ALL SCI-FI

[Gord Green]

Bud wrote:

[Bud Brewster]

[Gord Green]

Not pessimistic at all...pragmatic and practical. That's what the question the film asks. Divine signs or coincidences? Hardly pointless. All signs are evidences leading to a conclusion.
Every man finds his own solution.
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Bud Brewster]

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Forgive me, my friend, but I'm appalled by your suggestion that the story might have an alternative explanation.

You seem to think that "story-wise", the signs could have all been coincidences! Viewing this movie as someone who is "pragmatic and practical" is like watching The Sound of Music when you're tone-deaf!

If your sad assertion were true, the director of this movie blatantly tricked us into thinking those "coincidences" were examples of divine intervention.

And your suggestion that each viewer could choose to believe whatever he wants . . . is illogical!

In other words, "truth" is relative to each person.

Gord, I understand the idea that some movies leave important questions unresolved to tease the audience. But this isn't one of those movies.

In this case, the message is clear. "The universe has a secret pattern which mankind often misses."

Doubting the clear concept presented by M. Night Shyamalan's in this movie is like saying the viewers of Forbidden Planet are free to assume that Robby was secretly just a man in a suit, Morbius is a lying bastard who killed people, and Altaira is actually a dirty little slut.

Such a misinterpretation of Forbidden Planet's basic concept is ridiculous. The "truth" of any fictional tale lies in the mind of the author. He's the God of that fictional realm, and no one can challenge his definition of the situation or the characters!

I'm sure M. Night Shyamalan was sincere when he presented the audience with the concept that the universe only seems random to us because we can't see the complex patterns.

It's a fascinating concept which offers hope, and it inspires our imagination.

Conversely, the suggestion that it was all just a series of coincidences is sadly unimaginative. It robs us of hope, it steals the heart and soul from this movie, and it reduces the story to a cruel trick played on the audience by a director whose cinematic skill tried to convince us that there was a God . . . when in fact He doesn't really exist!

Please understand, I'm just analyzing this movie's premise from the point of view of a writer and a movie lover. I'm not claiming that God exists in the real world . . . I'm must saying that He supposedly exists in this fantasy world created by M. Night Shyamalan.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Gord Green]

But Bud....My comment above IS exactly what M. Night has said the movie is about.

It asks just that question about divine causality or chance. For Rev.Hess the conclusion is the divine but he comes to that from refinding his faith.

But the point of the film is to ASK that question.

In an interview M.Night says this:
https://www.theringer.com/movies/2020/7/30/21348462/m-night-shyamalan-signs-unbreakable-the-sixth-sense-interview

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"So there’ll be a bunch of ideas, but when I find what the movie’s actually about … you know, the sofa scene in Signs is what the movie is actually about, where he and his brother talk about, “What kind of person are you? Do you believe in things? Or is it all just chance?”

When I understood that that’s what the movie was about, it filled everything. It filled the spaces and gave it canvas to tell the genre of it all. And I think if you see [Signs] off of Unbreakable, as a diary, it was about someone regaining faith in himself, and in the world a little bit, because of where I was.

How much of that explicit faith that God, or a divine power, sends signs—and things aren’t just pure chance—how much of that was biographical for you at the time? Because you’ve dealt with subject matter like that in the past.

Look, I think I have a very strong … I don’t know if we’d call it spirituality. But I’m not religious at all. It wasn’t about endorsing or advocating for any specific religion. It was really more about that sofa scene. I might say, right this second, that it’s almost physics, the idea of energy, and putting things into the world, the universe, and those things are attracted and come back to you.

And if we believe in it, all we’re actually believing is that we have more agency than we truly believe. I still ascribe to that thinking, very much so. So when we think about our minds: Do you see the glasses of water around you to save you at that moment if you’re not open to seeing the glasses of water around you?"
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This is the "sofa" scene M.Night is talking about.

A key moment sees Merrill – fearing the outcome of the invasion – look to his brother for reassurance. Graham – not believing in what he’s saying but wanting to help his sibling – delivers a passionate preacher sermon about the power of faith.

From the script:

“People break down into two groups. When they experience something lucky, group number one sees it as more than luck. They see it as a sign, evidence, that there is someone up there. Group number two sees it as just pure luck. Just a happy turn of chance. I’m sure the people in group number two are looking at those fourteen lights in a very suspicious way.

For them, the situation is a fifty-fifty. Could be bad, could be good. But deep down, they feel that whatever happens, they’re on their own. And that fills them with fear … But there’s a whole lot of people in group number one.

When they see those fourteen lights, they’re looking at a miracle. And deep down, they feel that whatever’s going to happen, there will be someone there to help them. And that fills them with hope.

See what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs, that sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky? Or, look at the question this way: Is it possible that there are no coincidences?”.

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Sounds like a question to me!
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There comes a time, thief, when gold loses its lustre, and the gems cease to sparkle, and the throne room becomes a prison; and all that is left is a father's love for his child.

[Bud Brewster]

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And excellent reply, old friend. I understand your earlier comments much better now. Thank you for being patient with me 'till I figured it out.

I agree completely that whether or not there is a God is a matter of personal opinion . . . in the real world.

But here's where we may be misunderstanding each other.

[Gord Green]

But that's not at all what I'm suggesting.

Rev. Hess underwent what is called an epiphany.

It's a moment when you suddenly feel that you understand, or suddenly become conscious of, something that is very important to you.

Generally the term is used to describe scientific breakthrough, religious or philosophical discoveries, but it can apply in any situation in which an enlightening realization allows a problem or situation to be understood from a new and deeper perspective.

The word epiphany originally referred to insight through the divine. Today, this concept is more often used without such connotations, but a popular implication remains that the epiphany is supernatural, as the discovery seems to come suddenly from the outside.

In more general terms, the phrase "religious epiphany" is used when a person realizes their faith, or when they are convinced that an event or happening was really caused by a deity or being of their faith.

His realization of a divine influence was what rekindled his faith not the reverse. It was like Saul on the Damscus road or Constantine and the vision of the Cross ...the events were simultaneous.

I have no doubt that the Rev underwent this epiphany, but just as the nature of epiphanies is personal to the individual it doesn't mean that everyone would have the same result. The "resounding "Yes!"" you talked about is VERY true....for him!

As M. Night stated:

[Bud Brewster]

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Great post! Thanks, Reverend Green. My soul is now at peace.

The only thing we seem to disagree on is that this movie makes it very plain to the audience that all the "coincidences" were caused by an unseen force which guided and assisted the humans in defeating the aliens.

In those scenes, Shyamalan didn't show us what Mel Gibson "thought" all those events meant . . . he showed us what we all were supposed to realize they meant! It was a dramatic revelation which shocked the audience and proved that we'd all gotten our money's worth!

Gord, you continue to feel that the audience is supposed to be free to reject the powerful evidence the film presents in the climax, and that they can consider the question of divine interference as being unresolved!

If that was true, the audience would have left disappointed and cheated by their cinematic experience. I know I would!

My friend, a film's director should not have to explain to the audience what his movie meant to convey. If they don't understand his message, the director did a poor job.

This movie was NOT a story which left the audience wondering how the aliens were defeated.

Viewing this movie in that manner is like watching the climax of Raiders of the Lost Ark and denying that all those gruesome deaths the bad guys suffered were really caused by a vengeful God who was punishing the evil Nazis!

Did YOU doubt what that scene was showing us?

I didn't . . . and I doubt you did either. Ditto for the climax of Signs.
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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)

[Bud Brewster]

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Enjoy this fine video which discusses the plot of the movie and what it says to viewers.


____ SIGNS Analyzed & Explained - Movie Review


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Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)