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bulldogtrekker Space Sector Admiral
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 1024 Location: Columbia,SC
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:22 pm Post subject: Star Trek is Broken-Ideas to Fix It |
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Star Trek is broken -- Here are ideas on how to fix it
by Joseph Dickerson , TrekMovie
. . . Star Trek, like all long-running entertainment properties, has had peaks and valleys. Some very high highs, and very low lows. In my opinion, Star Trek is at (yet another) turning point . . .
http://trekmovie.com/2013/09/01/star-trek-is-broken-here-are-ideas-on-how-to-fix-it/
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You may find that having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting.
It is not logical, but it is often true. - Mr. Spock
Last edited by bulldogtrekker on Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17174 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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I re-read this article, and the heart of the message is right here.
Joseph Dickerson wrote: | Just as the original series broke from convention to tell adult stories, Star Trek needs to once again break from the past and stop being about the Enterprise and crew.
Yes, I know, this might be a scandalous idea to many of you reading this, but think about it: We have had hundreds of episodes and almost a dozen movies about the crew of the Enterprise. We need to look at a new ship, a new crew, and explore new ground. Have a link to the past (maybe a crew member or two), but Star Trek needs to move forward. |
I've been saying that for years. It's all about whether or not the stories are aimed at Trekkers or Trekkies.
Trekkers are people who want to think about the concepts, be challenged by the stories, respect the characters for their depth, and celebrate the optimistic idea that mankind can be better than he currently is.
Trekkies is another word for "groupies". That's where the word came from in the 1960s. They just want eye candy, loud noise, and fast action.
Big difference.
The new Star Trek movies are just perfect . . . for Trekkies. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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ralfy Mission Specialist
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Joined: 23 Sep 2014 Posts: 485
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:23 am Post subject: |
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The franchise had new crew and ships, as seen in Voyager, Deep Space Nine, and Discovery. Some of these shows not only broke from the past, they also broke the past, especially the rest of the new movies, Discovery, and Picard.
If "[h]aving writers such as these working on a big-budget Hollywood screenplay is not the best idea," then there's your problem. As the article puts it, the solution is to make TV shows, which are low-budget, but the latest TV shows are also expensive. For example, I think one season of Discovery had a budget equivalent to that of a Hollywood movie.
With computer graphics, one can now make these shows cheaper, and can even be done independently, as seen in Star Trek Continues. But that's not what franchise holders want: rather, they want to maximize their returns, and that means multiple combinations of big-budgeted movies and TV shows until the franchise is run to the ground. And Star Trek isn't alone in this, as similar has been taking place for the Star Wars, Alien, Mad Max, and other franchises. |
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Morbius Astral Engineer
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Joined: 25 Oct 2014 Posts: 206
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I’m always interested in something new in a movie. For example, the car chase in Bullitt, the opening scene in Star Wars, the dinos in Jurassic Park, the face grabber chest buster in Alien, Robby Robot, the first Mad Max, Jaws, Terminator, and a few more.
But with CGI always getting better I’m not expecting any watershed moments. But I do have an idea for the future. Imagine that you can actually insert yourself into a movie. The movie would be not only CGI but also AI. So, you could login and for example be a member of the crew with Capt. Kirk. You could actually interact with him on the bridge of the Enterprise and the AI could direct the CGI and you could watch yourself on the big screen or little screen as Kirk tells you how your knowledge of the unknown alien saved the ship and even record the episode to show your friends. This might seem far-fetched now, but who knows? |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17174 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:35 am Post subject: |
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That is a brilliant idea, sir, and I have no doubt it will become a reality — probably sooner than we realize!
I'm sure there are fellow Trekkers who won't agree with me when I state that Star Trek: Discover, Star Trek: Picard, and Star Trek: Strange New Words are as good as any series in the franchise — and in some ways they're better!
I don't just mean the amazing sets and special effects. The stories and the characters are, in my opinion, designed to connect directly to their TOS roots.
I've seen three seasons of Discovery, one season of Picard, and five episodes of Strange New Worlds. Their extremely enjoyable — despite the fact that an old Star Fleet veteran like me has to adjust to a number changes in key elements that were introduced in TOS.
For example, in Strange New Worlds we see T'Pring propose to Spock . . . and then they have hot premarital sex without a Pon Farr insight!
Another change (but not as drastic) is the look of Nurse Chapel (played by Miss Jess Bush), who serves on Captain Pike's Enterprise.
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She's an attractive silver-haired blond in a tight white uniform. There's nothing wrong with this change of course, but it's certainly a reminder that "this ain't your grandfather's Star Trek!"
At least her hair-do isn't a phony wig like Majel Barrett's. But Miss Bush looks like she washed her hair and forgot to dry it!
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I must admit that the portrayal of Spock by Ethan Peck certainly can't be faulted for being an imitation of Leonard Nimoy.
In fact, he makes little effort to appear Vulcan at all! His performance seems to consist of practicing his "poker face" all the time.
~ Spock, holding four Aces . . ._
Leonard Nimoy had a remarkable way of rarely showing his emotions while clearly showing his thought processes. The result was a character we admired for being intelligent while keeping his cool.
Mr. Peck, on the other hand, acts like he's just a stand-in for a rehearsal, reading the character's lines so the other actors can act off of him.
Maybe he'll improve in subsequent episodes.
On a positive note, Anson Mount's version of Capt. Christopher Pike stands shoulder-to-shoulder with Shatner's Capt. Kirk — brilliant, brave, cocky, witty, and confident as hell.
He's more fun than a barrel of tribbles!
And finally . . . well, the bridge set just plain sucks.
The damn thing has so many "neon accent lights" that it's hard to make out the shape of the bridge without wearing polarized glasses!
And if you think THAT'S distracting, wait 'till they go to Red Alert. All the neon turns crimson, like a 23rd century brothel.
At that point, the bridge suddenly bears a strong resemblance to the Hong Kong skyline at night!
Don't get me wrong, guys. I love the series. I just wish they hadn't gone overboard with certain "modifications" to TOS. _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:26 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Pow Galactic Ambassador
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Joined: 27 Sep 2014 Posts: 3479 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that bridge has waaaay too much stuff going on. It's supposed to dazzle fans, but for me its far too busy and over the top. Distracting.
There's something to be said for a simpler, cleaner bridge design that can be at once both impressive and easy to follow.
Set designers can create stunning sets like never before. However, they can get so carried away with their fantastic tools, materials, and budgets that they actually overwhelm the audience by having a zillion details and functions going on. Such sets can take away from the actors and storyline by being so figuratively loud and in your face.
Flashier is not always better. |
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ralfy Mission Specialist
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Joined: 23 Sep 2014 Posts: 485
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Morbius Astral Engineer
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Joined: 25 Oct 2014 Posts: 206
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:58 am Post subject: |
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No fraken way! |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17174 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, yes, welcome to the 21st century gentlemen!
We've made tremendous strides in both technology and profanity!
Now the average citizen can take out his hi-tech smart phone and instantly send important message to other people . . . like this one.
WTF ARE YOU DOING, A**HL? GTFO OF MY LIFE, DMIT. I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU, SO JUST STFU!! _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958)
Last edited by Bud Brewster on Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ralfy Mission Specialist
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Joined: 23 Sep 2014 Posts: 485
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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I think the point is that what we're seeing is a massive retcon. From Wiki,
Quote: | Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short,[2][3] is a literary device in which established diegetic facts in the plot of a fictional work (those established through the narrative itself) are adjusted, ignored, supplemented, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which recontextualizes or breaks continuity with the former.[4] |
That means those who have seen many of the earlier works in the franchise know that the show depicted a future where human beings generally respected the dead and disdained the foul mouth cultures and barbarism of the late twentieth and early twentieth centuries. In addition, they also valued canonical works from the past (recall many references to Data, Picard, Kirk, and Spock reading or referring to Shakespeare, Melville, etc.), were curious to study the best that many alien races could offer, had little time for popular culture (except for funny references to hippie guest stars), and so on.
In short, not only did human technology evolve, so did the human condition: people now aspired to greater things, and that did not necessarily mean acquisition of wealth or power over others but a more profound understanding of not only what it means to be human but to be part of a universe with an incredible diversity of life.
If any, I think that's what made the franchise so appealing to fans: even with the clunky special effects, it spoke to audiences (including children and teens) not only as adults but as adults who need to have even bigger dreams of the future, whether or not they will even witness it. And I think Roddenberry thought the same.
But the new shows appear to pander to the baser instincts of viewers: they show them spectacle without depth and brings in the foul-mouthed, shallow views of the present to attract viewers who most likely know little or nothing about past works in the franchise and likely wouldn't care.
That's why the crew members of the Discovery sound like teens, perversion abounds, some of the older ones in Picards are drunkards, violence is gratuitous, diversity is forced, and so on. It's like a regular TV show or movie today skinned with sci-fi spectacle.
Not that I don't mind such content. It's just there are many other franchises where that can be done. Why change the very identity of this one? |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17174 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Ralfy, ya got me.
Your comment is extremely well written. I salute you, sir.
I'm forced to concede your points about what made the original shows worthwhile, and about how the new shows have abandoned many of the finer elements of the originals.
My praise for the new series was based on the purely science fiction story elements, which are quite good — but they don't excuse the shameful way these new series (and many other series on TV today) have embraced a culture far different from the one in which I grew up.
Sadly, I no long have the optimistic faith that, as time goes by, mankind will improve his basic nature, or that our civilization will progress towards a bright, utopian future.
That revelation saddens me greatly.
Having made that gloomy confession, the new Star Trek shows actually do portray a glittering, technology-rich future, and they boldly defend the principles of both Star Fleet and the United Federation of Planets.
I've been very impressed with that aspect of the all three new series. In spite of their many failings, they do carry on some of the important Star trek traditions.
For that reason, I hope to continue enjoying these series, even though I'm not as confident that mankind will ever achieve anything like what we've seen in any of the Star Trek series. ![Sad](images/smiles/icon_sad.gif) _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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ralfy Mission Specialist
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Joined: 23 Sep 2014 Posts: 485
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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In case anyone's interested, there's a video that might explain why this is taking place:
"Why Netflix Is Collapsing: The Coming Netflix Crisis"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKX5PW2cZwo&disable_polymer=true
TL:DR -
Netflix is losing thousand of subscribers a month because they are getting turned off by the "wokeness" of shows: underage girls doing sexy dances, forced depictions of homosexuality and diversity, gratuitious violence, and so on.
One would like to blame "social justice warriors" in the company or customers who complain frequently in social media, but it appears that there's another reason why this is going on:
Netflix has a thin profit margin because it needs to make exclusive deals with producers and make its own content, so it needs continuous investments.
Most of the investments in the U.S. come from only a few investment managers, and the biggest is BlackRock: it manages $10 trillion in assets, or a third of the total assets of the whole U.S. That also means many companies that need investors (not only Netflix but sporting goods companies and more) will have to rely on BlackRock and its competitors.
Now, the head of BlackRock is Larry Fink, and several years ago he stated that the company will mostly invest in companies that are socially engaged: they promote social justice, or support for those who are oppressed, including peope of different genders and of color, and causes that affect the poorest, including climate change mitigation.
In order to do find out which companies do that, BlackRock uses a program called Alladin, which measures the ESG scores of companies. The higher the score, the better.
That's why Netflix, the NFL, Disney, the U.S. Army, Nike, and many other companies and organizations have been coming up with content or ads that depict freedom in terms of gender diversity, race, etc. If they don't, they won't receive a lot of investment funding.
Finally, why are rich people and powerful CEOs doing this? It's probably because they've come to realize that money isn't everything, and they need to make a socially relevant impact on society. That means funding poverty amelioration in many countries, health care, and in richer ones, support for various minorities, as well as making companies do the same.
But the cost of doing this includes customers and viewers turned off by forced diversity. |
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Morbius Astral Engineer
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Joined: 25 Oct 2014 Posts: 206
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:37 am Post subject: |
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I always thought that this obsession with wokeness was part of a grand scheme. I understand the concept which in my opinion I would prefer to state it as simply greater tolerance for different individuals. In the long run I hope it will be a benefit to society. What I find somewhat irritating is that it’s crammed down the public’s throat at every opportunity, every commercial and every TV show. Ultimately the hope is that there will be a positive affect on society for the better. But only time can tell on this account.
What concerns me more is the influx of fentanyl coming through the open border. It’s bad enough that Americans seem to have an unquenchable thirst for drugs, but now with fentanyl added to the equation it’s even worse. What is China doing? What do they hope to accomplish by pumping fentanyl through Mexico through our open border into the hands of susceptible American kids and adults?
So, while society becomes more tolerant what is the overall effect of so many drugs pumped into the population. How does that affect society? Certainly, only in a deleterious way. Is this part of a plan to set up America for failure? Will our society eventually crumble in the same way drug addicts succumb? Is this the plan of China to eventually take over America? So, rather than wokeness, the open border, China, and America’s unquenchable thirst for drugs are a greater concern to me. Whatever happened to this is your brain (fried egg) on drugs? Has the war on drugs been supplanted by wokeness? If so, we are failing to see the forest for the trees. |
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Bud Brewster Galactic Fleet Admiral (site admin)
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 17174 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Gentlemen, you've given us quite a lot to think about.
I know that other message boards similar to All Sci-Fi tend to discourage discussions about politics and social issues, and some of them strictly prohibit it.
However, All Sci-Fi is dedicated to intelligent discusses by informed members. Therefore, I'm grateful to you both for sharing the information above.
Bud _________________ ____________
Is there no man on Earth who has the wisdom and innocence of a child?
~ The Space Children (1958) |
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Morbius Astral Engineer
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Joined: 25 Oct 2014 Posts: 206
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Star trek was a social message besides Sci-Fi entertainment, and I liked it but saw (something buried in the rhetoric) it coming when "Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no MAN (now the pc no one) has gone before"!
Having worked in the fed gov as a scientist and supervisor, I attended one EEO meeting in particular (which formed a lasting impression(on me) of the NWO coming) where I was told that as a white supervisor I would become extinct, a forebodance of what has been born out. I could detail the progression, (70s to current) but I'll make it short, (it became a fed supervisor requirement to hire minorities regardless of qualification) questionable affirmative action surfers now permeate Washington. Please Bud feel free to delete this post if you deem it inappropriate, but the world now is littered with social comment and all sides need expression. Maybe balance will eventually rise to the top. |
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