatal Planet to Nicholas Nayfack in the spring of 1954.

And that, folks, raises a fascinating question.

How could there be a script dated February 14, 1954 when the concept wasn’t even presented to MGM until the spring of that year?

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Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Maurice
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert (Butch) Day wrote:
Maurice wrote:
What's significant about this?

To Start a concept.

The Krell had to start somewhere. The original entrance is on the right. Then the tunnel. (We don't know how long the actual tunnel from the study to the lab entrance was. Sets are kely to only what is needed for budget purposes.)

The Krell lab itself in the middle.

The other Krell labs mentioned by Dr. Morbius on the left.

The rest of the complex below.

Does this sound reasonable?

The Krell didn't need to start with a cave. If you've got the tech to build the thing we saw they built, tunneling into a mountain is something a "low grade moron" Krell child could do. Smile
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Robert (Butch) Day
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost certainly true.

But I can't believe that the Krell would have built the machine right on top or near what would be Altair IV's magnetic North pole. That only would make sense for the landing C-75-D.

Also the concept that the Krell were a "frog-like" species "with a dragging tail" (statement by cinematographer George Folsey, Jr.) in a hot polar desert is inconsistent with a "frog-like" species.

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Gord Green
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butch, it would certainly make sense that the Krell would place their power plant (the Krell Furnace) below ground to keep it shielded by levels of rock. Also the climatic environment of Altair-4 could change VERY much in the over 200,000 years since the "Night of Destruction" so what is now desert may well have been lush vegetation at the time it was originaly constructed.

As Morbius relates, all above ground structures were gone...Only the sub Altarian constructions remained and that the lab we see in the movie was only one of many (But the others were not needed to be shown.).

The tunnel leading from Morbius's study may mave been originaly longer, possibly leading to an above ground edifice now crumbled to dust.

The Bellerophon Expedition may have located it by tracing the source of the power output of the Furnace.

NOTE to Bud....You're right , I messed up the date.

I DO know that there were earlier drafts of the script so if Butch has access to any of these I'd very much love to see them. Either Butch will or won't be able to post them....I'll be patient and wait to see. It would be great if he would post even the cover page to show good faith.

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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

________________________________

Perhaps Butch doesn't means a a shooting script for Forbidden Planet, he means the "treatment" (a description of the concept) by Adler and Block for Fatal Planet, the original story set in 1976 on Mercury.

That's what he posted a cropped page from earlier. It's actually dated 11/11/52.



Since Adler and Block first pitched the story to Nicholas Nayfack in the "spring of 1954" (according to the Cinefantasique article, which could mean as early as March), I don't see how a version of the script could have been competed by February — at least a month before MGM was presented with the concept.

According the Cinefantasique article, after the story was extensively revised and the name was changed to Forbidden Planet, Cyril Hume was hired to write the script.

It would have taken him at least a month to write it. So, the earliest version would be completed no earlier than April or May. Of course there still might be a prior version of the August 26th script, and if so I'm sure we'd all like to compare the drafts.

However, Butch sent me this sample of what he's preparing to post. He called it the "raw" version, meaning "not yet cropped".



I puzzled by the fact that this is a screen shot of a word processor page, not a scan from the Yearbook he said the scripts were in. It appears that Butch is painstakingly transcribing the script from his source, which is certainly improving the clarity, but he's left off info that an actual script page would have . . . like the date in the upper right-hand corner.

Here's the archive.net version from the same scene described above.



Notice that near the bottom of page above we see Morbius' line, "In times long past, this planet was the home of a mighty and noble race of beings . . . "

However, Butch's transcription below (cropped and enlarged) says this.

" . . . this planet was the homeworlds of a mighty and noble race of beings . . . "

Homeworlds (plural) is grammatically incorrect, of course.



I've sent Butch a PM asking him to please post scans of the actual pages, with all the extra info, like the date of the draft. It might be more difficult to read, but at least we'd be sure that changes in the dialog weren't just typos! Laughing

Gord was hoping to see a cover page. Here's the one from archive.net, compliments of Maurice. Cool



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Maurice
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert (Butch) Day wrote:
Also the concept that the Krell were a "frog-like" species "with a dragging tail" (statement by cinematographer George Folsey, Jr.) in a hot polar desert is inconsistent with a "frog-like" species.

And humans evolved for African climes, not arctic ones, and yet...Eskimos for thousands of years, and McMurdo Station today. You're telling us super-genius Krell couldn't make desert attire and electrically-heated tail socks? C'mon, Butch. Laughing

Gord Green wrote:
I DO know that there were earlier drafts of the script so if Butch has access to any of these I'd very much love to see them. Either Butch will or won't be able to post them....I'll be patient and wait to see. It would be great if he would post even the cover page to show good faith.

I am always deeply skeptical of transcribed anythings, because there are so many fan-created or fan-altered works out there. If I don't see convincing photos of the pages, I'm not buying it. Butch could be unwittingly working off some clever fan-made fake for all we know.
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Bud Brewster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice wrote:
I am always deeply skeptical of transcribed anythings, because there are so many fan-created or fan-altered works out there. If I don't see convincing photos of the pages, I'm not buying it. Butch could be unwittingly working off some clever fan-made fake for all we know.

Exactly, Maurice! Shocked

And Butch's history of making claims that turned out to be false makes me suspicious of the fact that he produced a version of the page that had no date on it. Even if he'd copied the info such as the page numbers and the date on each page, I'd still wonder why he won't just post scans or screen shots.

I'm going to download the archive.net version you so kindly provided, then enhance the text as best I can (it's not great because it's a copy-of-a-copy etc, but its legible), and then I'm going to hunt for differences between it and the final version of the film.

I've already found a half-dozen deleted-or-rewritten lines of dialog I want to post about. It will be fun!
Very Happy
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