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scotpens
Space Sector Commander
Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 919
Location: The Left Coast
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 Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | Strictly speaking, there's no such thing as "silent movies" -- as in "a movie the audience watches in complete silence".
As stated above, the old movie theaters did everything they could to provide sound effects and music while the silent movies were playing. |
"Silent film" is a term that was coined retroactively after the introduction of synchronized sound. In many languages, silent films are literally called "mute" films -- a much more accurate term meaning "not speaking" or "lacking the power of speech." |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Good point, Scotpens. I didn't know that. 
What I meant, of course, was that film makers never really wanted movies to be silent, they just didn't have any choice until the technology made it possible to have sound with film.
We sort of lost sight of the topic here, folks. Krel said it beautifully several posts back when I made a silly remark about how you can't have music in movies about space travel because there there's air for the horn players to blow into their instruments!
| krel wrote: | I brought this point up at a few conventions back in the late 70s/80s with the no sound in space people. They looked at me like I was crazy! 
Their argument was that it is a movie, you have to have music! My counter argument was that it is a movie, you have to have sound!
They didn't get the point. |
When I pretended that there couldn't be music in space scenes, it was just my silly way of saying that the soundtrack of a movie -- both the music and the sound effects -- has nothing to do with whether or not there's air in the vicinity. All those wonderful noises -- again, both the music and the sound effects -- are there to make the movie more enjoyable.
Quibbling over the inclusion of a few sounds for dramatic effect is like criticizing a scene that takes place in a dark cave because there's enough light to see the actors!
Krel's point was that a movie needs an audio -- both music and sound effects -- to be dramatically effective.
Before movies were able to provide their own audio, "silent" movies were accompanied by piano music, organ music, record players -- anything that would fill that awful silence that occurred when people just sat in the dark and stared at a flickering image on a screen!
Butch said some of his favorites movies were silent films, but I'm sure he doesn't turn the volume off on his TV and deny himself the music that every single DVD of those ancient classics provide.
So, when I said "there's really no such thing as silent movies", I meant that people have never been satisfied to simply watch movies in silence.
As Krel's story about the discussion at the convention showed, even the people who scoff at the idea of sounds in space proclaimed that -- "it's a movie. You have to have music."
And Krel countered with -- "it is a movie, you have to have sound."
As we can see from the history of motion pictures, going all the way back to the "silent movie" era, audiences demand both sound and music.
And they've always gotten them, too -- one way or another.
So, I stand by my statement: There's no such thing as silent movies.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pye-Rate
Starship Navigator
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I am watching Blake's 7 on You Tube the space battles there closer to realistic, including ramming speed. It was this way to not spend the budget they did not have. |
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orzel-w
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1865
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | So, when I said "there's really no such thing as silent movies", I meant that people have never been satisfied to simply watch movies in silence.
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So, I stand by my statement: There's no such thing as silent movies. |
I have boxes full of silent movies in the closet. They're old 8mm and Super8 home movies.
Hah! Gotcha!
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WayneO
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Krel
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| orzel-w wrote: | I have boxes full of silent movies in the closet. They're old 8mm and Super8 home movies.
Hah! Gotcha! |
I hesitate to inquire about the subject matter of these 8mm and Super8 films. 
David. |
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orzel-w
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1865
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Krel wrote: | | I hesitate to inquire about the subject matter of these 8mm and Super8 films. |
Nothing exciting enough to be hesitant about, David.
Birthdays, Christmas, vacations, relatives, pets, yadda, more yadda...
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WayneO
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | | So, when I said "there's really no such thing as silent movies", I meant that people have never been satisfied to simply watch movies in silence. |
And when your family sits down to watch those happy home movies, not a word is spoken until the film ends, of course. No talking, no laughing, no comments during the part where Uncle Max leaned over the Christmas punch bowl and his toupee fell in.
If that's the case, then the gotcha is valid and I was mistaken when I said, " . . . people have never been satisfied to simply watch movies in silence."
So, with that in mind, ummm . . . who got whom?
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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orzel-w
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1865
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Apart from not remembering the shot of Uncle Max, I concede... and withdraw the gotcha.
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WayneO
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Robert (Butch) Day
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 1377
Location: Arlington, WA USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | | So, with that in mind, ummm . . . who got whom? |
Isn't that "Who's on 1st?"
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Common Sense ISN'T Common |
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ralfy
Mission Specialist
Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Check out the TV show Firefly. |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| ralfy wrote: | | Check out the TV show Firefly. |
Hey, good call. About the only sound they have in space on that show is the violin music.
_________________
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gord Green
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 3001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Strictly speaking movies have NO relation to reality. Nor should they. Movies play on how the presentation affects your sensations of the perceived reality.
I don't know about you, but I have had a perpetual soundtrack running in my mind all throughout my life.
Sometimes I think my life is a Broadway musical with no real plot!
But all that aside, movie starship battles have little to do with reality. After all, why should they swoop and spin around when a well placed, computer guided missle or railgun will do the job from a well protected behind an asteroid point of placement! |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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My favorite silent movie is Comic Voyage (1936), and the wonderful YouTube video has an orchestral accompaniment — but unfortunately it makes no attempt to reflect the changing mood and scenes.
A few other silent movies, however, have specific scores composed for them, and these benefited the movie.
If you watch Comic Voyage on YouTube, click on the "sprocket" icon at the lower right to get the settings menu, then change the playback speed from "normal" to 0.75.
It will cause this 18 fps movie to play at 75% of 24 fps — which is 18 fps! The actors moments will look perfectly normal, with no jerkiness caused by the speed adjustment. And the music will not change pitch, it will just play at a slightly slower tempo.
_____________________ Cosmic Voyage (1936)
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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scotpens
Space Sector Commander
Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 919
Location: The Left Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert (Butch) Day wrote: | | Most of the theaters didn't have the facility to amplify what sounds were recorded on the old Edison records. So the audience was deprived of what little sound that was available. |
It was more a problem of synchronization than amplification. It took almost three decades to develop a system that could keep the soundtrack synchronized with the picture. The early Vitaphone talkies had the sound on specially formatted disc records, one disc per reel, which played on a turntable that was mechanically synchronized with the projector.
| Robert (Butch) Day wrote: | | The larger theaters had live musical shows, called "prologues", often themed to the main movie, before the movie. A perfect example of these shows can be seen in the James Cagney 1933 film Footlight Parade. The most spectacular one in Footlight Parade is "By a Waterfall", which inspired Robert A. Heinlein's waterfall sequence in Glory Road. |
Of course, those Busby Berkeley extravaganzas were pure fantasy. There was no way those elaborate production numbers could have been staged on Broadway, let alone in a movie theater!
BTW, my favorite musical number from Footlight Parade is the final one, "Shanghai Lil." The song conjures up the image of a seductive Asian femme fatale who drives men mad. When the exotic, mysterious Shanghai Lil finally appears, she turns out to be Ruby Keeler in bad Chinese makeup! |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| scotpens wrote: | | BTW, my favorite musical number from Footlight Parade is the final one, "Shanghai Lil." The song conjures up the image of a seductive Asian femme fatale who drives men mad. When the exotic, mysterious Shanghai Lil finally appears, she turns out to be Ruby Keeler in bad Chinese makeup! |
I remember that production number very well!
Perhaps the sight of Ruby Keeler in bad Chinese makeup drove all the good Asian actors crazy because of how Hollywood misrepresented them in so many ways. 
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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