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| Rate "Rocketship X-M (1950)" |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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David, can we please clarity just whose "house" is being broke into?
Is Mars OUR house? 
We landed on their planet, uninvited. We had no right to be there, so whatever they did to uninvited intruders on their own planet was not murder.
The owner of the property is not committing murder if he attacks an unwanted intruder and causes his death, especially if the intruder is armed — which the astronauts were! They had rifles, and they shot at the Martians.
Therefore, THEY were the burglars!
That said, who has the right to attack whom?
David, you've got it backwards. If a man comes into my house uninvited and won't leave, I have the right to attack him for invading my home . . . especially if he's armed with a rifle.
YOUR argument condemns US . . . not them! 
_________________
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Bud, wrong on every count. You talked about a burglar entering YOUR home, killing YOU and getting off. I thought my reply pretty clear on who's house it was.
If someone is lost, walking across your land uninvited, not making hostile movies and not knowing that someone owns the property, and you kill them. You are going to be charged with murder. Because that is what you did.
The X-M crew weren't invaders, they were travelers, who were off course. They were explorers, not conquers. They were attacked and responded. Unlike you I believe that they had the God given right of self defense.
David. |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Krel wrote: | | Also, killing someone who is trying to murder you, isn't "sacrificing" them. |
David, you completely misunderstood my use of the word "sacrifice". Here's what I said.
| Bud Brewster wrote: | | The expedition's Prime Directive would be to establish a base which is well protected from the Martians. And yet the scientist would also take an oath to die rather than sacrifice the lives of the indigenous population! |
In this case the word "sacrifice" means the expedition members would give up (sacrifice) their own lives rather than take (sacrifice) the lives of the Martians.
You didn't understand what I meant, so you said this.
| Krel wrote: | | . . . killing someone who is trying to murder you, isn't "sacrificing" them. |
Actually, it is. You have a choice: Sacrifice your own life to keep from killing someone . . . of sacrifice their life to protect yours.
I also said this.
| Bud Brewster wrote: | | The owner of the property is not committing murder if he attacks an unwanted intruder and causes his death, especially if the intruder is armed. |
Naturally I agree that the RXM people were not wrong to defend themselves when they were attacked. They landed on Mars with good intentions and without knowing there were any Martians.
But that is a very different situation than an expedition going to Mars to study the Martians . . . . and being willing to kill the Martians if they object to their presence!
Nothing you've said addresses the immorality of landing on an alien planet to study the inhabitants — and then shooting them if they don't want you there.
The simple fact is this: If we went to Mars to study the lost civilization and its survivors, we have a moral obligation to respect their lives and their homeland — and to avoid at all cost doing them any harm.
If the expedition members aren't willing to put the lives of the Martians above their own, then they SHOULDN'T BE THERE.
Just tell me — yes or no — do you agree with the statement above?
If you do, then we have the same moral opinion about the central point of this discussion. But if you don't, then we should just drop the subject.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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No Bud I don't think we are going to agree on this matter. We can't even agree on the definition of "sacrifice". 
David. |
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Gord Green
Galactic Ambassador
Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 3001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I say "Kill them all and let Ghu sort them out!"
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child. |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Well, I can at least clear up the confusion there. This is what Merriam-Webster says.
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a : destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else
b : something given up or lost
~ the sacrifices made by parents
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Which is similar to what I posted above. Both match, yet you still seem to believe that to TAKE someone else's life is to sacrifice them.
Both what you and I posted point out that to sacrifice, you are voluntarily giving something up, NOT having it taken from you.
If you attack me and I kill you, than I am TAKING your life from you, not sacrificing you
If there is any sacrificing being done, then it is by you, where you are willing to give up your life (the sacrifice) in your attempt to do me in.
You would not be sacrificing me, you would be TAKING my life from me by force. Believe me, there is no way that I will be going willingly, or without a BIG fight.
Now. If I climbed onto an altar, let you tie me down, then cutout my heart. Then I would be sacrificing my life.
But! If you dragged me, kicking, screaming, cursing and crying up to the altar, had a group tie me down, then cutout my heart. That WOULD NOT be a sacrifice, it would be murder. Even if I was drugged out of my gourd at the time.
Would I be willing to help the Martians? Sure, why not. Would I be willing to let them murder me without a HUGE fight? Not just no, but HELL NO!
I stand behind my belief of non-expendability.
David. |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Krel wrote: | Would I be willing to help the Martians? Sure, why not. Would I be willing to let them murder me without a HUGE fight? Not just no, but HELL NO!
I stand behind my belief of non-expendability. |
Well, forgive me for saying this, David, but if that's the way you feel, you should not volunteer to go to Mars on a humanitarian mission to study the Martians without adding to the misery those poor people already sufferer. 
Frankly, the Mars expedition doesn't need folks like you.
It needs brave and unselfish people who understand that you have no right to be there if you're willing to murder the Martians on their own land . . . just to preserve your life.
Stay home, David. Let the folks go to Mars who are willing to sacrifice themselves if necessary for the greater good and do the right and moral thing.
_________________
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:14 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Krel
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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They're called sacrificial lambs. Historically, they have a short lifespan.
Defending your life from those who are trying to take yours for just existing IS NOT murder. It is self defense.
To not defend your life, is known as suicide.
Given how the Martians reacted in the movie, I don't think that many, if any will be returning from your expedition.
I repeat the quote from Kerr Avon: I'm not stupid. I'm not expendable. And I'm not going.
So Bud, you get your wish.
David. |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Here's something we can agree on. 
This movie is enjoyable and well respected. But when you list the science errors, you begin to loose your fondness for it. Here's just a few. Add more if you'd like to.
~ The rocket engines malfunctioned, so the crew fiddled with the fuel mixture and made the engine so powerful it took them to Mars . . . and back. (Seems unlikely, to say the least).
~ When the altered fuel mixture was used to get the ship moving again after it stopped in space at the halfway point — (Wait . . . it did what? ) — the powerful thrust the ship could now achieve caused the entire crew to black out for most of the journey to Mars . . . which should have taken about a year. (That was one helluva blackout.)
~ The rocket was only designed for a trip to the Moon, but it ended up having enough fuel for a round trip to Mars! (How is that possible?)
~ The astronauts apparently had no plans to actually walk on the lunar surface, because we saw no spacesuits. Fortunately they took along those high-altitude oxygen masks which worked so well in the extremely thin Martian atmosphere.
~ Even though they took no spacesuits because they didn't plan to leave the ship and walk on the Moon, they took along a few pistols and rifles so they could . . . ummm . . . (Okay, I got nothing for this one.  )
There's plenty more goofs to discuss, but I don't want hog all the fun.
_________________
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | ~ The rocket was only designed for a trip to the Moon, but it ended up having enough fuel for a round trip to Mars! (How is that possible?)
~ The astronauts apparently had no plans to actually walk on the lunar surface, because we saw no spacesuits. Fortunately they took along those high-altitude oxygen masks which worked so well in the extremely thin Martian atmosphere.
~ Even though they took no spacesuits because they didn't plan to leave the ship and walk on the Moon, they took along a few pistols and rifles so they could . . . ummm . . . (Okay, I got nothing for this one. )
There's plenty more goofs to discuss, but I don't want hog all the fun. |
It was the improved fuel mixture that allowed the round trip...Well almost round trip, they didn't actually land back on Earth.
They did have spacesuits. Rockford's Father was fondling one of the helmets, talking about how he was itching to wear one, when he was told that the suits wouldn't be needed on Mars. Little did they know.
I could say how the firearms were in case they set down in a wilderness area on their return...But lets face it, it was the 1950s. ALL space explores with V2 type rockets carried pistols and rifles.
David. |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Krel wrote: | | It was the improved fuel mixture that allowed the round trip...Well almost round trip, they didn't actually land back on Earth. |
The idea that a spaceship crew could tinker with the fuel mixture and cause their Moon-bound spaceship to "accidentally" reach Mars in just a few hours while the crew was unconscious . . . is ridiculous.
Add to this the idea that the ship still has the power to decelerate from such a tremendous velocity, land on the planet, take off again, and almost make it back to Earth . . . well, hopefully you get my drift.
You're giving this movie more credit than it deserves.
_________________
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: |
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God bless the good folks at SpaceX! They're determined to give us the kind of spacecraft we yearned for when we were kids.
SpaceX Starship SN8 is being launched for a test flight today! You can watch it live on YouTube. It reminds me of the spacecraft in Rocketship X-M.
_________LIVE: Starship SN8 12.5km Test Flight
__________ 
This rocket is absolutely beautiful! Notice the cockpit canopy on top!
_________________
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Bud Brewster
Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 17637
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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IMDB has several interesting trivia items for this production.
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~ The film underwent several changes in concept before finally being filmed as it is.
Initially, producer-director Kurt Neumann wanted to make a movie about an expedition to Mars that encounters living dinosaurs, but producer Robert L. Lippert rejected the script.
Around the same time, special effects man Jack Rabin approached Lippert with a script about a space flight to the moon, to be called "Destination Moon". Producer George Pal, however, had just copyrighted that title for his own picture about a lunar mission — Destination Moon (1950) — but Lippert changed his mind and, to take advantage of the publicity for Pal's "Destination Moon", brought Neumann's and Rabin's ideas together for his own film about a spaceflight to the moon.
Subsequent threats of legal action from Pal forced Lippert to change the venue of his film from the moon back to the planet Mars--the locale in Neumann's original script.
Note from me: What a great backstory for this classic movie.
~ The film was originally to have been entitled "None Came Back", but writer-producer-director Kurt Neumann changed it to "Rocketship X-M" because the initial title gave away the film's ending
Note from me: I gotta agree — that title sucks, for exactly the reason named above.
_________________
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Krel
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Brewster wrote: | ~ The film was originally to have been entitled "None Came Back", but writer-producer-director Kurt Neumann changed it to "Rocketship X-M" because the initial title gave away the film's ending.
Note from me: I gotta agree — that title sucks, for exactly the reason named above. |
Also it's a really HUGE spoiler.
David. |
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